Stranger Things Netflix series catch-all

Paleocon wrote:

As for the Russians escaping, we don't really know that they did. It is pretty clear that Doc and his soldiers took pretty obvious steps to cover stuff up. It wouldn't be a stretch to say that he had his folks doubletap anyone that didn't look important and face bag anyone who did and disappear them to an equally shadowy American facility.

We had a whole montage of the US troops bursting into different rooms inside the base and finding them totally empty, though. It seemed pretty clear to me they were showing all the Reds were long gone.

Middcore wrote:
Paleocon wrote:

As for the Russians escaping, we don't really know that they did. It is pretty clear that Doc and his soldiers took pretty obvious steps to cover stuff up. It wouldn't be a stretch to say that he had his folks doubletap anyone that didn't look important and face bag anyone who did and disappear them to an equally shadowy American facility.

We had a whole montage of the US troops bursting into different rooms inside the base and finding them totally empty, though. It seemed pretty clear to me they were showing all the Reds were long gone.

Well.. Bald Eagle did a Red Alert, didn't he?

Stranger Things 4: SpaaAAAAaacer Things

Peoj Snamreh wrote:
Middcore wrote:
Paleocon wrote:

As for the Russians escaping, we don't really know that they did. It is pretty clear that Doc and his soldiers took pretty obvious steps to cover stuff up. It wouldn't be a stretch to say that he had his folks doubletap anyone that didn't look important and face bag anyone who did and disappear them to an equally shadowy American facility.

We had a whole montage of the US troops bursting into different rooms inside the base and finding them totally empty, though. It seemed pretty clear to me they were showing all the Reds were long gone.

Well.. Bald Eagle did a Red Alert, didn't he?

Yeah. But there were hella angry commies running into the control room right after Hopper's demise. Presumably there's some way out of the underground James Bond base besides that one elevator?

Something else that occurred to me today: was there any reference this season to where Billy and Max's parents are? At first I assumed Billy must have had them mind-flayed early on but Max never mentions them acting weird or being missing, and there's no indication Billy ever tried to get Max herself. And in the flash forward at the end of the last episode there's no indication Max is an orphan now or anything.

Were they just on vacation the week of the Fourth and didn't take Billy and Max with them?

I think we had more than enough of the wife beater in Billy's memories.

Stele wrote:

I think we had more than enough of the wife beater in Billy's memories.

It's not like I'm not asking to see more of him becuase he's my favorite character. I'm just saying their unexplained absence is strange.

I would have thought that Billy would have snatched abusive dad first.

I watched the first two episodes last night, and then just-one-more-episode'd my way through the rest of the season tonight.

Holy. Sh*t.

Spoiler:

I must be the only one who thinks Hopper is actually dead, and that the prisoner is someone else.

I think we all forgot from season 2 that Dr. Martin Brenner (Matthew Modine) is supposed to still be alive. If he were the prisoner, it would, to me, be the only reasonable explanation for why the Russians even knew about the portal to the upside-down, why they tried to open one themselves, had some way of knowing how it would work, AND would know exactly where to go to build the new attempt, when their first attempts in Russia failed.

I'm also probably going to be the only contrarian here who thinks that seasons 2 and 3 have basically been a retelling of the same story with slightly different window dressing each time.

NSMike wrote:

I'm also probably going to be the only contrarian here who thinks that seasons 2 and 3 have basically been a retelling of the same story with slightly different window dressing each time.

I think there's some truth to this, though I think of it more as Stranger Things as a series has a fairly limited set of tricks it pulls. They are good tricks, IMO, but they can get a little repetitive as they are utilized over and over.

Anyway, I just finished this one up. Initial thoughts:

Spoiler:

--The plotting is technically improved over last season, but I sort of found the construction of last season's narrative more interesting. This is a "me" thing though because I tend to prefer messier structures to masterclass Platonic plot forms, and I definitely give this season credit for being a masterclass on plotting.

--I'm uneasy with how the show handled both the politics of the era it is set in and the era it was created in. It did the thing where it seems to want to have something to say politically: everything from Erica's capitalism speech, to having a plot about Russians collaborating with government officials for sinister reasons... But, at the same time, I feel like it mostly goes out of its way to be apolitical. Mostly. There's a line Billy has that really bothered me, "You let us in here, now you have to let us stay." The idea of someone representing an "other" who has gained access to America and is determined to kill and replace all Americans is... A bit loaded in 2019. I don't think that line is at all necessary to advance the plot or inform character. Nor does it provide exposition. That makes it feel, to me, like it was put in expressly as a political statement. It could have been something else, sure. It might be a hangover from an earlier draft that served a different function at some point, but it feels careless and sloppy at best. Pretty awful and intentional at worst.

--On the other side of the coin, I thought the show did so much better with female characters this season than it has in the past.

--I wasn't much of a fan with how the show handled the newsroom staff - it was a lot of repeated beats (we get it, they are misogynistic jerks, no need to wallow there) - and I think there's a case to be made about awful Hopper comes off early on. I don't know that it served the character well. It felt off. (Totally comfortable with flawed characters, but there seemed to be something a little forced about the way he was written this season. The first two seasons served that character better.)

--The last two episodes were pretty great. They were very fun, satisfying to watch, and more tense than I was anticipating.

--Steve and Robin. Awesome.

--The show really did a disservice to Will this season. I feel like that character has been one (of the two) emotional cores of the series in a lot of ways. The actor is really solid for someone that age too, and this season he was reduced to touching the back of his neck and looking concerned. The set up of having all of your friends growing up and getting interested in romance while you just want things to stay the same is promising, but it sort of fizzles away without much pay off/lasting impact as the season progresses.

--El, who I think of as the other emotional core of the series, got way more interesting this season and had lots of great stuff to do and much more of an opportunity to flex her acting range. Having her without her powers for awhile feels like a terrific move that will serve the character well and set up a satisfying return to form moment.

--For all of my misgivings, I enjoyed it a lot.

TheHarpoMarxist wrote:
NSMike wrote:

I'm also probably going to be the only contrarian here who thinks that seasons 2 and 3 have basically been a retelling of the same story with slightly different window dressing each time.

I think there's some truth to this, though I think of it more as Stranger Things as a series has a fairly limited set of tricks it pulls. They are good tricks, IMO, but they can get a little repetitive as they are utilized over and over.

Anyway, I just finished this one up. Initial thoughts:

Spoiler:

--The plotting is technically improved over last season, but I sort of found the construction of last season's narrative more interesting. This is a "me" thing though because I tend to prefer messier structures to masterclass Platonic plot forms, and I definitely give this season credit for being a masterclass on plotting.

--I'm uneasy with how the show handled both the politics of the era it is set in and the era it was created in. It did the thing where it seems to want to have something to say politically: everything from Erica's capitalism speech, to having a plot about Russians collaborating with government officials for sinister reasons... But, at the same time, I feel like it mostly goes out of its way to be apolitical. Mostly. There's a line Billy has that really bothered me, "You let us in here, now you have to let us stay." The idea of someone representing an "other" who has gained access to America and is determined to kill and replace all Americans is... A bit loaded in 2019. I don't think that line is at all necessary to advance the plot or inform character. Nor does it provide exposition. That makes it feel, to me, like it was put in expressly as a political statement. It could have been something else, sure. It might be a hangover from an earlier draft that served a different function at some point, but it feels careless and sloppy at best. Pretty awful and intentional at worst.

--On the other side of the coin, I thought the show did so much better with female characters this season than it has in the past.

--I wasn't much of a fan with how the show handled the newsroom staff - it was a lot of repeated beats (we get it, they are misogynistic jerks, no need to wallow there) - and I think there's a case to be made about awful Hopper comes off early on. I don't know that it served the character well. It felt off. (Totally comfortable with flawed characters, but there seemed to be something a little forced about the way he was written this season. The first two seasons served that character better.)

--The last two episodes were pretty great. They were very fun, satisfying to watch, and more tense than I was anticipating.

--Steve and Robin. Awesome.

--The show really did a disservice to Will this season. I feel like that character has been one (of the two) emotional cores of the series in a lot of ways. The actor is really solid for someone that age too, and this season he was reduced to touching the back of his neck and looking concerned. The set up of having all of your friends growing up and getting interested in romance while you just want things to stay the same is promising, but it sort of fizzles away without much pay off/lasting impact as the season progresses.

--El, who I think of as the other emotional core of the series, got way more interesting this season and had lots of great stuff to do and much more of an opportunity to flex her acting range. Having her without her powers for awhile feels like a terrific move that will serve the character well and set up a satisfying return to form moment.

--For all of my misgivings, I enjoyed it a lot.

Thanks for your Masterclass of initial thoughts. Many of them match my thoughts as well.

Spoiler:

A great point on the Billy line. Certainly tone deaf. I would be shocked if it was intentional, but I have been shocked before. As to greater messages and statements, they seem to be trying to walk a fine line between homage, tongue in cheek "wink.wink.nudge.nudge," and commentary. I don't know if the Russians were apolitical as much as they were a full on homage and mimicry of the "Big Bad Russians" movies of the time that painted the Russian foes with a broad and shallow brush. They are the foes with bad motivations and that is it. To that end, I think they were spot on.

Fully agree on the newsroom and the repetitive nature. I guess it could be argued that they were seeking to channel Nine to Five (1980) or Working Girl (1988) vibe from the era, but it felt more likely to make us feel ok that the a-holes deserved getting smacked around later on. Agree on Hopper as well. The one payoff was with the Alexei Slurpee scene. The reveal that the stubborn jerk's instincts from his experience were correct was a great twist from his previous stubborn jerk moments. A great scene defying expectations of outcome but not sure they had to take him as far as they did earlier.

Women were great. They chewed up every scene. Maya Hawke was so fun she made me stop seeing her as a younger version of her mom (The Umabomber, for those unaware) after a few minutes and only see her as Robin. Alec Utgoff as Dr. Alexei was a joy to watch. So much communicated in expressions and body language. Loved every scene with him.

Spot on with Will. When given something to do, he was great.

I had no idea of Robin's real parentage, but now that I know, the scene of her laughing in the stall with Steve is a dead giveaway.

Re: Will... I'd agree that in a way he's been the emotional core in the prior seasons but that's because the other characters were always investing a lot of emotional energy in being afraid for him. I don't know if I'd say he's a terribly well-developed character apart from always being missing/endangered.

Don't misinterpret this as a critique of Noah Schnapp as an actor, I think he's a good one, but what exactly are Will's character traits besides constantly being in peril? Of the group he's "the quiet/sensitive one." It's hinted at he may be gay, or maybe he's just the slowest to hit puberty. That's about it?

(For the record, if we're being honest Mike also doesn't have a lot of character traits besides his relationship with El. Lucas and Dustin are both more well-rounded characters even if they've arguably been less prominent in the storyline. Actually Max is probably a more three-dimensional character than Mike or Will despite having one season less "experience" under her belt.)

I agree with the critique it's disappointing to see Will's role reduced to periodically touching the back of his neck after the first couple episodes, and the subplot they set up with Will not adapting well to his buddies getting girlfriends and having interests outside the stuff they've always done together doesn't really go anywhere besides hasty apologies. I wondered what they would do with him when they made it pretty clear they were giving him a break from being a monster plaything this season and the answer turned out to be "Not a lot." But it's better than a third season of him as a MacGuffin/pawn, I guess.

I mean, none of the characters really have a ton of traits. They all have enough on paper to meet the requirements of the tone and the genre (which revels in archetypes), and it is largely up to the actors to build up the inner life and imply greater depth. Schnapp does a great job of this, IMO. Particularly in Season 2, where he's presented with a number of active acting challenges as "the spy." Yeah, Will's the quiet, sensitive archetype, but I think his material in the first two seasons served him a lot better and gave Schnapp opportunities to flex his acting chops and make some acting choices. Not so much here.

When I talk about characters being emotion cores, what I mean is that they are a nexus point of stakes and audience sympathy. They are often not the lead character, or even the audience lens, but they are frequently the central character. The first season sets Will up in this role quite nicely. It wants us to be invested in him so when he's in danger we can feel the stakes, so they make him very likable early on. Even as the make Mike the "everyman, er, everynerd" character, we see Will right away as a sweet, good kid from a troubled, broken family that is struggling to get by. The script basically makes him a "Tiny Tim" in a lot ways before plunging him into a terrifying alternate dimension. They evolve the danger to him quite a bit in Season 2, and make him a lot more active. They've used him as the person in the most danger twice, so they certainly don't need to do that specifically, but they could have done better with him than they did (even if they kept the broad strokes of the stuff he was going through exactly the same.)

Still... If I see how quick and happily I totally binge'd all the seasons each time they came out... wow. Just Wow!

For me the show ranks up along Soprano's, Battlestar Galactica and Breaking Bad. Allthough these shows had some stretch-episodes. ST Season two only has one mweh episode with El meeting the other labrat.

Black Sails, Vikings, The Americans.. I bounced off all of the sooner or later.

Mad Men is still the pinacle of everything

Yeah just hope it sticks the ending better than BSG

Grenn wrote:

I had no idea of Robin's real parentage, but now that I know, the scene of her laughing in the stall with Steve is a dead giveaway.

Yeah, Ethan Hawke and Uma Thurman are not a bad kit of genetics, are they? That Onion link above on the capture of the Umabomber is still among my favorites from back when The Onion was just a free paper on the University of Wisconsin campus.

This Onion "News in Photos" from 1998. Hmmmm.

Stele wrote:

Yeah just hope it sticks the ending better than BSG

Yeah, me too. Though, I find that becomes less and less important to me if I have gotten great enjoyment out of a series, like I did with BSG and GoT.

Justified? That show nailed the crap out of the ending!

Okay, an admission and a question. First off the admission, I flat out cannot reliably remember that the demogorgon & mindflayer realm is called the Upside Down. Now the question, why for the love of all things Gygaxian wasn't the Upside Down called The Underdark? A coworker posited that it was because the underdark as a place in D&D lore didn't exist at the time, but the first campaign to feature it came out in 1978 Descent into the Depths of the Earth

Clumber wrote:

Okay, an admission and a question. First off the admission, I flat out cannot reliably remember that the demogorgon & mindflayer realm is called the Upside Down. Now the question, why for the love of all things Gygaxian wasn't the Upside Down called The Underdark? A coworker posited that it was because the underdark as a place in D&D lore didn't exist at the time, but the first campaign to feature it came out in 1978 Descent into the Depths of the Earth

This all came from Will's imagination and was from his 'custom' game. Plus besides the copyright issues, the Underdark is already an established world/area in the game. It doesn't fit with the description of the upside down.

Didn't they not start calling it the Upside Down until their discussion with Mr. Clarke where he uses the example of a bug walking on the underside of a tightrope? I didn't remember the term being from the D&D game at all.

The upside down is more like the Shadowfell than the Underdark

Also, the name came from the scene where Eleven flipped the game board upside down to describe where Will was

muttonchop wrote:

The upside down is more like the Shadowfell than the Underdark

Also, the name came from the scene where Eleven flipped the game board upside down to describe where Will was

Come to think of it... Maybe the upside down can be taken literally: we don't know yet what they are doing in Kamchatka

IMAGE(https://media2.giphy.com/media/vxph71PBDpZlgDkeXb/giphy.gif?cid=790b76115d28eea5516e5a3655b0e767&rid=giphy.gif)

All i'm saying is .... spinoff show with just those three, solving spooky crimes.

pyxistyx wrote:

All i'm saying is .... spinoff show with just those three, solving spooky crimes.

F*ck that. Spin-off show with those three doing ANYTHING.

bhchrist wrote:
pyxistyx wrote:

All i'm saying is .... spinoff show with just those three, solving spooky crimes.

F*ck that. Spin-off show with those three doing ANYTHING.

A spin off show discussing what show should have spinoffs. Meta.

I think the whole "You have to let us stay" thing was pretty much a dotted line leading to neo nazis, incels, and whackadoodle conspiracy theorists roped in and turned into violent zombies by YouTube and social media. If you extend the Russian meddling metaphor, it is a reference to the troll farm conspiracies taking on lives of their own.

bhchrist wrote:
pyxistyx wrote:

All i'm saying is .... spinoff show with just those three, solving spooky crimes.

F*ck that. Spin-off show with those three doing ANYTHING.

Very True, BUT I'm convinced there's definitely a Scooby Doo-esque "It was old man Comrade Koplonskie all along" type dealie with their name on it.

pyxistyx wrote:
bhchrist wrote:
pyxistyx wrote:

All i'm saying is .... spinoff show with just those three, solving spooky crimes.

F*ck that. Spin-off show with those three doing ANYTHING.

Very True, BUT I'm convinced there's definitely a Scooby Doo-esque "It was old man Comrade Koplonskie all along" type dealie with their name on it.

Maybe through in Susie as a Charlie's Angels Charlie type character. Or better yet, a Batman's Oracle where Dusty has to sing to get information.