[News] Trump, Russia, and the 2016 Election

All news related to Donald Trump's alleged ties to Russia and to the Russian interference in the 2016 Presidential election. New details should be cited to reputable sources.

MAYBE COLLUSION, PROBABLY OBSTRUCTION!

Trimp!

JC wrote:

So Mueller has started... I wonder if the dial will move at all. I'm sure this piece will piss off Trump. The double negatives are annoying though

Nadler: So the report did not conclude that he did not commit obstruction of justice? Is that correct?

It's not actually a double negative, though. It's not that the report concluded that he did commit obstruction, it's that the report didn't say that he didn't. Trump's story is that the report says he did not commit obstruction, but that's not the case.

I think this guy who keeps going on about Fusion GPS is about one slip away from talking about Pizzagate.

“Mr Mueller, is it not true that President Trump is a divine being of holy light bound to this mortal flesh only to lead the country to it’s true human instrumentality?”

“I refer you to the Report.”

ruhk wrote:

“Mr Mueller, is it not true that President Trump is a divine being of holy light bound to this mortal flesh only to lead the country to it’s true human instrumentality?”

“I refer you to the Report.”

I... is Trump Shinji?

Reaper81 wrote:
ruhk wrote:

“Mr Mueller, is it not true that President Trump is a divine being of holy light bound to this mortal flesh only to lead the country to it’s true human instrumentality?”

“I refer you to the Report.”

I... is Trump Shinji?

He's just as much of an oblivious idiot, so.....

ruhk wrote:

I think this guy who keeps going on about Fusion GPS is about one slip away from talking about Pizzagate.

He's also up for a position in the administration. This was really his job interview.

absurddoctor wrote:
ruhk wrote:

I think this guy who keeps going on about Fusion GPS is about one slip away from talking about Pizzagate.

He's also up for a position in the administration. This was really his job interview.

What are Gaetz and Buck in the running for?

Rat Boy wrote:
absurddoctor wrote:
ruhk wrote:

I think this guy who keeps going on about Fusion GPS is about one slip away from talking about Pizzagate.

He's also up for a position in the administration. This was really his job interview.

What are Gaetz and Buck in the running for?

Boris Johnson's official british comedy duo?

WTF? Someone finally directly asks whether he agrees that Trimp should be charged and they bang the gavel, cut Mueller off, and prevent him from finishing his answer?!

EDIT: aaand someone followed up with the same line of question but he dodged it this time because he had time to think about it.

The Democrats are so incompetent.

They aren’t pushing him on anything or asking him to clarify his statements. He gives a non-answer and they immediately move on. Meanwhile the Republicans are riding him on EVERYTHING. Granted it’s almost entirely nonsense, but at least they aren’t meekly capitulating to his diversions.

Sure. What I mean is that they shouldn’t even be having this hearing. We should be months into an actual impeachment hearing by now. Forcing Mueller to testify and getting *this* hearing out of it is a joke.

Yeah, I caught a section earlier when a GOP rep screamed at Mueller about how, if Trump thought he was innocent, it would be impossible to obstruct. He screamed this terrible argument right over his time limit, and was cutoff, with Mueller then allowed to respond.

All we got was his deer in headlights look. The next Dem rep, instead of addressing it, moves in a completely different direction.

But Mueller wrote in the report why that is not, and should not, be true. You can be innocent of a crime, but believe that an investigation will uncover a crime you did commit. Or, you can be protecting other guilty parties. Mueller even wrote that even if an investigation is only going to turn up embarrassing information, you can still be guilty of obstructing justice.

Instead, everyone moved on and allowed the GOP argument go unchallenged.

Jayhawker wrote:

Yeah, I caught a section earlier when a GOP rep screamed at Mueller about how, if Trump thought he was innocent, it would be impossible to obstruct. He screamed this terrible argument right over his time limit, and was cutoff, with Mueller then allowed to respond.

All we got was his deer in headlights look. The next Dem rep, instead of addressing it, moves in a completely different direction.

But Mueller wrote in the report why that is not, and should not, be true. You can be innocent of a crime, but believe that an investigation will uncover a crime you did commit. Or, you can be protecting other guilty parties. Mueller even wrote that even if an investigation is only going to turn up embarrassing information, you can still be guilty of obstructing justice.

Instead, everyone moved on and allowed the GOP argument go unchallenged.

At this point, the Dems have pretty much handed Trump 2020. They're to concerned with "optics" or Twitter / social media popularity contests.

the 5 minute per person format is and always will be a joke, it's a oppotunity for lawmakers on both sides to make zingers but it doesn't accomplish anything. if they wanted to be effective, they would yield their time to a trained and accomplished attorney and let them do all the questioning deposition style, following up on non answers, etc. Effectiveness isn't what they want.

Hah! They literally just “but her emails!”

I stopped watching the hearing and instead called my representative to ask why he hasn't publicly supported impeachment yet. It felt more productive.

This whole sh*tshow is an indictment of the US as it stands more than anything else. Democrats don’t go far enough, Republicans, by in large, run right off the rails, throwing as much sh*t at as many fans as possible and obsfucating the issue. It’s lovely. I will not be retiring in this country and I’ll be happy to leave this mess for more mundane and overt corruption elsewhere.

This sounds as awful as I feared it would be.

Chumpy_McChump wrote:
JC wrote:

So Mueller has started... I wonder if the dial will move at all. I'm sure this piece will piss off Trump. The double negatives are annoying though

Nadler: So the report did not conclude that he did not commit obstruction of justice? Is that correct?

It's not actually a double negative, though. It's not that the report concluded that he did commit obstruction, it's that the report didn't say that he didn't. Trump's story is that the report says he did not commit obstruction, but that's not the case.

True! I reread it and realized my error. It’s still way too wordy for my liking.

Rat Boy wrote:
absurddoctor wrote:
ruhk wrote:

I think this guy who keeps going on about Fusion GPS is about one slip away from talking about Pizzagate.

He's also up for a position in the administration. This was really his job interview.

What are Gaetz and Buck in the running for?

Which boot they get to lick.

Schiff is actually doing a nice job of resetting and explaining the real reason we are here. Hopefully Zebley will help repair the damage of the previous hearing.

And, Nunes, you can f*ck right off. You need to be charged soon, too.

Nunes going after Boris Johnson?

If it's in the report, I support it!

The ugly duckling who turned out to be a Russian puppet.

In a normal world, this would lead to impeachment.

The Dems also screwed this up by approaching it out of order. The Mueller Report works because the first volume establishes the absolute hate Russia did to our electoral process, the manner in which the Trump campaign welcomed and amplified the Russian attack, and even if Mueller failed to find enough evidence to substantiate conspiracy, the actions of the campaign, all the way up to Trump, was despicable. This eliminates the main talking point of Trump and his enablers, that the Russian meddling was a hoax. It also makes clear why the investigation was started, and why it was absolutely necessary.

Once you establish this, then the actions of Trump to strangle and limit the investigation takes on a more sinister characterization. Russia was meddling, Trump's land his campaigned were warned, his aides dozens and dozens of improper contacts. further, many, many texts and emails were deleted or kept from Mueller's investigation, which helped prohibit Mueller from identifying more evidence of coordination with Russia.

By leading with obstruction, it gave weight to GOP talking points that the obstruction was bogus because Trump was not guilty of a crime. Only now are we getting into what gives the report its gravitas, but it is too late. Fox News has the clips they run with.

But there are plenty of clips that establish why impeachment should begin, and why Trump should be afraid of being charged if he leaves office after losing the 2020 election. What they also need to establish is that Trump is purposely leaving the 2020 election vulnerable to outside influence, precisely because our enemies understand that his presidency leaves our country vulnerable.