[News] Trump, Russia, and the 2016 Election

All news related to Donald Trump's alleged ties to Russia and to the Russian interference in the 2016 Presidential election. New details should be cited to reputable sources.

same complaint as before, the 5 minute format is garbage and leads to garbage mistakes

I doubt today's events change anything, (or anyone's mind) at all.

WTF does this even mean?

resident Trump took to Twitter immediately at the conclusion of Robert Mueller's testimony.

In all caps, Trump tweeted "TRUTH IS A FORCE OF NATURE!"

TRUTH IS A FORCE OF NATURE!
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) July 24, 2019

edit- I think leaving the P off of the word president is more fitting for this man.

JC wrote:

WTF does this even mean?

It means he's trying to use the EPA to destroy it.

JC wrote:

WTF does this even mean?

resident Trump took to Twitter immediately at the conclusion of Robert Mueller's testimony.

In all caps, Trump tweeted "TRUTH IS A FORCE OF NATURE!"

TRUTH IS A FORCE OF NATURE!
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) July 24, 2019

Truth is the name of a stripper at Nature, Manhattan's premier gentleman's club.

JC wrote:

I doubt today's events change anything, (or anyone's mind) at all.

No. It's really astounding what years of propaganda can accomplish.

DSGamer wrote:
JC wrote:

I doubt today's events change anything, (or anyone's mind) at all.

No. It's really astounding what years of propaganda can accomplish.

Bingo!

I think the only way to fix this, and I don't think it is going to happen, is for Pelosi and Nadler to announce the beginning of impeachment hearings today. They need to make their case, and instead of letting the GOP make false accusations, force them to defend the charges. It my still not turn the tide, but they have to stop waiting for the GOP to come to them.

People keep wishing there is some line that the GOP won't cross when it comes to Trump.. the sooner we all just give up the idea that such a line exists the better we will all be.

Mueller up there was terrible. His nervous, prepared speech press conference a couple months ago should've prepared everyone for today. He was never saving things. He's not the guy to do it in the limelight. He withered under the lights.

The ONE thing that Mueller came close to saying that would've been a real gotcha was about the OLC memo (indicting a standing president). Without it he would've indicted the President. He later clarified that wasn't what he was saying. Ouch.

Impeachment is not happening. They don't have enough.

garion333 wrote:

Impeachment is not happening. They don't have enough backbone.

Fixed that last sentence that seemed to trail off much like a Chuck Schumer speech.

garion333 wrote:

Impeachment is not happening. They don't have enough.

That's not true. There is plenty. DS has the right of it.

It is absolutely maddening that the first part of the report, the second hearing today, is not enough to move reasonable people. The Russians are attacking us. Trump, on top of welcoming their help, has also done nothing to stop them, and has instead claimed he will do it again.

The failure we are having on obstruction is more complicated. People keep saying that he was stopped from breaking the law by those around him. Why the f*ck aren't people asking what those people who stopped them are doing today? They've been replaced by people who will carry out his orders. That's the problem with excusing the obstruction charges based on him being stopped.

As a nation, we deserve this. The information is there, in plain sight, but we are too weak and ignorant to do a f*cking thing. Welcome to an upcoming quarter century of fascist rule. It's gonna be a doozy.

If you have a D-Rep, now's the time to contact them. Even if Pelosi is against she'll bow to the will of her caucus, and if she's not this is a "I agree, I want to do it, now Make me do it" situation.

I've already called my representative and told her that if they don't begin impeachment proceedings I won't vote for her.

If it wasn’t clear before, it’s crystal clear now. If the Dems want a groundswell of support, they are going to have to act on their own. Voters will catch up. Right now, as long as they hem and haw, no one really believes they believe there is enough. But if they get it started, voters will side with them now, I believe.

I won't hold my breath. I'm feeling pretty good about my call that Trump will still be president in Summer 2025 if he's still alive.

I don't believe anyone will ever hold him accountable.

We either hold him accountable now, or we are a Russian colony that Putin’s oligarchs can loot with impunity.

Oh, it's hopeless? Well, good, I guess I can stop following politics. Will certainly save me time and headaches.

I want the mutherf*cker impeached as much as anyone, but as of today, with the best information I've been able to find, if you put impeachment up for a vote it Fails because not enough of the marginal district Dems will support it. That seems like the worst possible result to me, but what do I know.

As bad as the first term was the second will be a hundred times worse.

The third will be the stuff of End Times

Zona wrote:

I want the mutherf*cker impeached as much as anyone, but as of today, with the best information I've been able to find, if you put impeachment up for a vote it Fails because not enough of the marginal district Dems will support it. That seems like the worst possible result to me, but what do I know.

Nobody has ever suggested just a blanket impeachment vote. Got to start hearings and have more witnesses expand on the report. Get all the sh*t he did out there for everyone to see because let's face it, most of the electorate isn't reading 400 pages. Then as all his crimes are detailed, you get the votes.

TheGameguru wrote:

As bad as the first term was the second will be a hundred times worse.

First term is far from over.

At this point impeachment seems hard to do. If Dems cant even figure out how to interview Muller, is there much hope for impeachment to be handled in a good way? Maybe they should focus on the tax papers for now. Trump reeaally does not seem to want those public.
+ Get ready for the election.

As others have said (Stele, on this page for example) the impeachment vote happens at the end of the impeachment hearings. I think they should focus on his taxes and finances. That can be a part of the impeachment investigations. Which they should have started months ago, but there's no time like the present.

Jayhawker wrote:
garion333 wrote:

Impeachment is not happening. They don't have enough.

That's not true. There is plenty. DS has the right of it.

It is absolutely maddening that the first part of the report, the second hearing today, is not enough to move reasonable people. The Russians are attacking us. Trump, on top of welcoming their help, has also done nothing to stop them, and has instead claimed he will do it again.

The failure we are having on obstruction is more complicated. People keep saying that he was stopped from breaking the law by those around him. Why the f*ck aren't people asking what those people who stopped them are doing today? They've been replaced by people who will carry out his orders. That's the problem with excusing the obstruction charges based on him being stopped.

As a nation, we deserve this. The information is there, in plain sight, but we are too weak and ignorant to do a f*cking thing. Welcome to an upcoming quarter century of fascist rule. It's gonna be a doozy.

I stand by my comment. There's simply not enough of a smoking gun for Trump's connection to Russia and on obstruction that clouds things greatly coupled with the fact he didn't quite break any laws. People did manage to stop him.

If any of the major pieces, from Seychalles, to the Trump Tower meeting to Moscow Trump Tower, if any had panned out from the investigation then there'd be a smoking gun to hang everything else around. But there isn't. So there's a giant nothingness at the center that puts off smoke, which the Dems are using, while there's no actual fire.

If impeachment proceedings begin it'll be a political stunt to harm Trump. The votes aren't there right now. And if they aren't there now, will they ever be?

Gremlin wrote:

As others have said (Stele, on this page for example) the impeachment vote happens at the end of the impeachment hearings. I think they should focus on his taxes and finances. That can be a part of the impeachment investigations. Which they should have started months ago, but there's no time like the present.

Didn't they ask Mueller something about Trump's taxes today?

"Your office did not obtain the president's tax returns which could otherwise show foreign financial services, correct?" Rep. Raja Krishnamoorthi, an Illinois Democrat, asked.

"I'm not going to speak to that," Mueller said.

"In July 2017, the president said his personal finances were off limits or outside the per view of your investigation. And he drew a red line around his personal finances.Were the president's personal finances outside the purview of your investigation?" Krishnamoorthi asked.

"I'm not going to get into that," Mueller responded.

"Were you instructed by anyone not to investigate the president's personal finances?" Krishnamoorthi said.

"No," Mueller answered.

If Mueller got to see them then they didn't show any connection. Question is, did he?

Personally, I remember what Pelosi sounds like when she's Definitely not going to open impeachment proceedings, and this sounds different to me. It's not like there's a lack of investigations in the House, or a lack of legal proceedings around those investigations. That the media continually fails to do what it's job SHOULD be is a problem, but not an insurmountable one.

If you're going to view impeachment as a purely political act, which is essentially what it is, especially with a republican controlled senate, then doing it closer to the election could be a decent play. Manufacture a Comey letter, have the headlines be "Trump Impeached" in November.

Or I could be wrong, and they'll never impeach him. That would be a mistake in my view, but I can see the thought prosses that leads there.

I also don't know what people expect out of Impeachment. It won't prevent him from doing sh*t, it gives no special powers to the House. Every vile action his administration currently takes will continue, as will his obstruction.

I also really can not understand the hopelessness on display here and elsewhere. Could he be reelected? Of course! But it's not Fated, it's not written in the stars, destiny has not ordained it. If any Democratic president was sitting in his position, with his approvals, and with his parties performance in the midterms we would already be holding the funeral.

JC wrote:

WTF does this even mean?

resident Trump

My mind quickly went to The Americans

A resident spy in the world of espionage is an agent operating within a foreign country for extended periods of time. A base of operations within a foreign country with which a resident spy may liaise is known as a "station" in English and a rezidentura (residency) in Russian.[1][2] What the U.S. would call a "station chief", the head spy, is known as a rezident in Russian.[1]

No. It was confirmed that Mueller did not see Trump's taxes.

And there are far more grounds to impeach Trump than just on what Mueller found. There is plenty in the report to impeach, but a full impeachment inquiry by the House should take on a lot more offenses.

You can start with refusing to honor subpoenas.

You can go to asking federal officials to break the law, and offering them pardons to do so, as he did with the border patrol.

You can impeach him for having private conversations with Putin that no one, not even his aides were privy to.

There is the emoluments clause. Campaign finance violations. The missing millions from the inauguration.
That's just off the top of my head. How many are there?

How about the security clearances for everyone that failed to qualify, including Kushner?

Dammit. Seems awfully like we're headed to a future where foreign election meddling is just an accepted part of our messed up system, like gerrymandering, where efforts to curb it seem mostly fruitless as long as one side benefits.

How long until the Dems just throw their hands up, say "If you can't beat em, join em" and start actively courting assistance from Chinese state hackers to even the odds?

Zona wrote:

I also don't know what people expect out of Impeachment. It won't prevent him from doing sh*t, it gives no special powers to the House. Every vile action his administration currently takes will continue, as will his obstruction.

Actually, the house gets stronger investigative powers if they start an impeachment query. I think they basically become their own law enforcement body that can get stronger warrants and subpoenas.

garion333 wrote:

There's simply not enough of a smoking gun for Trump

Oh, we've had smoking guns on Trump before, if we hold smoking guns to the apparent standard of the Oval Office tape that did Nixon in. The Access Hollywood tape. The admission he fired James Comey over the Russia investigation. Perhaps even more fit that standard, but not enough people felt they counted enough to act against Trump.