[News] Trump, Russia, and the 2016 Election

All news related to Donald Trump's alleged ties to Russia and to the Russian interference in the 2016 Presidential election. New details should be cited to reputable sources.

Jayhawker wrote:

I would absolutely support an investigation into how all of the voting machine decisions went down, going back to Diebold's actions in Ohio 20 years ago.

Mother Jones, from 2004: Diebold’s Political Machine: Political insiders suggest Ohio could become as decisive this year as Florida was four years ago. Which is why the state’s plan to use paperless touch-screen voting machines has so many up in arms.

At a trade fair held recently here in Columbus, a wide range of companies seeking to fill that void demonstrated technologies that could easily and cheaply provide paper receipts for ballots. One such product, called TruVote, provides two separate voting receipts. The first is shown under plexiglass, and displays the choices made by a vote on the touch screen. This copy falls into a lockbox after the voter approves it. The second is provided to the voter. TruVote is already attracting fans, among them Brooks Thomas, Tennessee’s Coordinator of Elections. “I’ve not seen anything that compares to [the] TruVote validation system.” Georgia’s Assistant Secretary of State, Terrell L. Slayton, Jr., calls the device is the “perfect solution.” But Blackwell argues the campaign for a paper ballot trail for Ohio is an attempt to “derail” reform. He says he’ll comply with the demand only if Congress mandates it.

Fwiw, where I live in Ohio it's a paper ballot that's scanned in. I'm sure digital only places exist, but where I am we're still paper.

garion333 wrote:
Jayhawker wrote:

I would absolutely support an investigation into how all of the voting machine decisions went down, going back to Diebold's actions in Ohio 20 years ago.

Mother Jones, from 2004: Diebold’s Political Machine: Political insiders suggest Ohio could become as decisive this year as Florida was four years ago. Which is why the state’s plan to use paperless touch-screen voting machines has so many up in arms.

At a trade fair held recently here in Columbus, a wide range of companies seeking to fill that void demonstrated technologies that could easily and cheaply provide paper receipts for ballots. One such product, called TruVote, provides two separate voting receipts. The first is shown under plexiglass, and displays the choices made by a vote on the touch screen. This copy falls into a lockbox after the voter approves it. The second is provided to the voter. TruVote is already attracting fans, among them Brooks Thomas, Tennessee’s Coordinator of Elections. “I’ve not seen anything that compares to [the] TruVote validation system.” Georgia’s Assistant Secretary of State, Terrell L. Slayton, Jr., calls the device is the “perfect solution.” But Blackwell argues the campaign for a paper ballot trail for Ohio is an attempt to “derail” reform. He says he’ll comply with the demand only if Congress mandates it.

Fwiw, where I live in Ohio it's a paper ballot that's scanned in. I'm sure digital only places exist, but where I am we're still paper.

I remember using an all digital machine in Indiana for 2002. That thing was a POS.

Quintin_Stone wrote:

NC has scanned paper ballots.

Wake County does. A lot of counties have electronic machines with no paper trail. The NC Board of Elections is actually meeting this Sunday (after multiple delays) to approve new voting machines for next year's elections. This is in order to fulfull the requirements of a 2013 law that de-certifies any voting machine without a paper trail at the end of this year.

Ah, didn't realize I was special.

Quintin_Stone wrote:

Ah, didn't realize I was special.

In my Western NC county, we have touchscreens that produce a paper scroll inside the machine that you can see being printed. I always intentionally vote the opposite way on one race and then make a change just to feel a little more confident that the paper copy reflects my actual choices.

SC is digital only. I vote but have no confidence that my vote is correctly counted.

I guess so long as it's not Georgia on your mind....

I don't think I've ever seen a digital-only ballot, but then I've always lived in that special place where Stone lives.

I'm pretty sure NC is the State where Republican counties had the setup where if you had an illegal ballot (ie more than one vote for a slot, etc) it immediately told you so that you could fill out a fresh ballot. The Dem counties had a system where it happily took your ballot and filed it away so that it wouldn't be counted. I like the method that they use for the white people, we should do that everywhere.

edit: wrong thread

edit 2: might as well post an actual news story:

Politico: Majority of House Democrats now support impeachment inquiry: Pelosi will now face increased pressure to back impeachment proceedings.

The impeachment dam has broken.

More than half of House Democrats say they would vote to launch impeachment proceedings against President Donald Trump, a crucial threshold that backers said will require Speaker Nancy Pelosi to reconsider her steadfast opposition.

Though Pelosi has given no indication that even a significant majority of House Democrats embracing impeachment proceedings would shift her view, supporters of an inquiry argue that crossing the halfway mark among the caucus isa symbolic boost that could shift the political dynamic.

“The president’s repeated abuses have brought American democracy to a perilous crossroads," said Rep. Eliot Engel (D-N.Y.), chairman of the House Foreign Affairs Committee, who announced his support on Tuesday. "Following the guidance of the Constitution — which I have sworn to uphold — is the only way to achieve justice."

House Dems reach impeachment milestone

More than 50% of House Democrats now publicly support an impeachment inquiry into President Trump, putting new pressure on party leaders

CNN: US extracted top spy from inside Russia in 2017

Washington (CNN)In a previously undisclosed secret mission in 2017, the United States successfully extracted from Russia one of its highest-level covert sources inside the Russian government, multiple Trump administration officials with direct knowledge told CNN.

A person directly involved in the discussions said that the removal of the Russian was driven, in part, by concerns that President Donald Trump and his administration repeatedly mishandled classified intelligence and could contribute to exposing the covert source as a spy.

The decision to carry out the extraction occurred soon after a May 2017 meeting in the Oval Office in which Trump discussed highly classified intelligence with Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov and then-Russian Ambassador to the US Sergey Kislyak. The intelligence, concerning ISIS in Syria, had been provided by Israel.

The removal happened at a time of wide concern in the intelligence community about mishandling of intelligence by Trump and his administration. Those concerns were described to CNN by five sources who served in the Trump administration, intelligence agencies and Congress.

Those concerns continued to grow in the period after Trump's Oval Office meeting with Kislyak and Lavrov. Weeks after the decision to extract the spy, in July 2017, Trump met privately with Russian President Vladimir Putin at the G20 summit in Hamburg and took the unusual step of confiscating the interpreter's notes. Afterward, intelligence officials again expressed concern that the President may have improperly discussed classified intelligence with Russia, according to an intelligence source with knowledge of the intelligence community's response to the Trump-Putin meeting.

Knowledge of the Russian covert source's existence was highly restricted within the US government and intelligence agencies. According to one source, there was "no equal alternative" inside the Russian government, providing both insight and information on Putin.

CNN is withholding several details about the spy to reduce the risk of the person's identification.
The secret removal of the high-level Russian asset has left the US without one of its key sources on the inner workings of the Kremlin and the plans and thinking of the Russian president at a time when tensions between the two nations have been growing. The US intelligence community considers Russia one of the two greatest threats to US national security, along with China.

"The impact would be huge because it is so hard to develop sources like that in any denied area, particularly Russia, because the surveillance and security there is so stringent," a former senior intelligence official told CNN. "You can't reacquire a capability like that overnight."

Can't wait to hear the sound of crickets coming from all those Republicans who worship at the altar of national security.

OG_slinger wrote:

Can't wait to hear the sound of crickets coming from all those Republicans who worship at the altar of national security.

They have a long-standing proficiency with the tiniest of violins. Remember Valerie Plame?

Jonman wrote:
OG_slinger wrote:

Can't wait to hear the sound of crickets coming from all those Republicans who worship at the altar of national security.

They have a long-standing proficiency with the tiniest of violins. Remember Valerie Plame?

No kidding. It always incensed me that revealing her role made the general public shrug.

firesloth wrote:
Jonman wrote:
OG_slinger wrote:

Can't wait to hear the sound of crickets coming from all those Republicans who worship at the altar of national security.

They have a long-standing proficiency with the tiniest of violins. Remember Valerie Plame?

No kidding. It always incensed me that revealing her role made the general public shrug.

Yeah. But the general public can’t do a whole lot about it either. What about the Democrats? Why the hell don't THEY do anything. They have the power to do something and it’s their duty. Even if an average schmoe like me staged the biggest protest possible it still wouldn’t mean sh*t.

Having council question Corey Lewandowski for a solid half hour was much more effective than the five minutes of random ranting from representatives.

wrong thread

That last 30 minutes with Barry Berke questioning Lewandowski was outstanding.

This whistleblower story seems to be the real deal. Saw this timeline that shows what it may be about.

https://twitter.com/contextfall/stat...

7/31: Trump call with Putin
8/8: Dan Coates and Sue Gordon out at DNI
8/12: #Whistleblower goes to ICIG
8/28: Trump pauses military aid to Ukraine
9/12: ICIG tells Schiff about WB
9/12: Trump reinstates aid for Ukraine after Schiff requests WB report
9/13: Schiff goes public

We'll (hopefully) know soon what is going on.

The House Intelligence Committee briefing is currently at three-and-a-half hours and still going, which is very, very unusual.

(If I had to bet, it involves Saudi Arabia rather than Russia, but there are a lot of possibilities.)

Kinda makes you wonder what Trump said when he met with Putin by himself for two hours back in 2017 and then confiscated the interpreter's notes and told them to never talk to anyone, including US officials, about the meeting.

OG_slinger wrote:

Kinda makes you wonder what Trump said when he met with Putin by himself for two hours back in 2017 and then confiscated the interpreter's notes and told them to never talk to anyone, including US officials, about the meeting.

Honestly, if the Dems do not leverage this to make the case that this is part of a larger pattern of abuse, they are fools. This feels like it might be the event that gets more Americans in support of holding trump accountable versus just riding the term out and hoping for the best in 2020.

Trump has been really quiet on this one. His only tweets so far has been two that made the argument that he would only do evil on a private line, not one where he could be recorded, and one that just said, "Presidential Harassment!" Otherwise, he has gone silent.

Jayhawker wrote:

This feels like it might be the event that...

"Did I get him? Is that it? Is this over? Oh, it doesn't matter? Nothing matters? Ok"

Jayhawker wrote:

This whistleblower story seems to be the real deal. Saw this timeline that shows what it may be about.

https://twitter.com/contextfall/stat...

7/31: Trump call with Putin
8/8: Dan Coates and Sue Gordon out at DNI
8/12: #Whistleblower goes to ICIG
8/28: Trump pauses military aid to Ukraine
9/12: ICIG tells Schiff about WB
9/12: Trump reinstates aid for Ukraine after Schiff requests WB report
9/13: Schiff goes public

IMAGE(https://i.imgflip.com/3b00xr.jpg)

Oooooooor

Gremlin wrote:

(If I had to bet, it involves Saudi Arabia rather than Russia, but there are a lot of possibilities.)

That's my guess.

Or maybe it really is about the rumor that Trump is trying to pressure Ukraine into investigating Biden, which is something else I could totally see Trump doing.

I really like the opposing views, which is to mock what the evidence looks like, and then suggest something else with not a single bit of information that backs that up. This is, of course, what full blown propaganda is meant to create. Doubt the probable by offering up an assortment of unprovable nothingness. That's why we are still playing this game years after his blatant subservience to Putin was shown for all to see. but since it was so obvious, so visible, we just kind of shrug and say, I bet it was nothing.

Here, we have complaint, a phone call that was at least transcribed, but probably recorded, and instead of pushing to have the complaint exposed and get to the truth, we create reasons that it is okay to just not pursue it. It's like we love carrying Putin's water. Ignore the evidence, stop collecting evidence, and then just cry about how pathetic the Dems are, that it is the folks that want the Trump held accountable that are the real problem.

Russia was the first country to figure out that the age of social media, you can no longer censor the truth. but what you can do is fold the channels with so much FUD that well meaning folks will just start assuming nothing can be trusted, and then just go limp, and favor just allowing it.

Note that the Inspector General who alerted congress about the whistleblower is Michael Atkinson, a Trump appointee. Whatever it was it was enough to alarm him.

Gremlin wrote:

Note that the Inspector General who alerted congress about the whistleblower is Michael Atkinson, a Trump appointee. Whatever it was it was enough to alarm him.

Also, the term urgent, as it is used intros complaint, has a legal definition.

https://twitter.com/mayawiley/status...

The federal law defines “urgent” as “A serious or flagrant problem, abuse, violation of law or Executive order,..., or operations of an intelligence activity involving #classified information...” among other things. This appears to be the relevant part of the #whistleblower story

We have security officers listening in to every outgoing call. The whistleblower law in this case specifically outlines that it is not to be used for anything other than a threat to the country. It can't be used to argue with policy or opinion of the president. You can't say the president is just being stupid, and it is not just accidentally telling the Russian where we got intel.

I'd say this makes the Saudi Arabia connection unlikely, unless, of course, it involved a promise to get a war started with Iran, which the administration seems to have been working on for some time. I believe the real goal isn't so much the war with Iran, but to bait Iran into supporting terrorist attacks on our soil, which Trump can then use to excuse a round up of anyone of Arab descent decent, or any Muslim. This would satisfy Putin's real goal, which is to cause as much chaos among the our citizens as possible.

Other possibilities are promising to provide Putin access to Americans, like former Russian Ambassador Michael McFaul, who he already considered hading over to Putin. But it could also ve related to the CIA asset that we pulled out of Russia, or wanting to know who our other assets are.

But, yes, this could have nothing to do with Russia. But it still rises to the level of a massive security threat to our country. It just so happens that Russia has their hands all over most of the likely countries to be involved. It's nearly impossible to imagine that this is not Putin related, even if it is Saudi Arabia.

But this is being hidden, in violation fo US law, from the House Intelligence Committee, because the DNI says that it involves "privileged" conversations, which is code for, Trump gets to keep everything a secret. But as Ama Schiff just pointed out in a press conference, if the the subject of a whistleblower complaint is allowed to quash that complaint, then the system is broken. There is a reason they are taking these lengths.

But then, there is a reason for all of the lies, going back to the campaign. And for some reason, there is a contingent on the left that continues to act like this is all made up.

polypusher wrote:
Jayhawker wrote:

This feels like it might be the event that...

"Did I get him? Is that it? Is this over? Oh, it doesn't matter? Nothing matters? Ok"

I agree. But that response is what the goal of the last two years of propaganda he's been designed to elicit. "We all know they are lying, but then, everyone is lying. Let's just wait."

IMAGE(https://img.zeit.de/digital/internet/2016-08/this-is-fine/wide__1300x731)