\m/(~_~)\m/ Bring the Metal! \m/(~_~)\m/

Hi, yeah I was a Tool fan from the Opiate days. Prog Metal is my favorite genre.

This album just sucks, imo.

r013nt0 wrote:

Hi, yeah I was a Tool fan from the Opiate days. Prog Metal is my favorite genre.

This album just sucks, imo.

I hear you. I don't like it as much as Lateralus and Aenima, but I like it the same if not a bit more than 10,000 Days and stylistically I see it as a continuation of what they did on that album, just longer songs (which could certainly stand to be shorter).

I'm glad to hear more of the same from Tool, and I'm excited to see how Fear Inoclulum, Pneuma, Invincible, and 7empest fit alongside their other stuff live.

I feel like it *IS* just 10,000 days. B-sides. I don't think a single song (of the ones I listened to) is as good as the absolute worst song on Opiate, Undertow, Aenima or even Lataralus (of which I'm not a huge fan, tbh)

I probably would have liked this album a bit more in the early aughts, to be honest. But the world has moved on. The genre has moved on.

Releasing this album in the same year as Opeth's In Cauda Venenum is like the grimace emoji brought to life. The two thus-far released songs from that album are so far beyond what Tool is offering it's astounding.

If you look back in the thread (don't bother), I was pretty excited for this album pre-release. I'm glad others are enjoying it, because there's no such thing as too much music you enjoy. I'm just disappointed in it.

If you haven't heard the two new Opeth tracks:

It's a little weird, actually, that for all my "please keep your slow moving prog away from me" antics some of my all time favorites are on the drony, slow moving side of things, starting probably with Fields of the Nephilim in the 90s and more recently WitTR. Very few bands manage to push just the right sort of trance inducing for me, I guess... no idea what the secret ingredient is for me, though.

Wolves in the Throne Room is much further on the black metal side of things than the prog side of things, I'd say. Also, one of my all-time favorite bands. I catch 'em live every time they come to Chicago, even if they're just openers for some trash band.

So maybe you just prefer Progressive Black Metal to "vanilla" Progressive Metal.

r013nt0 wrote:

I feel like it *IS* just 10,000 days. B-sides. I don't think a single song (of the ones I listened to) is as good as the absolute worst song on Opiate, Undertow, Aenima or even Lataralus (of which I'm not a huge fan, tbh)

I probably would have liked this album a bit more in the early aughts, to be honest. But the world has moved on. The genre has moved on.

Releasing this album in the same year as Opeth's In Cauda Venenum is like the grimace emoji brought to life. The two thus-far released songs from that album are so far beyond what Tool is offering it's astounding.

If you look back in the thread (don't bother), I was pretty excited for this album pre-release. I'm glad others are enjoying it, because there's no such thing as too much music you enjoy. I'm just disappointed in it.

Ok, you had me at "the genre" (which I'm still trying to figure out...are we talking the ocean of progressive rock/metal subgenres in general because hoo boy that's too big of a bucket) and the world have moved on while Tool's stuck in 2007 and then you brought up as a counterpoint a band who's essentially released the same album over and over again since 2011 (Heritage).

Heritage = Pale Communion = Sorceress = In cauda veneum

Which - again - I am perfectly fine with too! I love post-Watershed Opeth just fine, and I preordered the new album. But to suggest this as a) a departure from anything they've done in the past 8 years or b) an example of a band keeping with a changing times of a genre or c) some sort of objective comparison to Tool is a bit of a head-scratcher for me.

Tool released an album full of the same alt-metal they've always done.
Opeth will release an album full of the 70's-inspired prog rock they've done since 2011.
Both of these things are good news to my ears.

I couldn't care less about Opeth and Tool pushing the envelope of progressive (whatever, fill in the blank) in their mid-40s to 50s. Just put more of Your Sound out and let me savor the flavor! If I want different prog metal I have Leprous, Ne Obliviscaris, Vola, Zeal and Ardor, BTBAM, Ihsahn, Native Construct, Tesseract, The Contortionist, Periphery, Devin Townsend and his zillion projects, etc.

I think it's simply that for Tool the drums are generally the lead instrument. The riffing in the extended parts is generally very simple, so folks who are super into riffs just get bored (me, on this album, at time).

Something like black metal and atmospheric black metal is droning and repetitive but the melody is derived from the droning repetition of the guitar playing (which also happens to be fast). But it's not as if the genre isn't known for having songs that are too long.

Tool is mid-core with powerful chunky riffing, generally, and no blast beats. The energy on the latest album is fairly laid back and cerebral. Maynard was always the one to bring the emotion and he's little more than a barking robot on the album.

Frankly, it's the first Tool album where I feel like they could use a proper keyboard player or a second guitarist. Something to shake up the mix because Fear Inoculum is little more than retread Tool stretched out past ten minutes. That's still pretty good stuff, but it's hardly top tier Tool.

WizardM0de wrote:

...released the same album over and over again since 2011 (Heritage).

Heritage = Pale Communion = Sorceress = In cauda veneum

We'll have to agree to disagree, I guess. Those albums sound nothing alike to me. And, as a Bad Religion fan, I can tell you about releasing the same album over and over.

Mongolian Throat Singing + Metal

There's little that's more metal than Mongolians.

Those are some wicked interesting instruments.

garion333 wrote:

I think it's simply that for Tool the drums are generally the lead instrument. The riffing in the extended parts is generally very simple, so folks who are super into riffs just get bored (me, on this album, at time).

Something like black metal and atmospheric black metal is droning and repetitive but the melody is derived from the droning repetition of the guitar playing (which also happens to be fast). But it's not as if the genre isn't known for having songs that are too long.

Tool is mid-core with powerful chunky riffing, generally, and no blast beats. The energy on the latest album is fairly laid back and cerebral. Maynard was always the one to bring the emotion and he's little more than a barking robot on the album.

Frankly, it's the first Tool album where I feel like they could use a proper keyboard player or a second guitarist. Something to shake up the mix because Fear Inoculum is little more than retread Tool stretched out past ten minutes. That's still pretty good stuff, but it's hardly top tier Tool.

I agree with everything you said. Fear Inoculum is missing layers and intensity for me that would make a decent album much, much better.

r013nt0 wrote:
WizardM0de wrote:

...released the same album over and over again since 2011 (Heritage).

Heritage = Pale Communion = Sorceress = In cauda veneum

We'll have to agree to disagree, I guess. Those albums sound nothing alike to me. And, as a Bad Religion fan, I can tell you about releasing the same album over and over.

10-4 and Cheers! I hope you enjoy the new Opeth. I'm excited.

WizardM0de wrote:

10-4 and Cheers! I hope you enjoy the new Opeth. I'm excited.

Indeed! By the way, that wasn't an attempt to quash discussion, I'm happy to carry on with detail. I just find that there's usually a chance that that conversation ends up in frustration rather than being interesting or enlightening.

Also, if you like bands who reinvent themselves every single time, are you familiar with Enslaved? (Norwegian band, I'm sure there are others)

r013nt0 wrote:
WizardM0de wrote:

10-4 and Cheers! I hope you enjoy the new Opeth. I'm excited.

Indeed! By the way, that wasn't an attempt to quash discussion, I'm happy to carry on with detail. I just find that there's usually a chance that that conversation ends up in frustration rather than being interesting or enlightening.

Also, if you like bands who reinvent themselves every single time, are you familiar with Enslaved? (Norwegian band, I'm sure there are others)

I'm with WizardM0de on this one, there's a progression of sound on the newer albums with Opeth, but they all kind of sound the same.

Much like their pre-2011 albums all kinda sounded the same with some changes from album to album.

Tool used to have a progression to their sound. That stopped, which is fine, but I think they should maybe go back to working with producers as the self-produced stuff is drawn out.

Anyone else tend to program their music listening according to the next band you're considering seeing live? Last week Teenage Bottlerocket (a punk band) came through, and they were the first show I was going to see after a long layoff, so I listened to them a LOT this summer. Definitely found a new long-term favorite, and, remarkably, my son's first favorite band!

Now the next show I'm planning on is Blood Incantation, what some call a "weird death metal" band. I put them in a category with bands like Demilich, Timeghoul, Cthe'ilist, and Tomb Mold, to name those I'm familiar with. They are coming with Immolation, a big name I'm not familiar with. Gonna give them some spins as well, to determine whether I want to stick around for their set.

I use setlist.fm to see what songs I'd like to familiarize myself with when it comes to a new band, and often build a Spotify playlist off that.

Oh I would love to see Immolation. Their most recent album, Atonement, was a big favorite of mine a couple of years ago.

*Legion* wrote:

Oh I would love to see Immolation. Their most recent album, Atonement, was a big favorite of mine a couple of years ago.

They're coming through California in October.

Fedaykin98 wrote:

Anyone else tend to program their music listening according to the next band you're considering seeing live?

Oh, absolutely - assembling and enjoying the "get hype" playlist is essential! A month out is nothing but who I'm seeing, then the week of I take a reprieve for the material to be fresh live.

Fedaykin98 wrote:
*Legion* wrote:

Oh I would love to see Immolation. Their most recent album, Atonement, was a big favorite of mine a couple of years ago.

They're coming through California in October.

Everybody comes through California, but they skip over the whole middle part of the state. Shows in LA and SF are about as useful for me as something happening in San Antonio or Dallas would be for you - can do from time to time, but not on Tuesday during the work week.

Every now and then, someone actually schedules an extra stop in Santa Cruz or San Luis Obispo or Santa Barbara, these are the scraps I live off of.

I'ma put this here and then drop it, haha

Opeth - Pale Communion - Cusp of Eternity

Opeth - Sorceress - Sorceress

One of these is extremely 70s Prog / folk. The other is.. not that.
*note, I did not pick extreme examples from either album. See "Will o the Wisp" or "Voice of Treason"

Same band? Sure, that's obvious. Same sound? Not to me, I guess.

Now, Enslaved.

Enslaved - Vertebrae (2008) - Ground

Enslaved - Axioma Ethica Odini (2010) - Giants

r013nt0 wrote:

I'ma put this here and then drop it, haha

One of these is extremely 70s Prog / folk. The other is.. not that.
*note, I did not pick extreme examples from either album. See "Will o the Wisp" or "Voice of Treason"

Same band? Sure, that's obvious. Same sound? Not to me, I guess.

Still very much 70's proggy folky stuff, but with more metal added back in, which is what the stuff from the new album continues on. And that's a good thing because Opeth lost their edge with Heritage and are slowly bringing it back.

Speaking of Opeth, metal-wani likes their new album a lot (they seem to like everything, but some neat-sounding details are in there).

garion333 wrote:
r013nt0 wrote:

I'ma put this here and then drop it, haha

One of these is extremely 70s Prog / folk. The other is.. not that.
*note, I did not pick extreme examples from either album. See "Will o the Wisp" or "Voice of Treason"

Same band? Sure, that's obvious. Same sound? Not to me, I guess.

Still very much 70's proggy folky stuff, but with more metal added back in, which is what the stuff from the new album continues on. And that's a good thing because Opeth lost their edge with Heritage and are slowly bringing it back.

Yep! I loved the direction Sorceress starting moving in...I don't need growls but I'm hoping the metal vibe's turned up to 11 in the new one (rumor has it that this may be true).

Oh yeah, I'm stoked for the new album. I like what I'm hearing, it feels more fresh and alive.

I still expect four minute acoustic songs and other lower key folky parts, but I think they found a sound that all the band is keyed in on.

I'm sure some of are sick about folks discussing Tool, but I thought it was funny that in my ride home yesterday I slapped on "Fear Inoculum Radio" on Spotify and one of the songs was form Dream Theater. So what, right? I found the DT song to be less noodly and wandering than Fear Inoculum.

What has FI done? Made me want to dive back into DT because they're less up their own asses.

Never saw that coming!

garion333 wrote:

What has FI done? Made me want to dive back into DT because they're less up their own asses.

Uh, are you sure about that?

Because this makes meandering songs look humble by comparison.

I believe everyone agrees that album was a mistake and not at all what I was gonna listen to.

Edit: Boom

I agree with Fantano, though he's even harsher than I feel.

garion333 wrote:

What has FI done? Made me want to dive back into DT because they're less up their own asses.

Who needs DT anymore?

Gotta admit, I've never liked Dream Theater. At all. Not even the smallest bit. Probably not a single riff.
Worse than Dragonforce for pure, unadulterated, obnoxious wankery.

edits:

I agree with Fantano for the most part. Invincible was trash though, not sure what he liked about it. I'd probably be harsher.

I don't think I've ever posted any Ne Obliviscaris in here, speaking of wankery. But I like this particular wankery.

*Legion* wrote:
Fedaykin98 wrote:
*Legion* wrote:

Oh I would love to see Immolation. Their most recent album, Atonement, was a big favorite of mine a couple of years ago.

They're coming through California in October.

Everybody comes through California, but they skip over the whole middle part of the state. Shows in LA and SF are about as useful for me as something happening in San Antonio or Dallas would be for you - can do from time to time, but not on Tuesday during the work week.

Every now and then, someone actually schedules an extra stop in Santa Cruz or San Luis Obispo or Santa Barbara, these are the scraps I live off of.

I feel your pain, at least in part. For some reason it appears that bands consider the fourth largest city in the US skippable. I actually broadened my geographic region in BandsInTown to the max and now it just barely includes Austin. There is a significant number of tours that go there but not here.

That TBDM concert I just mentioned was one of those, in fact. I saw the Austin show because there wasn't one in Houston.