[Discussion] The (likely) Depressing Road to the 2020 Election Thread

It's going to be a circus.

Will 45 get impeached or step down or challenged? All 3? MAYBE.

Will the democrats eat themselves alive and hobble literally every potential candidate before the primaries are done? PROBABLY.

Talk about that junk here.

BlackSheep wrote:

I have a terrible feeling it will be a vestige if the same party that really enjoys twisting the Bible to justify their actions; they’ll do the same to the ‘Constitution’ as well. Welcome to Animal Farm. I feel like Boxer.

I'm especially upset at every conservative I ever listened to during my childhood who nattered on about the Original Constitution and A Nation Of Laws Not Men and We Want Originalists Not Juridical Activists.

Soon as that became something that no longer supported their position it all went out the window.

BlackSheep wrote:
Mixolyde wrote:
Zona wrote:
Mixolyde wrote:
gewy wrote:
DSGamer wrote:

erect Trump’s wall and mow down refugees at the border with automatic weapons.

Sadly, in the future, when push comes to shove, and the real suffering due to climate change begins, I think this is what a high percentage of the population will opt for. I’m not even sure it will be overcome by changing demographics.

The Supreme Court legalized Gerrymandering, demographics don't matter anymore. All that matters now is which side will cheat the hardest.

Gerrymandering is building a levee against demographics, when levees fail the flooding can end up worse than if they didn’t exist in the first place.

Yes, and then the experiment will really be over. Whatever rises from the ashes, won't be America anymore.

I have a terrible feeling it will be a vestige if the same party that really enjoys twisting the Bible to justify their actions; they’ll do the same to the ‘Constitution’ as well. Welcome to Animal Farm. I feel like Boxer.

At this point my money is on the government depicted in the opening chapters of the bobverse series

This is definitely a depressing road to go down, but Clint Watt’s Daily Beast article is a must read for anyone voting in the 2020 elections.

Basically, 2016 was a simple operation compared to what’s coming. Putin now has right wing media in in the con and ready to go. Look at Trump’s meeting with the alt-right in the Oval Office, followed by the most blatant racist attack on US congress members by a president in our history.

But what that means is that the troll farms are going to be infiltrating the Dem side more thoroughly this time. They need us to fight each other to make unifying Trump’s base to work.

Most American discussions of Kremlin influence efforts characterize Putin’s stance as pro-Republican and anti-Democrat, but that’s not correct. The formula is pro-populist, anti-establishment. On the whole, populist movements may be healthy injections of political participation for democracies, and America’s politics could certainly use an antidote to what appears to be growing control by the richest of the rich. But for the Kremlin, they offer a disorganized, easily infiltrated counter to establishment governments checking Putin’s power. Populists often lack sufficient foreign policy knowledge and their inexperience leaves them ill-equipped to react to Putin’s maneuvers. (President Trump’s first term, thus far, is a relevant case study.) In 2020, Kremlin propagandists will seek to connect populist right and populist left audiences through shared narratives designed to normalize Russia’s agenda in America, demoralize democratic constituents and neutralize political establishment counters to Russian advances abroad and inroads into American society.
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Putin may not get another term of Trump. But regardless of the 2020 outcome, the Kremlin wants Americans on both sides of the political spectrum using the same talking points even if they have drastically different ideologies—America should withdraw from foreign battlefields and global markets, and democracy is a corrupt sham that can’t be trusted.

Trump's dog whistle stop in NC last night was horrifying.

Washington (CNN)In a moment of unrestrained demagoguery, President Donald Trump presided Wednesday over a crowd chanting "Send her back! Send her back!" about an American Muslim congresswoman who he targeted with racist attacks.
"They don't love our country. They are so angry," Trump said, lambasting the group as "hate filled extremists."
"If they don't like it let them leave, let them leave," Trump said.

If you want to be further amazed/flabbergasted by the level of... I don't even know the word, it's beyond cognitive dissonance... Watch the embedded video of the interview of the 8 women from Dallas that support Trump.

I honestly fear for the lives of these representatives at this point.

Not to mention that some people are going to leave a Trump rally and decide to direct their fired-up hate at whatever target that crosses their view that they think deserves it.

I don't know if we're going to get to the point where people are killed at the rallies, but I worry about it--American lynch mobs have an awful f*cking lot of precedent.

"Dog whistle stop" would have been a great portmanteau a few years ago before he started saying the quiet part out loud. Now they're just white supremacist rallies.

JC wrote:

If you want to be further amazed/flabbergasted by the level of... I don't even know the word, it's beyond cognitive dissonance... Watch the embedded video of the interview of the 8 women from Dallas that support Trump.

If it helps, they're not a random selection of Trump supporters:

WP: Just a random group of ‘Republicans’? CNN doesn’t tell the whole story about a Trump-loving panel

There’s no question that the panel of women CNN interviewed about President Trump liked him a lot and don’t think he’s a racist, despite a congressional resolution to the contrary on Tuesday. And no question the women are, as CNN identified them, “Republicans.”

But the network missed telling its viewers a few other things about the women it put on the air Tuesday night and Wednesday afternoon in a segment surveying their reaction to criticism of Trump.

The seemingly random group of eight women were, in fact, members of an organized group dedicated to promoting Trump. The group calls itself the Trumpettes of America 2019 Palm Beach Team, although CNN and correspondent Randi Kaye didn’t mention anything about such a group. Nor did the anchors, including Anderson Cooper, who introduced Kaye’s report.

The network simply identified the panelists individually, with their names appearing on screen next to the word “Republican.” Kaye also gave no hint that the women knew one another and had a common cause.

As a result, the segment left the impression that CNN had assembled a panel reflecting a cross-section of opinion from Republican women about the crossfire between Trump and four freshmen Democratic congresswomen of color, whom Trump told to “go back” to their own countries in his Sunday tweets despite all four being American citizens.

Rather than a cross-section, however, the Trumpettes were plainly of one mind.

By the way, if you have a Republican representative or senator and haven't called before now because you didn't think you could convince them, today is a great day to call them and ask their office what the Representative's response is to the "send her back" chants at Trump's rally. No need to argue: Just asking the question makes them go on record and tells them that their constituents are watching.

The congressional switchboard is (202) 224-3121.

Gremlin wrote:
JC wrote:

If you want to be further amazed/flabbergasted by the level of... I don't even know the word, it's beyond cognitive dissonance... Watch the embedded video of the interview of the 8 women from Dallas that support Trump.

If it helps, they're not a random selection of Trump supporters:

WP: Just a random group of ‘Republicans’? CNN doesn’t tell the whole story about a Trump-loving panel

There’s no question that the panel of women CNN interviewed about President Trump liked him a lot and don’t think he’s a racist, despite a congressional resolution to the contrary on Tuesday. And no question the women are, as CNN identified them, “Republicans.”

But the network missed telling its viewers a few other things about the women it put on the air Tuesday night and Wednesday afternoon in a segment surveying their reaction to criticism of Trump.

The seemingly random group of eight women were, in fact, members of an organized group dedicated to promoting Trump. The group calls itself the Trumpettes of America 2019 Palm Beach Team, although CNN and correspondent Randi Kaye didn’t mention anything about such a group. Nor did the anchors, including Anderson Cooper, who introduced Kaye’s report.

The network simply identified the panelists individually, with their names appearing on screen next to the word “Republican.” Kaye also gave no hint that the women knew one another and had a common cause.

As a result, the segment left the impression that CNN had assembled a panel reflecting a cross-section of opinion from Republican women about the crossfire between Trump and four freshmen Democratic congresswomen of color, whom Trump told to “go back” to their own countries in his Sunday tweets despite all four being American citizens.

Rather than a cross-section, however, the Trumpettes were plainly of one mind.

WTF, CNN? Corporate journalism is garbage.

Ugh. Dammit CNN.

Saw another tweet with pictures of those same women being interviewed before. So not even the first time they've went to this well.

Stele wrote:

Saw another tweet with pictures of those same women being interviewed before. So not even the first time they've went to this well.

Yeah, this has happened a bunch before.

CNN also had Richard Spencer on to comment about whether Trump tweets are racist, because asking the Nazi is a reasonable thing for a respectable news channel to do.

Edit: Er, OG_slingerhausered.

It was a rope and a tree shy of being a lynch mob.

Suuuuuuure....

Washington (CNN)President Donald Trump claimed Thursday to be unhappy that his rally crowd broke out into chants of "send her back" as he denigrated a Democratic lawmaker he'd previously said should leave the US.
"I was not happy with it. I disagree with it. But again, I didn't say that, they did," Trump said at the White House a day after the rally, when a crowded arena in North Carolina began the thundering chant as he assailed Rep. Ilhan Omar, a freshman Minnesota Democrat.
Trump's apparent disavowal came after expressions of concern from Republicans and outright outrage from Democrats, who accused the President of stoking racist sentiments among his white working class base.

Yeah right. He said "go back" not "send her back". Asshole.

Trump totally wasn't happy and disagreed with it even though it happened in the middle of his his five minute long rant about how horrible Rep. Omar was based largely on his purposeful misrepresentation of what she's said.

Trump wrote:

Representative Ilan Omar [Crowd boos.] of a really great state--that I almost won [for the] first time in decades and decades--Minnesota. Great state. [Crowd boos, Trump walks away from the podium for 40 seconds until the boos turn to applause and chants of "USA! USA!]

By the way, I keep hearing how much enthusiasm is in the radical left. I don't think they have enthusiasm. They're just fighting with each other. We have all of the enthusiasm. But it's true. We have the enthusiasm, folks. By the way, thousands and thousand of people outside who couldn't get in...thousands. We've got all the enthusiasm. They're fighting each other. They've gone so far left that nobody wants to even think about it.

So Representative Omar blamed the United States [Crowd boos.] for the terrorist attacks on our country, saying that terrorism is a reaction to our involvement in other people's affairs. She speared US service members involved in Black Hawk Down. In other words, she slandered the brave Americans who were trying to keep peace in Somalia.

Omar minimized the September 11th attacks on our homeland, saying "some people did something." I don't think so. "Some people did something." Yeah, some people did something alright.

She pleaded for compassion for ISIS recruits attempting to join the terrorist organization. She was looking for compassion.

Omar laughed that Americans speak of Al-Qaeda in a menacing tone and remarked that "you don't say 'America' with this intensity," you say "Al-Qaeda makes you proud." Al-Qaeda makes you proud! You don't speak that way about America.

And at a press conference just this week, when asked if she supported Al-Qaeda--that's our enemy, that's our enemy, they are a very serious problem that we take care of but they always seem to come along somewhere. She refused to answer. She didn't want to give an answer to that question.

Omar blamed the United States for the crisis in Venezuela. I mean, think of that one. And she looks down with contempt on the hard working Americans, saying that ignorance is pervasive in many parts of this country.

And obviously and importantly, Omar has a history of launching vicious anti-Semitic screeds. [Crowd chants "Send her back!" for 15 seconds while Trump looks on.] And she talked about the evil Israel and "it's all about the Benjamins." And that's not a good thing to say. So that's Omar. That's Omar.

And by the way, many other things. All you have to do is press the right button on your beautiful screen and you'll hear thing after thi--you didn't hear this over the past two days? Did you hear anybody talk about that?

Her colleague, Representative Rashida Tlaib [Crowd boos.], agreed with Omar's characterization of 9/11 and said that members of Congress who support Israel forgot what country they represent. And Tlaib also used the F-word to describe the presidency and your President. That's not nice, even for me. She was describing the President of the United States and the presidency with the big, fat, vicious--the way she said it, vicious--f-word. That's not somebody who loves our country.

I also love the part where he's talking about pressing the right button on his phone to get more fake news about Omar.

If he didn't approve of it, he probably should not have planned it.

@stuartpstevens wrote:

Lara Trump did a warm up act to cue the crowd for this chant. It was planned.

“Lara Trump, daughter-in-law of the president addressed the crowd before Trump spoke, saying: “If you don’t love our country — the president said it...”

“Leave!” the crowd replied.

quote really is not edit

quote is not edit

Is space an issue?

JeffreyLSmith wrote:
Gremlin wrote:
JC wrote:

If you want to be further amazed/flabbergasted by the level of... I don't even know the word, it's beyond cognitive dissonance... Watch the embedded video of the interview of the 8 women from Dallas that support Trump.

If it helps, they're not a random selection of Trump supporters:

WP: Just a random group of ‘Republicans’? CNN doesn’t tell the whole story about a Trump-loving panel

There’s no question that the panel of women CNN interviewed about President Trump liked him a lot and don’t think he’s a racist, despite a congressional resolution to the contrary on Tuesday. And no question the women are, as CNN identified them, “Republicans.”

But the network missed telling its viewers a few other things about the women it put on the air Tuesday night and Wednesday afternoon in a segment surveying their reaction to criticism of Trump.

The seemingly random group of eight women were, in fact, members of an organized group dedicated to promoting Trump. The group calls itself the Trumpettes of America 2019 Palm Beach Team, although CNN and correspondent Randi Kaye didn’t mention anything about such a group. Nor did the anchors, including Anderson Cooper, who introduced Kaye’s report.

The network simply identified the panelists individually, with their names appearing on screen next to the word “Republican.” Kaye also gave no hint that the women knew one another and had a common cause.

As a result, the segment left the impression that CNN had assembled a panel reflecting a cross-section of opinion from Republican women about the crossfire between Trump and four freshmen Democratic congresswomen of color, whom Trump told to “go back” to their own countries in his Sunday tweets despite all four being American citizens.

Rather than a cross-section, however, the Trumpettes were plainly of one mind.

WTF, CNN? Corporate journalism is garbage.

https://apple.news/AQLVRM77IRFKUGeoV...

Meh... it’s not like Trump supporters have a real ton of diversity here. They are all garbage.

A really, really great Twitter thread on how to, and not to, beat Trump in 2020 by Tim Wise. He compares the current situation to David Duke’s run for Senate and Governor in Louisiana.

https://twitter.com/timjacobwise/sta...

Jayhawker wrote:

A really, really great Twitter thread on how to, and not to, bear Trump in 2020 by Tim Wise. He compares the current situation to David Duke’s run for Senate and Governor in Louisiana.

https://twitter.com/timjacobwise/sta...

From his Twitter posts

27/ And what I know for a FACT is that this message--that Trumpism is a threat to everything we care about and love about this country--is what will inspire the Dem base to vote...and THAT is what this election is about...
I just mean, the left should stop pretending people make decisions based on rational policy ideas. Obviously "do the right thing!" But the right thing is standing up against racism and authoritarianism on principle...debating health care with a racist is absurd

So call Trump a racist/nationalist, use examples from the past 4 years, and run on the impact that another 4 years of him could have on the US. I can get behind that approach.

JC wrote:
Jayhawker wrote:

A really, really great Twitter thread on how to, and not to, bear Trump in 2020 by Tim Wise. He compares the current situation to David Duke’s run for Senate and Governor in Louisiana.

https://twitter.com/timjacobwise/sta...

From his Twitter posts

27/ And what I know for a FACT is that this message--that Trumpism is a threat to everything we care about and love about this country--is what will inspire the Dem base to vote...and THAT is what this election is about...
I just mean, the left should stop pretending people make decisions based on rational policy ideas. Obviously "do the right thing!" But the right thing is standing up against racism and authoritarianism on principle...debating health care with a racist is absurd

So call Trump a racist/nationalist, use examples from the past 4 years, and run on the impact that another 4 years of him could have on the US. I can get behind that approach.

Wow. So, prior to this thread, I never cared for Time Wise at all.

He always seemed like, to me, the "too woke" white guy talking about things that really weren't his stuff to talk about.

But he f*cking knocked this out of the park. He does an excellent job breaking down exactly how the Dems are going about 2020 all wrong and also exposing very racist motivations of the two major US political parties.

I highly recommend every one reading this thread take a few minutes and read that entire Twitter chain.

I disagree that focusing on issues doesn’t matter. I never saw Democrats moving more to the left as trying to win back Trump voters. The move to the left on some issues made sense to me because of the voters who don’t bother to vote because they don’t believe either party has their economic interests at heart.

I agree with the general sentiment but he’s putting the cart before the horse. We aren’t running against Trump yet, we’re still in the primaries. Right now we NEED to be talking about policy. We need people who will make the necessary changes to prevent conditions from generating another Trump. There will be time enough to viciously mock and deflate the ur-Trump next year. Start too early and it will just become background noise by the time Election Day rolls around.

ruhk wrote:

I agree with the general sentiment but he’s putting the cart before the horse. We aren’t running against Trump yet, we’re still in the primaries. Right now we NEED to be talking about policy. We need people who will make the necessary changes to prevent conditions from generating another Trump. There will be time enough to viciously mock and deflate the ur-Trump next year. Start too early and it will just become background noise by the time Election Day rolls around.

Right. The Dems' internal competition is about ideals and policies. The general is about removing this wanker from office.

I mean, look -- all the Dems are on the same page on Trump, so there's no way to differentiate them from one another on that. The only thing that can happen is getting into a debate about electability, which is just code for downplaying the women on the stage.

firesloth wrote:

I mean, look -- all the Dems are on the same page on Trump, so there's no way to differentiate them from one another on that. The only thing that can happen is getting into a debate about electability, which is just code for downplaying the women on the stage.

Mostly agree--though some currently elected Dems certainly don't seem all that enthusiastic about supporting impeachment, that's not a factor in the presidential primaries.

While everyone was looking at Mueller, three Republican Representatives announced that they weren't running in 2020.

U.S. Rep. Pete Olson, R-Sugar Land (TX), is bailing. Thanks to changing demographics in his district Olson went from winning by 30+ points in 2012 to barely eeking out a 5 point victory (and only 51% of the vote) in 2018. It's expected to be a highly competitive district for 2020.

U.S. Rep. Martha Roby, R-Montgomery (AL), is also stepping down. Roby withdrew her endorsement of Trump after the Access Hollywood video came out and, as a consequence, faced four Republican candidates in the 2018 primary. Her district, however, remains staunchly conservative. She is also one of the 13 women the GOP has in the House.

U.S. Rep. Paul Mitchell, R-Dryden Township (MI), announced his retirement after one term on Wednesday. He cited the 'rhetoric and vitriol" of Washington and complained that "Everything’s about politics. Everything’s about an election." He was upset about the time demands being a Representative placed on him and his family and complained that "there are too many people in this town that their entire life is revolved on being a member of Congress." He was also the first Republican to criticize Trump for his tweets about "The Squad." His district is R +13 and Trump won it by 32 points.

These retirements come on the heels of U.S. Rep. Susan Brooks, R-Carmel (IN), who announced her retirement last month. Ironically she is also the recruitment chair for the National Republican Congressional Committee and is responsible for finding 2020 GOP candidates. She won her district by 13 points in 2018, but that's down from the 30+ point victories she's had in previous elections.

Without Brooks and Roby there will only be 11 out of 199 Republican Representatives who are women. 89 of the 235 Democratic Representatives are women.