Playstation 5 Catch-All

Like Higgledy said, I'm a sucker for Sony exclusives. With that in mind, and if I can continue to play my PS4 digital library on the PS5, getting one is a no brainer. That said, I will most likely wait for a year or two after release before getting it, just like I did with the PS4 (I got a slim). Whatever the launch price is, it will be too expensive for me, so I will wait. Besides, there are still tons of PS4 games I want to get to, so I feel no rush whatsoever.

Fedaykin wrote:

I just finished The Frozen Wilds and am about to start a NG+ on Ultra hard of Horizon finally and I'm giddy just like the first time I played it two years ago. This game still impresses me, I can't imagine what the sequel on the PS5 will do but I am so ready for it.

I'm excited for the first trailer let alone the actual game.

I keep imagining packs of Robo-velociraptors.

Fastmav347 wrote:

While BC would be super nice to have in the early months of the console cycle, I can hardly see myself putting in a PS4 game into my PS5 unless it's for one of our clubs here. The moment I got my PS4 my PS3 immediately began collecting dust, regardless of how man unplayed games I had for it.

For peace of mind it would be nice to see your entire PS4 digital library transfer over to PS5, but I don't think its really a deal breaker. Just look at the Switch vs Wii U

I still have my PS3 hooked up, but it has been a while since I turned it on. Part of that is where it's located in the house.

Wii U to Switch is a different ball game. The Wii U bombed so they re-released the numerous amazing games it had. The form factor was completely different between the two and they merged their home console and handheld devices. Yes, it sucked to lose all my 3DS and Wii U digital games, but thankfully lost Wii U digital games were multiplatform (ie. indies) or were re-released (not that I re-bought them though). That said, I still have my Wii U because Xenoblade Chronicles X is on it and nowhere else. Plus I'm also able to use it as a Wii to play Galaxy and 3D World.

So, I'd looooooove to be able to play my Wii U and Wii games on my Switch, but I get that it didn't happen because the Switch is a whole new thing. The Gamcube-Wii-WiiU all shared similar innards and were easy to transfer games from one to another. I mean, the Wii games on Wii U just down clocked the CPU to trick it into the same speed as a Wii. That's how much lineage the Wii U carried forward.

But with the Switch its a whole new architecture and they've made some statements to the effect that this will be the new way forward and it'll be more like upgrading your phone than buying a new console. So, the hope is that your digital purchases will follow you, all united under your Nintendo account.

The same thing is happening with the PS4 and PS5. We've all bought a TON more digital games than we did a decade ago and Microsoft is leading the charge on making sure they know you can play your 360 games on their newer systems. It's an actual selling point, if a minor one to most.

Do "regular" consumers care about BC? I highly doubt it. But for those of us highly invested in the ecosystems, BC is a huge selling point even if most people don't use it. Microsoft is eating Sony alive because of it, just like Sony took Microsoft to task after they wouldn't allow used games or sharing or whatever. Sony isn't going to let them win that war without a fight. The PS5 is similar to the PS4 enough that BC is a thing they can do without a ton of investment, unlike the PS3 to PS4 which would've required a PS3 chipset inside the PS4.

I find it interesting you mention putting a PS4 disc in your PS5. I don't even think of it that way. I think of it as having my PS4 games on the PS5, mingling in the menus and playing them just like my PS5 games. I have maaaaaaaaaaany unplayed PS4 games, in large part to having a second child in the past couple of years. It's why I still have my 3DS, PS3 and Wii U. There are a few key experiences I will still play that I can't replicate elsewhere (either emulator or re-release). Until I can play them somewhere else, I won't get rid of those machines. I don't, however, feel that way about the PS4 so much because SO many titles are multiplatform, specifically PC. Of course, I'm not big into Sony proper titles, unlike many. I don't care one iota if I never play Days Gone, ya know? Perhaps once all games are on PSNow BC via the console itself will stop being a thing, but not everything is, yet. That's clearly the future folks think we're heading toward.

Sorry for the wall of text.

Edit: cces said it all for me in less text. That's a strange role reversal. Lol

Shadout wrote:

I would guess the statistics on how much people use backward compatibility is not particularly good, since so few consoles have it. Isn't it pretty much only Wii U that had it from the start in modern time?
In the long run backward compatibility isnt particularly useful, as people move unto newer games. But at release, when a new console has nearly no games, it seems like being able to play your old games on it, is a nice bonus. Allows you to get rid of the old console.
Then there are the people who did not own the previous console, who are suddenly able to get two consoles in one. Pretty decent back catalogue on PS4 now.

PS3 could play PS2 games until they cut it for costs.

Wii could play GameCube games.

3DS could play DS games.

PS2 could play PS1 games.

Ouya could play vaporware.

garion333 wrote:

Do "regular" consumers care about BC? I highly doubt it. But for those of us highly invested in the ecosystems, BC is a huge selling point even if most people don't use it. Microsoft is eating Sony alive because of it, just like Sony took Microsoft to task after they wouldn't allow used games or sharing or whatever. Sony isn't going to let them win that war without a fight. The PS5 is similar to the PS4 enough that BC is a thing they can do without a ton of investment, unlike the PS3 to PS4 which would've required a PS3 chipset inside the PS4.

While I agree with most of this, I don't think MS is eating Sony alive in terms of sales, maybe PR stand point for those that follow the gaming press and websites, but not average joes.
I am probably the opposite then you on the exclusives, I am interested in almost EVERYTHING that Sony releases while MS has almost nothing that I am interested in, and the one thing they do have I can play on my PC.

I find it interesting you mention putting a PS4 disc in your PS5. I don't even think of it that way. I think of it as having my PS4 games on the PS5, mingling in the menus and playing them just like my PS5 games. I have maaaaaaaaaaany unplayed PS4 games, in large part to having a second child in the past couple of years. It's why I still have my 3DS, PS3 and Wii U. There are a few key experiences I will still play that I can't replicate elsewhere (either emulator or re-release). Until I can play them somewhere else, I won't get rid of those machines.

I may have worded that statement incorrectly. I'm pretty much in the same boat as you (except I'm on the 4th child now)
I also still have all my old consoles all the way down to N64. (Only thing I ditched is my PS1 as PS2 and 3 can do that job perfectly)

Fastmav347 wrote:
garion333 wrote:

Do "regular" consumers care about BC? I highly doubt it. But for those of us highly invested in the ecosystems, BC is a huge selling point even if most people don't use it. Microsoft is eating Sony alive because of it, just like Sony took Microsoft to task after they wouldn't allow used games or sharing or whatever. Sony isn't going to let them win that war without a fight. The PS5 is similar to the PS4 enough that BC is a thing they can do without a ton of investment, unlike the PS3 to PS4 which would've required a PS3 chipset inside the PS4.

While I agree with most of this, I don't think MS is eating Sony alive in terms of sales, maybe PR stand point for those that follow the gaming press and websites, but not average joes.
I am probably the opposite then you on the exclusives, I am interested in almost EVERYTHING that Sony releases while MS has almost nothing that I am interested in, and the one thing they do have I can play on my PC.

All I meant was PR. Sales don't matter, it's the PR push for the next set of consoles that matters. The One flubbed because Microsoft screwed up the messaging. Sony isn't going to let that happen with the PS5 (see: PSNow price cut).

Microsoft doesn't have any exclusives lol. I actually like quite a number of Sony exclusives, but they're rarely from Sony studios. Bloodborne and Until Dawn being probably the only "must plays" (for me) I can't get anywhere else. Then again, we'll see what turns up with all the devs Microsoft has been buying.

As long as Japanese companies keep making the Switch be the Vita 2.0, I'm basically happy to have a Switch and nothing else, if I'm completely honest. I enjoy plenty of PS4 games, but I could probably live my life on Switch. And maaaaaaaaaybe PC, either through Steam and whatnot or Stadia, if it works.

Whenever backwards compatibility is brought up, I always think of that scene from “console wars” where the Sega executive brags about how making the Sega Genesis backwards compatible with a plug-in adapter was the smartest thing they ever did, even though the actual plug-in adapter was a huge bomb that hardly sold any copies, because the mere fact that it existed soothed the concerns of tons of people into buying their new system.

[quote="garion333"]

Fastmav347 wrote:

All I meant was PR. Sales don't matter, it's the PR push for the next set of consoles that matters...

I strongly encourage you not to run your own company.

Evan E wrote:
garion333 wrote:

All I meant was PR. Sales don't matter, it's the PR push for the next set of consoles that matters...

I strongly encourage you not to run your own company.

In case this isn't a gag reply, I think what he meant to say was the current marketshare of the comparable systems do not matter. After all, Xbox 360 had dominated the PS3. Did the PS3 get some traction towards the end of the generation? Sure thing, but at launch, you won't become the dominant platform without strong PR. This was also true back when you consider the PS2 dominated the Xbox and GameCube, and yet the Xbox 360 did a superior job because "599 US dollars" and "Attack its weakpoint for massive damage" failed to sell the PS3.

Right now, Microsoft's improving with GamePass, but I'm curious how well that really will do to sell systems, especially since the GamePass is also available on PC. Microsoft had a promotional video at E3 that didn't really say much, and Sony has very few real details, just a couple of article exclusives that, rumor has it, are only announced because Wired had some leaked documentation and managed to score an exclusive with Sony to eke out the information more slowly.

The first real reveal of both systems is going to be what really sticks in people's minds for a while, and even then, it could never go away. Remember how long "Xbox only has Halo" stuck around? Cripes, they kind of wound right back there with the Xbox One, didn't they? Microsoft knows they can't survive off of GamePass alone, hence buying up all those exclusives.

The greater question is, does being a web forum full of hobbyist gamers make us a good representation of how successful a service like GamePass can actually be? Is it truly a threat to Sony? We'll have to wait and see to find out.

I'm having trouble filtering: some of allz y'allz keep talking about a Horizon: ZD 2. Is that in a "surely, they must be working on one" sense or the "they actually confirmed they're working on one" sense?

When asked about it Guerrilla generally reply with, “we can’t say but...” Which is ‘of course we are’ without actually coming out with those words. Also an actress who is, presumably, involved in the second game, slipped and said, “HZD2 is going to Blow peoples minds!” Reading between the lines: Robo-velociraptors.

SpacePPoliceman wrote:

I'm having trouble filtering: some of allz y'allz keep talking about a Horizon: ZD 2. Is that in a "surely, they must be working on one" sense or the "they actually confirmed they're working on one" sense?

Higgledy wrote:

Also and actress who is, presumably, involved in the second game, slipped and said, “HZD2 is going to Blow peoples minds!” Reading between the lines: Robo-velociraptors.

That was Janina Gavankar. So no, it hasn't been officially announced, but it's a safe bet, especially considering it broke 10 million in sales back earlier this year.

Right, roger, I remember Janina did that now. Just making sure I didn't miss something I'd be super excited for. And the entire market would be excited for, too, because clearly my thoughts, feelings, tastes, and experiences are universal and thus relevant.

Same with Spider-Man 2. No official announcement but like 9 million sold in 2018, plus the story teased a sequel with Goblin. Sequel is definitely happening.

Stele wrote:

Same with Spider-Man 2. No official announcement but like 9 million sold in 2018, plus the story teased a sequel with Goblin. Sequel is definitely happening.

Spider-man was up to 13 million as of July, and God of War also broke 10 million this year. All these games getting sequels, ya'll.

Hidetaka Miyazaki states that his favorite game he worked on is Bloodborne - and adds that making Bloodborne 2 is not up to him

Damnit, Sony! Throw some money at this man. Bloodborne is 4 years old. It's sequel time!

PS4 had a pretty dam good life cycle, a lot of amazing games came out. What really would seal the deal with PS5, if they had Rocket League 2 as a launch title.

If they pair it with FF7 Remake Episode 2, that's when I'll buy it.

I am also really excited to see what PSVR can do on this thing. I read somewhere that it will be compatible with PS5 which I hope is true. I also really hope they are working on a next gen version although I’m sure that will be years away. I am definitely ready for a new shiny console though and PS5 sounds pretty fantastic!

As far as console wars go, MS still has nothing of interest for exclusives unless you are just a die hard fan for Halo. And like Gears of War, that series has gotten long in the tooth and I don’t think will sell many systems. All of their new studios have got to be years away from getting decent games out and they are all very limited (like Playground only doing driving games) or less than AAA. For all of the good will MS has tried to generate, Sony will still own console gaming unless they screw something up. But MS will still have their smaller niche to fill and will at least keep Sony honest.

So the Lost Soul Aside dev released some new concept artwork to confirm development on the game is still going. It's a stylish action title that started turning some heads maybe... four or five years ago? Perhaps six? when its original lone developer teased some gameplay footage. It's been given some financial backing in China, and Sony has even begun contributing to its development, and last I knew they had around 5 or 6 people working on it.

Nonetheless, for such a small team, the game looks impressive. If there's anything that could get me considering a PS5 day one, it would be news of this game moving to be a platform exclusive to the next generation.

I've little excitement for the hardware. Yet. But Sony do put out amazing exclusives.

I tend to toggle rumble off more than on for controllers these days. Wrist problems. Battery life. The speaker on the DualShock4 was disabled soon after purchase. It's irritating and irrelevant. I'm either utilizing television speakers, or headphones. I dictate volume, and mix. A secondary sound source, such as this, distracts and can clash with levels. The touchpad at least became a multifunctional boon depending on directional swipes.

Better download speeds would be much welcomed after two generations of the worst handicap from their consoles.

** EDIT **

I'm quite happy (after going back over the news) to learn of a more energy efficient console, and the ability to choose which segments of a game to install. More affordable running costs. Faster installs to get playing sooner. These are good hardware evolutions. Much like the removal of the Sony throttle on download speeds.

Still unsure how I feel concerning haptic triggers. Requiring more force, and varying force, amidst rumble, to activate triggers will only handicap the experience for those who rely on hair trigger activation, minus rumble. It's probably customizable. I hope.

I never use the rumble function in the PS controllers. It's just too annoying and it's one less thing draining the battery.
I have a feeling I'll do the same for the haptic feedback.

jrralls wrote:

What is it about the PS3 that makes it so hard to emulate?

Historically, to emulate a machine properly, you needed about ten times as much CPU power as the target system. Simulating a foreign architecture with general purpose instructions on a different kind of CPU is very slow, and requires a great deal of overhead. Not only does the program have to manually decode the instructions (which is a near-instant process with dedicated hardware) and maintain the internal state of the virtual CPU, it also has to track all the various peripherals and their exact state at any given time, and then reproduce that state to the host system. This is a very, very great deal of work, which is why the 10x speed increase was a rough rule of thumb.

Unfortunately, CPU manufacturers have stopped giving us faster CPUs; they hit a wall at around 4GHz, and they hit it very, very hard. Pushing past that point has been very slow and very painful. The PS3 was clocked at 3.2GHz, so there's some slop there, but it's a widely multicore chip, with a bunch of very simple, very fast cores. There's one main, full PowerPC core, and then seven tiny CPUs, called SPEs. Each SPE is very simple, but extremely fast at what it does. The net effect was that the PS3 was an absolute monster at matrix math operations, which are used a lot for generating graphic details. It was exceedingly difficult to program well, but in the hands of a master programmer could be coaxed into accomplishing ridiculous feats for the time period in which it shipped. In short, it punched way, way out of its weight class.

The PS4 was a major change; it used multiple, slow general-purpose x86 (PC-style) cores. This meant it was good at running branchy code, which is more what you see in standard programming, particularly in AI-oriented tasks, but each core doesn't have anywhere near as much grunt for matrix math operations. A PS4 core hasn't got a prayer of keeping up with an SPE in its area of strength; it can do a lot more than an SPE, but is massively outmuscled by its predecessor for some specific types of raw computation.

Effectively, this means that emulating a PS3 on a PS4 is impossible. They've come up with lots of tricks since the old "10x" saw was invented, meaning that they've been able to substantially narrow the performance boost required to emulate an alien system, but there's not a prayer of emulating a faster system with a slower one in real time.

Depending on how they clock the CPUs in the PS5, and how many they have, they might for the first time be pretty close to neck-and-neck for matrix math grunt, so emulation of the PS3 might finally be possible, but it would still be an immense amount of work. Sony could, perhaps, take the work done in RPCS3 and build on it, but getting it up to shipping quality would cost a bundle, and depending on the licensing, they might be forced to release their code if they went that way. They would probably be very unwilling to do this, so they might have to start from scratch with a new emulation engine. Considering that PS3 games probably don't impact their sales much anymore, I can't imagine they'd bother.

Rather, individual game developers may or may not port their games forward to the newer machines. We've seen a lot of that over the last few years, and I suspect that will be the only way to play PS3 games on a PS5. If the PS5 were open to hobbyists, you might see emulators, but on a closed system like that, ports are probably going to be the only option.

I hope we get some good headphone choices.

Malor wrote:
jrralls wrote:

What is it about the PS3 that makes it so hard to emulate?

Historically, to emulate a machine properly,...

Wow that was a really good explanation. Thank you!

A lot of my PS3 digital games are PS1/2 classics. Those should be easy to keep working, right?

Didn't they used to have haptic feedback triggers in the PS3? I thought the xbox 360 did and the Xbox one controller improved on it. I didn't realize it was missing from the PS4 until I just read that now. I guess that makes it not a big deal to me.

I can't get faster downloads and load times soon enough though. Bring it on!

Haptic triggers on the PS3? Don't think so. It had rumble, but not haptic feedback on the triggers themselves (those slippery little devils on the Sixaxis and DualShock3 were the worst).

I believe the Xbox One was the first to have them for console.

Huh, just looked it up and it appears you're right. Only game I ever really noticed it on was Forza, for the different surface types, anyways.

Which is much as what I'd expect for the PS5 too. Racing games will add it and probably no one else.

Someone at IGN suggested there could be a Bloodborne remaster. I feel like I only just played that game and I had zero problem with the quality of the graphics so it feels odd but it would be a good excuse to play through the game again.