NFL 2019: Week 2

Need to amend that gif with a small Nick Foles and make that 9 Super Bowl Rings.. (truly scary)

LeapingGnome wrote:
Rat Boy wrote:

IMAGE(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EErH7oQXkAEwbIU?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)

Why is he wearing a Raven's uniform?

Whatchabeensmokin?

garion333 wrote:
LeapingGnome wrote:
Rat Boy wrote:

IMAGE(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EErH7oQXkAEwbIU?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)

Why is he wearing a Raven's uniform?

Whatchabeensmokin?

Just a joke about how the uniform is purple because of whatever lighting or photoshop they used. It is definitely not Giants blue.

Need time to process!!

I've been mulling a thing for about two years now, and Rat Boy's .gif has spurred me to say it publicly.

"Does Eli Manning get in to the Hall of Fame?"

I am a Giants fan, so - on a purely emotional level - I'd like to see him get in. And I think his two Super Bowl wins help overcome some of his less-than-great career stats (such as TD/Int).

However, it feels like the benchmark for QBs is rising steadily each year; partly because of the increased emphasis on the passing game, partly because of the longevity of QB, partly because of the improvement in playing surfaces, partly because of Tom Brady alone!

So two further questions:

Will a non-SB winning QB ever get in to the Hall of Fame again?
Will a single SB win be enough to put Brees and Rodgers in? Personally, I can see Rodgers not getting in.

Gregg Easterbrook always argued that too many QBs were 'enshrined' and I always agreed with that.

Linked to this, after Frank Gore and Adrian Peterson put on the yellow jacket, does another running back ever get in.

Brees and Rodgers are both locks. That there's even a thought they may not is staggering to me.

I think a better question is: Will Matt Ryan get into HoF? I think not.

Edit: To answer your initial question I think it will be very difficult for Eli to get in. His only positive is his two Super Bowl wins. There is nothing else he can bank on.

garion333 wrote:

Brees and Rodgers are both locks. That there's even a thought they may not is staggering to me.

Yup. First ballot.

Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Roethlisberger.

Then QB enshrinement activity will slow down for a while, with just one or two trickling in, until the 2040 class when Garoppolo, Carr, Minshew, and $wag are all inducted.

Depending on how things line up I can see Ben not being a 1st ballot.

$wag is def 1st ballot. The rest,

garion333 wrote:

I think a better question is: Will Matt Ryan get into HoF? I think not.

Nope. He's Boomer Esiason.

Edit: To answer your initial question I think it will be very difficult for Eli to get in. His only positive is his two Super Bowl wins. There is nothing else he can bank on.

Eli is Ken Stabler but without an Al Davis to push his candidacy through.

I have a feeling that the NFL in general would very much push the Manning aspect. It's a big selling and marketing point for them.

No on Manning. Yes on Legion's four. After that, Mahomes is trending that way, but he'll need a few rings first.

Meanwhile, I watched the sitcom that ESPN aired in place of MNF. Mayfield was ... not good? Myles Garrett, tho, was beastly.

BREAKING: Looks like Cam Newton will be out for a while. Apparently his foot is more f**ked up than anyone in Charlotte cared to admit.

After watching the Amazon series in which Ron Rivera downplayed Cam's shoulder injury for weeks, my reaction to Riverboat's growling last week about THE FOOT'S NOT THE PROBLEM led me to think, Yep, it's the foot.

It explains a lot.

Update: Maybe not out; more like day to day. Which could me out. Or the start of the Kyle ("Not Josh") Allen era. Who knows?

Eli Manning should completely get into the Hall of Fame.

Wait . . . people mean by buying a ticket to see the exhibits, right?

Football Outsiders passing DYAR, Class of 2004 QBs

Manning: 0 seasons in top 5, 4 seasons in top 10
Rivers: 6 seasons in top 5, 10 seasons in top 10
Roethlisberger: 4 seasons in top 5 (No. 1 2014), 10 seasons in top 10

Agree Brady, Rodgers, Brees, and Asshat Roethlesberger are first ballot. Nobody else currently in the NFL as a QB has a really high shot; Rivers is statistically great, but lack of playoff success probably dooms him. Ryan hasn't had enough moments, Cam is broken, Luck retired early.

MilkmanDanimal wrote:

Agree Brady, Rodgers, Brees, and Asshat Roethlesberger are first ballot. Nobody else currently in the NFL as a QB has a really high shot; Rivers is statistically great, but lack of playoff success probably dooms him. Ryan hasn't had enough moments, Cam is broken, Luck retired early.

Rivers might get in the way his fellow Charger Dan Fouts did, but not a certainty. Hard to ignore the drop in Rivers' numbers in playoff games, but that's exactly what Fouts looked like too.

The guy I think has the best chance of being a Hall of Fame QB after that wave goes in is Russell Wilson. 5 Pro Bowls in 8 seasons, 8-5 playoff record with two SB appearances and one ring. If his career doesn't fall off a cliff right now, he's probably on his way.

*Legion* wrote:
MilkmanDanimal wrote:

Agree Brady, Rodgers, Brees, and Asshat Roethlesberger are first ballot. Nobody else currently in the NFL as a QB has a really high shot; Rivers is statistically great, but lack of playoff success probably dooms him. Ryan hasn't had enough moments, Cam is broken, Luck retired early.

Rivers might get in the way his fellow Charger Dan Fouts did, but not a certainty. Hard to ignore the drop in Rivers' numbers in playoff games, but that's exactly what Fouts looked like too.

The guy I think has the best chance of being a Hall of Fame QB after that wave goes in is Russell Wilson. 5 Pro Bowls in 8 seasons, 8-5 playoff record with two SB appearances and one ring. If his career doesn't fall off a cliff right now, he's probably on his way.

Wilson is a solid choice who I didn't list because reasons.

I don't think Rivers gets the Fouts treatment; Fouts was an outlier in terms of being pass-crazy at a time when the league was still transitioning out of the "mug the WRs and run for three yards" era. Fouts averaged above 300 yards/game for two years, and just shy of that two other years, and that was 1980-1983. That's when I got into football initially, and I rooted for the Chargers just because they were so damn fun every time they happened to be on. Checking PFR, you know who never even once averaged 300 yards/game? Joe Montana. Or John Elway. Or Jim Kelly. Fouts led the league in yards/game 7 out of 8 years, the only blip in that being Marino's rookie season. Fouts didn't win a Super Bowl, but he was a really big outlier in terms of his passing productivity.

Elway sucked for a long time.

Kind of like how he is in his current job.

Elway was on some bad teams, but I think he was pretty good throughout his career.

And comparing the stats of previous eras just gets silly. Mahomes, for instance, has now thrown as many 4 TD games in his 19 starts as Joe Montana did in his entire career of 164 starts.

This era is video game football compared to the 80’s and most of the 90’s.

TheGameguru wrote:

This era is video game football compared to the 80’s and most of the 90’s.

TheGameguru wrote:

This era is video game football compared to the 80’s and most of the 90’s.

Stats really need to be expressed as their distance from the mean average in which they were accumulated. Or probably something more advanced than just mean average. Whatever it would be that most accurately represents "this is the average performance at this time, and this is how far this player's performance was above/below that".

*Legion* wrote:
TheGameguru wrote:

This era is video game football compared to the 80’s and most of the 90’s.

Stats really need to be expressed as their distance from the mean average in which they were accumulated. Or probably something more advanced than just mean average. Whatever it would be that most accurately represents "this is the average performance at this time, and this is how far this player's performance was above/below that".

If they could only measure performance in the form of, I dunno, a Defense-Adjusted Value Over Average, or maybe even Defense-Adjusted Yards Above Replacement. If only.

MilkmanDanimal wrote:
*Legion* wrote:
TheGameguru wrote:

This era is video game football compared to the 80’s and most of the 90’s.

Stats really need to be expressed as their distance from the mean average in which they were accumulated. Or probably something more advanced than just mean average. Whatever it would be that most accurately represents "this is the average performance at this time, and this is how far this player's performance was above/below that".

If they could only measure performance in the form of, I dunno, a Defense-Adjusted Value Over Average, or maybe even Defense-Adjusted Yards Above Replacement. If only.

That's good for overall player value, but I'm also talking about individual, isolated stats. How much is 30 passing TDs? In a year where teams average 20 TD passes, it's a lot. In a year where they average 28 passing TDs, it's only a little above the norm. Discussions should refer to these as a +10 season versus a +2 season instead of the absolute number.

I'm from Baltimore. Elway sucks.

The team he refused to play for didn't even want to stay in Baltimore.

Jayhawker wrote:

The team he refused to play for didn't even want to stay in Baltimore.

I'm pretty sure he's gonna say the Irsay family sucks too.

Well, that’s more than fair.

*Legion* wrote:

Stats really need to be expressed as their distance from the mean average in which they were accumulated. Or probably something more advanced than just mean average. Whatever it would be that most accurately represents "this is the average performance at this time, and this is how far this player's performance was above/below that".

This - I think - was my point about the modern benchmark for QBs.

Rivers is a good example. Presumably when the Hall of Fame voters go in to conclave, they are going to be evaluating him against every QB whose career overlapped his. For example, Kurt Warner at one end, and Patrick Mahomes at the other. If he retires after next season, how will his career stack up when he is eligible in 2025?

Will a 16-year career be the norm for a very good GB (rather than the exception as it was in 80s and 90s)?

The Legend of Gardner Minshew continues to grow

Spoiler:

Two words: Penis Puppets

IMAGE(https://media.pff.com/2019/09/Screen-Shot-2019-09-17-at-9.29.08-AM-768x432.png)

Kush15 wrote:

The Legend of Gardner Minshew continues to grow

Spoiler:

Two words: Penis Puppets

Are the Jags on MNF this year, because I can already tell how they're going to Photoshop his graphics based on what's been going on with Darnold.

Rat Boy wrote:
Kush15 wrote:

The Legend of Gardner Minshew continues to grow

Spoiler:

Two words: Penis Puppets

Are the Jags on MNF this year, because I can already tell how they're going to Photoshop his graphics based on what's been going on with Darnold.

The only thing preventing him from being a true legend is the fact he did not play for the University of South Carolina.