[Discussion] The (likely) Depressing Road to the 2020 Election Thread

It's going to be a circus.

Will 45 get impeached or step down or challenged? All 3? MAYBE.

Will the democrats eat themselves alive and hobble literally every potential candidate before the primaries are done? PROBABLY.

Talk about that junk here.

Everyone cheered when Harris called Biden on his sh*t, but apparently no one wants to see someone do it to all the candidates. Pretty much all of them need to be called out to some capacity. *Shrug*

A serious candidate calling others on their sh*t is different from a joke candidate doing it imo. Seems like the latter just adds to the Trump-style clown show.

Whereas I believe that with little exception, the election cycle has always been a Trump-style clown show, it just happened to get someone really good at playing the game in 2016. Even ignoring back in the early days when candidates would get into actual fights, elections have always been ridiculous. The primary issue in the news during the 2000 elections was that Gore wasn't someone people would feel comfortable getting a beer with, FFS. It affected the outcome of the election so much that most presidential campaigns since have felt it necessary to have a photo op of their candidate drinking beer.

Okay, so he gets on stage, points out their issues, and then vanishes into a historical footnote, and... what? The only people who will care already think the entire political process is screwed, so what good will this stunt do? Someone complaining that everyone is terrible is going to land with a thud. Especially if that person isn't serious about running for office and actually proving that they're different. He basically sounds like a petulant Facebook post about how nothing matters and everyone running is the worst, just well funded with donations that are SUPPOSED to be used in a legitimate campaign. Him explaining that it's all part of his plan doesn't make it any better, at least in my opinion. It's incredibly easy to stomp your feet and say, "Everyone is terrible," especially if you're not risking anything.

If there was 4-6 candidates this 'might' be useful. In this field it's just wasted space/bandwidth.

trichy wrote:

Okay, so he gets on stage, points out their issues, and then vanishes into a historical footnote, and... what? The only people who will care already think the entire political process is screwed, so what good will this stunt do? Someone complaining that everyone is terrible is going to land with a thud. Especially if that person isn't serious about running for office and actually proving that they're different. He basically sounds like a petulant Facebook post about how nothing matters and everyone running is the worst, just well funded with donations that are SUPPOSED to be used in a legitimate campaign. Him explaining that it's all part of his plan doesn't make it any better, at least in my opinion. It's incredibly easy to stomp your feet and say, "Everyone is terrible," especially if you're not risking anything.

ruhk wrote:
Sen. Gravel is running for president to bring a message of anti-imperialism and direct democracy to the Democratic debates. He is not seeking to contest any primaries, but rather to qualify for the debates, push the field toward sane views on American imperialism and the need for fundamental political reform, and then endorse the most progressive candidate. All campaign staffers are volunteers, and money is only being spent on campaign expenditures (such as airplane tickets and web hosting). All leftover funds will be donated to get clean water for Flint, Michigan.

Eh, whatever. I give up. Y'all just don't get it.

ruhk wrote:

Eh, whatever. I give up. Y'all just don't get it. :P

I mean, I think we all get it, we just disagree with the efficacy.

It's not necessarily the efficacy so much as the precedent. Take a look at how much Sanders has pushed the other candidates left, now imagine someone with actual leftist policies getting equal attention, if albeit briefly.

So Gravel wants to sea lion the debates?

Missing the haystack for the needle there, Jay.

ruhk wrote:

It's not necessarily the efficacy so much as the precedent. Take a look at how much Sanders has pushed the other candidates left, now imagine someone with actual leftist policies getting equal attention, if albeit briefly.

Sanders was (and continues to be) a credible candidate. That's why he's able to push the debate to the left, because he's competition.

Gravel will, rightly, be laughed off the stage.

ruhk wrote:

It's not necessarily the efficacy so much as the precedent. Take a look at how much Sanders has pushed the other candidates left, now imagine someone with actual leftist policies getting equal attention, if albeit briefly.

But he WON'T get equal attention, because he's not actually running. Most people won't know his name. As much as I dislike Sanders, he put in the work. He showed up at fundraisers, talked to millions of people, ate terrible chicken and answered questions. He WORKED to get people's attention, and that's why his talking points actually made people stop and think. A stunt won't do a damn thing. Protest candidates are nothing new, they just don't make an impact.

*shrug* Like I said, I give up. For real this time, I have to go to bed.

ruhk wrote:

Eh, whatever. I give up. Y'all just don't get it. :P

I largely agree with pushing Democrats left and even I don’t agree that having our own troll candidate is fairly useless.

Gravel will be as useful on that stage as Yang or Williamson. No thanks. I’ll save my cash and light it on fire or something useful like that.

I thought California's disastrous Prop 8 and Prop 187 (amongst others) had already done a pretty good of showing how poorly direct democracy ends up working. I'm not sure it really needs to be tossed into the tiny car at this point.

JC wrote:

I fail to see how this will move the needle at all. Especially since the goal/plan is known. It seems akin to putting a heckler on stage.

To me, it’s more like I’m unsatisfied with our current debate platform and would like it changed a bit. I want to see my future primary winner squirm a bit and have to go a little off script and still retain composure. That doesn’t happen enough as it is.

BlackSheep wrote:
JC wrote:

I fail to see how this will move the needle at all. Especially since the goal/plan is known. It seems akin to putting a heckler on stage.

To me, it’s more like I’m unsatisfied with our current debate platform and would like it changed a bit. I want to see my future primary winner squirm a bit and have to go a little off script and still retain composure. That doesn’t happen enough as it is.

I agree with you, I don't agree with putting a heckler on stage for no other reason than to heckle.

JC wrote:
BlackSheep wrote:
JC wrote:

I fail to see how this will move the needle at all. Especially since the goal/plan is known. It seems akin to putting a heckler on stage.

To me, it’s more like I’m unsatisfied with our current debate platform and would like it changed a bit. I want to see my future primary winner squirm a bit and have to go a little off script and still retain composure. That doesn’t happen enough as it is.

I agree with you, I don't agree with putting a heckler on stage for no other reason than to heckle.

The problem is with what viewers think debates are supposed to be. They want knockout punches, and politicians squirming. That is a bad debate. When politicians avoid questions and fail to provide specifics, that is useful information. The fact that we think we need it to be more like the Gong Show is the problem.

Harris rocketed up the polls, not just because she laid into Biden on race. That was a big moment, but, she had a ton of moments during the debate. She rocketed up the polls because she brought substance and charisma.

No, we don't need troll tactics introduced into the debates. We need viewers (and pundits) to stop treating them like sporting events. They are an exchange of ideas, and a showcase of how candidates respond to issues on the fly. I get why sports metaphors are used, but that doesn't mean the candidates should use sports strategy as a debate strategy.

But don't mind me, I'm too busy admiring the needles. I don't even know what a haystack is.

So Gravel is essentially the "None of the Above" candidate?

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)

Jayhawker wrote:
JC wrote:
BlackSheep wrote:
JC wrote:

I fail to see how this will move the needle at all. Especially since the goal/plan is known. It seems akin to putting a heckler on stage.

To me, it’s more like I’m unsatisfied with our current debate platform and would like it changed a bit. I want to see my future primary winner squirm a bit and have to go a little off script and still retain composure. That doesn’t happen enough as it is.

I agree with you, I don't agree with putting a heckler on stage for no other reason than to heckle.

The problem is with what viewers think debates are supposed to be. They want knockout punches, and politicians squirming. That is a bad debate. When politicians avoid questions and fail to provide specifics, that is useful information. The fact that we think we need it to be more like the Gong Show is the problem.

Harris rocketed up the polls, not just because she laid into Biden on race. That was a big moment, but, she had a ton of moments during the debate. She rocketed up the polls because she brought substance and charisma.

No, we don't need troll tactics introduced into the debates. We need viewers (and pundits) to stop treating them like sporting events. They are an exchange of ideas, and a showcase of how candidates respond to issues on the fly. I get why sports metaphors are used, but that doesn't mean the candidates should use sports strategy as a debate strategy.

But don't mind me, I'm too busy admiring the needles. I don't even know what a haystack is. :lol:

Look, I totally get that you want a debate to be this idealized, structured event that candidates flesh out policies that they’re planning on championing; however, political speak is a lot like coach speak (Jim Mora and Mike Singletary aside) where a script is always parsed and stuck to and nothing is ever really said except the same platitiudes. It’s awful and boring and accomplishes nothing except to waste my time.

Trump has proven you can have no substance up there and make people squirm. You’re running for THE highest stress job available. I want to see how you do under stress. For her part, I though Hillary did pretty well in handling Trumps juvenile tactics. It wasn’t a waste of a debate in my opinion at all

Jayhawker wrote:

I don't even know what a haystack is. :lol:

A haystack is what you get when you pile up a bunch of needles that are made of grass.

I feel like the concept that someone who isn't actually running is capable of pushing or pulling candidates left is a bit flawed. Candidates move in response to another candidate because of the threat of that candidate taking the presidency away from them. If there's no threat of the guy taking votes... why would anyone move response? I applaud what he's doing but i'd rather him be a serious candidate while doing it, i don;t see how its effective otherwise.

thrawn82 wrote:

I feel like the concept that someone who isn't actually running is capable of pushing or pulling candidates left is a bit flawed. Candidates move in response to another candidate because of the threat of that candidate taking the presidency away from them. If there's no threat of the guy taking votes... why would anyone move response? I applaud what he's doing but i'd rather him be a serious candidate while doing it, i don;t see how its effective otherwise.

Meh, I feel like I want a different kind of moderator I suppose. This kid glove approach that lets candidates simply spout watered down, generalized programs without actually having any sort of idealized plan for implementation, even a poor one that at least is a starting spot is what I’m missing. It’s great and all that Harris attacked Biden’s past legislative acquaintances, but it was only tangentially related to current policy. It’s only outlining that he’s a centrist. We all knew that already.

Forgive me if I don’t cheer having the 9/11 conspiracy theorist on a Democratic debate stage.

thrawn82 wrote:

I feel like the concept that someone who isn't actually running is capable of pushing or pulling candidates left is a bit flawed. Candidates move in response to another candidate because of the threat of that candidate taking the presidency away from them. If there's no threat of the guy taking votes... why would anyone move response? I applaud what he's doing but i'd rather him be a serious candidate while doing it, i don;t see how its effective otherwise.

Candidates will move when polling and public sentiment tell them to move. Public sentiment will move when a charismatic leader persuades the public to move.
In the absence of a good charismatic leader, a bad one will fill the vacuum and move public sentiment toward awfulness.

Zona wrote:

Forgive me if I don’t cheer having the 9/11 conspiracy theorist on a Democratic debate stage.

Oh man. You just don’t understand the 12D chess of the Gravel fans. /s

DSGamer wrote:
Zona wrote:

Forgive me if I don’t cheer having the 9/11 conspiracy theorist on a Democratic debate stage.

Oh man. You just don’t understand the 12D chess of the Gravel fans. /s

I don't condone it, but heaven forbid someone should be a conspiracy nutcase, 'cuz that's definitely worse than, for example, Harris with her history of transphobia and violating civil rights, or Biden with his history of fighting desegregation. Or Buttigieg with his history of facilitating racism and forced gentrification. Or...

I think the primary reason why I obviously find this Gravel more entertaining than most of the people here is because I'm like 80% convinced that we're going to get stuck with another dud candidate who Trump will trounce and leave us with another four years of regression. I'm willing to try anything to shake things up.

DSGamer wrote:
Zona wrote:

Forgive me if I don’t cheer having the 9/11 conspiracy theorist on a Democratic debate stage.

Oh man. You just don’t understand the 12D chess of the Gravel fans. /s

Which alt-right jackass that met at the White House is volunteering to do the same for the next debate? If we want to sh*t up the process, let's go whole hog. Maybe Santorum will jump in and help move the debate.

Because the right lesson to learn from 2016 is that trolls rule.

ruhk wrote:
DSGamer wrote:
Zona wrote:

Forgive me if I don’t cheer having the 9/11 conspiracy theorist on a Democratic debate stage.

Oh man. You just don’t understand the 12D chess of the Gravel fans. /s

I don't condone it, but heaven forbid someone should be a conspiracy nutcase, 'cuz that's definitely worse than, for example, Harris with her history of transphobia and violating civil rights, or Biden with his history of fighting desegregation. Or Buttigieg with his history of facilitating racism and forced gentrification. Or...

Based on my understanding of the candidates I'll agree outright with one of those examples, see sort of where you're coming from with another, and just be perplexed by the third. I mean I think Biden's history with desegregation should be disqualifying.

But if you are a f*cking 9/11 truther you don't deserve to be near power. Yes, heaven forbid someone who has such of a lack of critical thinking skills that they buy into conspiracy bullsh*t end up a contender for President. God only knows what else is lurking in the wings, I've yet to meet a conspiracy theorist who stops at just ONE. Worse then potato chips.

9/11 conspiracies in particular are something of a instant point of rage for me, so god knows I'm bias. Bad enough that Marianne Williamson is up there astral projecting anti-vax beliefs.