The GWJ JRPG Club - Q3 2019 - Tactics Ogre! ["Gaiden" Game]

Alright. Gold Lions (my squad) going to tell me where the light is

And paralysis starts. Got to go shopping and make sure I got some decent gear.

Just want to make a note that I'm a big dumb idiot who went into the necromancer fight, completely forgetting that I was given a sum of money to equip my army with things other than butter knives.

That was hard.

I did the necromancer fight with some equipment, but the whole system for learning magic hadn't dawned on me, so all my healers and mages were twiddling their thumbs most of the time. Once I realized that Grimores = learning spells, I went back to town and stocked up. I'm ready for any new undead that come my way.

Oof, so I didn't do the necromancer fight. I did the one before it, and when I got to the actual fight (the one with the really high walls), I got completely demolished.

I'm still grappling with all the systems the game has to offer. Equipment helped a little bit, but not enough. I fought two random battles and gained some levels, this let me equip some extra abilities which I think will help a lot.

Just so I have this right, abilities are learned once...But the ability itself levels up over time as you use it more? I noticed skills like Anatomy grant extra damage against humans (awesome) but don't state exactly how much. I also noticed an experience bar next to it.

Damn this game is dense. In plot and mechanics. I'm very overwhelmed but excited to learn it. It seems like a perfect game to crack as a group!

A_Unicycle wrote:

Oof, so I didn't do the necromancer fight. I did the one before it, and when I got to the actual fight (the one with the really high walls), I got completely demolished.

I'm still grappling with all the systems the game has to offer. Equipment helped a little bit, but not enough. I fought two random battles and gained some levels, this let me equip some extra abilities which I think will help a lot.

Just so I have this right, abilities are learned once...But the ability itself levels up over time as you use it more? I noticed skills like Anatomy grant extra damage against humans (awesome) but don't state exactly how much. I also noticed an experience bar next to it.

Damn this game is dense. In plot and mechanics. I'm very overwhelmed but excited to learn it. It seems like a perfect game to crack as a group!

I'm very much in the same place mentally, except a couple of fights before you. It feels to me like the game assumes I know a lot of things about the mechanics and history, but unfortunately I don't know them. I feel like I've been asked to organize a family reunion for a family I don't know in a culture I'm unfamiliar with.

But each time I play I make tangible progress with understanding how things work. Sundown's post clued me in to how to buy spells. I wasn't aware of how to do that either.

Last night I spent some time putzing around with my characters. Skills make more sense now. Magic makes more sense now. Equipment is starting to come together. I'm still very much unsure as to what skills, magic, classes are good to focus on, but I look forward to figuring that out by playing.

A couple of quick questions...

Do guests just get restored to full health after a battle in which they die? One of my guests in my last battle went all Leroy Jenkins on me, and I couldn't protect him before he died in battle. He vanished immediately, and I assumed I had killed him off. But at the end of the battle he was just fine, sitting in my group of characters as if all was wonderful with the world. And he doesn't have the three hearts icon at all, just lists him as a guest.

How do random battles work? I went back to a location I previously fought in, where I thought I had gotten a message about being able to return to the location to fight again. But nothing happened, and I didn't see an option to start a battle there again. Then I went back to one previous location and triggered a small plot conversation. After that I came back to the location where I had tried to trigger a battle and one just started automatically there. So do random battles just happen by going back and forth over locations you've been to previously, or is there a way to force them to happen at certain locations?

They happen in already explored non-town/castle locations randomly when you pass through the area. Also, you can just retreat if you don't want to take on the battle. There's even an optional area that opens up in Ch 2 that allows you to take part in short battles to grind for loot/xp/skill pts. In general, random battles tend to be over much more quickly than story battles and, since they yield the the same skill pts (fixed per battle), then they can be useful for just unlocking that one more skill you need.

There do seem to be points in the story where random encounters just do not happen no matter how many times you pass through the area. So you could be at one of those points.

For guest characters, since they're controlled by the AI, you do tend to lose them often in battle. It is worth trying to keep them alive because they'll earn skill points surviving the battle which you can use to unlock skills to make them more useful, their class will level up, and also, they may become a permanent party member in the future (no spoilers) so you'll be glad you were able to get a few skills unlocked early in the game.

Godzilla Blitz wrote:
A_Unicycle wrote:

Oof, so I didn't do the necromancer fight. I did the one before it, and when I got to the actual fight (the one with the really high walls), I got completely demolished.

I'm still grappling with all the systems the game has to offer. Equipment helped a little bit, but not enough. I fought two random battles and gained some levels, this let me equip some extra abilities which I think will help a lot.

Just so I have this right, abilities are learned once...But the ability itself levels up over time as you use it more? I noticed skills like Anatomy grant extra damage against humans (awesome) but don't state exactly how much. I also noticed an experience bar next to it.

Damn this game is dense. In plot and mechanics. I'm very overwhelmed but excited to learn it. It seems like a perfect game to crack as a group!

I'm very much in the same place mentally, except a couple of fights before you. It feels to me like the game assumes I know a lot of things about the mechanics and history, but unfortunately I don't know them. I feel like I've been asked to organize a family reunion for a family I don't know in a culture I'm unfamiliar with.

But each time I play I make tangible progress with understanding how things work. Sundown's post clued me in to how to buy spells. I wasn't aware of how to do that either.

It's funny that you mention this. I kind of assumed that knowledge of the two Ogre Battle games would carry over, but this one is so different mechanically that I don't think it helps all that much.

Reading this thread has been very helpful, I just got to the point where I can start buying things, so some research is in order

Fastmav347 wrote:

Reading this thread has been very helpful, I just got to the point where I can start buying things, so some research is in order

Key thing I keep forgetting: when buying new weapons or spells, a character has to be of the right class and at a certain level. Usually it will say in the top right corner of a weapons stat box what the level requirement is, but I keep overlooking that and buying stuff my guys can't use yet. Same with spells, I bought a bunch of light and dark spells that are level 6 or 8, and my levels are 3 or 4.

And it looks like a character has to be able to use that element to be able to use magic. For instance, my cleric can use divine magic. I can also give her a fire spell, but none of her skills are for Fire Magic, so even if I teach her the spell, she can't use it. Similarly had a warrior use a grimiore to cast a fire spell in one battle and got a message that he had learned the spell (and it fizzled in the rain, which was a nice touch), but it was nowhere in his action list to cast natively. I only realized why after messing around in the menus some more and saw that they have to have the Air Magic or Fire Magic skill (and you have to learn and assign it) to be able to cast it natively. The Wizard and the Rune Fencer seem to be able to learn a variety of spells.

LastSurprise wrote:

It's funny that you mention this. I kind of assumed that knowledge of the two Ogre Battle games would carry over, but this one is so different mechanically that I don't think it helps all that much.

I think Final Fantasy Tactics is a better comparison than the Ogre Battle games (although Tactics Ogre Knight of Lodis is probably very similar to this) in terms of mechanics and game style.

Having only played this game I do wonder how the other Tactics Ogre games compare. And where is the next Tactics Ogre game?!

It’s definitely similar to Knight of Lodis.

Tagging this thread because even though I’ve beaten the game and have no intent to replay it, I’m interested to hear what everyone has to say.

Don’t sleep on the strength of the Octopus as a party member.

A_Unicycle wrote:

Just want to make a note that I'm a big dumb idiot who went into the necromancer fight, completely forgetting that I was given a sum of money to equip my army with things other than butter knives.

That was hard.

When I read this I was kind of amazed but your later post gives perspective. Also, I read about your butter knives just after I spent an hour upgrading all my gear to +1 using the archaic crafting mechanic. I upgraded all my rings only to realise they now have a level 15 requirement! Whoops...

I remember broad strokes of the story but little else so it’s definitely like I’m enjoying it all over again. The game has totally got its hooks into me. Just one more battle!

Well, I just finished up the second battle after becoming the Hero of Golyat. It's the one where you fight the necromancer's apprentice.

It's interesting to see the game try to teach its mechanics. In a cutscene before the battle, an NPC failed to exorcise some undead; he comments that he must need to "still" them (i.e., knock them out) first. Then he joined me as a guest. But although he and Catiua both have the exorcism ability, neither of them actually would use it on the undead I knocked out! Still, their numbers weren't so overwhelming in that fight that I needed exorcism. Guidance for the fight ahead, I guess.

Canopus was the all-star, flying behind enemy lines to snipe the boss. I upgraded him to a crossbow, after the fight.

I can confirm that allies don't lose a heart unless, after they are knocked out, their countdown clock expires. I had one guy on death's door, but he had all three hearts after I finished.

And I discovered a couple useful mechanics. First, when shopping, you can press square and left or right to show, at a glance, which classes can use the gear or spell, and if there is a level requirement. Second, in the army menu, you can press triangle to sort by class, and the game will show you all of the classes you've encountered so far, and whether the class can use the gear, spells, or skills that you've encountered so far. I'm a big fan of menus like this, that fill out as access more stuff.

I've finished Ch. 1.

The fight against the real Necromancer is a lot easier after you continue the story a bit. I tried it as soon as it was available, and was losing a war of attrition. I circled back once everyone was about level 6 or 7, and playing whack-a-mole was very manageable, and actually kind of fun.

Now, for end of chapter spoilers. Emphasis on spoilers.

Spoiler:

I wound up taking the Law route. My first reaction was there was no way I would participate in the massacre, but then I kind of wanted to see where this would take the story, so I rolled with it. Vyce bailed on me, but I always kind of thought he would. And based on the start of the Ch.2 set up, it looks like the Duke's gambit to unite the Walister worked, but I fully expect it to get exposed at some point. Maybe we do stay loyal to him through this whole thing, but he has "THIS IS GOING TO KEEP GETTING WORSE" written all over him, so I'll see how this plays out.

I was also able to keep Ravness alive during the fight, and she fled when all the other enemies were defeated. She was manageable as long as I could keep her asleep, but then the AI sister kept attacking her and waking her up. She had incapacitated 3 characters by the end of the mission, and the timer was about to run out on one of them when I killed the last enemy. That was a pain.

I’ve been able to squeeze in a couple of more battles and some time upgrading my party over the past couple of days. It’s only been about an hour in total, but I feel like things are starting to come together with the various mechanics. I fought a random battle that was quite easy, then cleared one more of the story battles (not the one at the second castle, went a different way).

I’ve been working on figuring out RT a bit, and now have a basic understanding of how that works.

On the “buy” screen for weapons and whatnot, there are often numbers on the lower right beside certain attributes. For example, DEX 2 or something. I’m not sure what those numbers mean. Are they skill minimums required, or bonuses given, or penalties applied. Sometimes they are red too. I assume the color matters?

In any case, I’m enjoying unwrapping the various systems and feel like my confusion level has dropped from an 8 to a 3 now. Skill level is still low, but at least I feel like I’m figuring out how things work in the game.

I've done the very first battle after the tutorial after reading all the tutorials the game gives you in the Warren Report for about 2 hours. Still getting a grip on the game and all its mechanics.

As LastSurprise pointed out, the Square + directional buttons are really useful. Lets you page through screens to get more information, zoom in/out on maps, etc.

@Godzilla Blitz the numbers on the items mean that item will affect those stats. If a number is red, it will decrease that stat instead of increasing it.

Apparently all attacks do either piercing, slashing, or crushing damage, and spells have elements. Enemies are weak/strong against certain types of attacks, not sure if it matters this early on.

You can press the select button on just about any screen to bring up a help overlay that lets you switch between different areas onscreen to get more information.

Apparently all attacks do either piercing, slashing, or crushing damage, and spells have elements. Enemies are weak/strong against certain types of attacks, not sure if it matters this early on.

I noticed this and assumed that's why the lizardmen were taking no damage from anything but hammers, but I couldn't see their resistance. Weird.

A simple tip. Hit select if you want a “what’s that?” explanation.

Sundown wrote:

I've finished Ch. 1.
..
Now, for end of chapter spoilers. Emphasis on spoilers.

Spoiler:

I wound up taking the Law route. My first reaction was there was no way I would participate in the massacre, but then I kind of wanted to see where this would take the story, so I rolled with it. Vyce bailed on me, but I always kind of thought he would. And based on the start of the Ch.2 set up, it looks like the Duke's gambit to unite the Walister worked, but I fully expect it to get exposed at some point. Maybe we do stay loyal to him through this whole thing, but he has "THIS IS GOING TO KEEP GETTING WORSE" written all over him, so I'll see how this plays out.

I was also able to keep Ravness alive during the fight, and she fled when all the other enemies were defeated. She was manageable as long as I could keep her asleep, but then the AI sister kept attacking her and waking her up. She had incapacitated 3 characters by the end of the mission, and the timer was about to run out on one of them when I killed the last enemy. That was a pain.

I'm actually into Ch 3, but deliberately didn't play today because it already feels like I'm getting too far ahead. Still, I'd be interested in doing at least both Law and Chaos routes before the club wraps up.

I'm actually surprised you took the Law route, I did too. End of Ch 1 spoilers:

Spoiler:

Choosing to try to prevent the massacre feels truer to what we know about Vyce and Denam's character up to that point and that's what I chose the first time I beat the game way back. I thought I'd be a bit contrary and go law this time but apparently not!

Anyway, Vyce is such a hot head, and just seems fixated on revenge the whole of Ch 1, so his instant and strong rebuttal to Denam's agreement to go along with the plan feels a little false. Especially after he criticised the miners directly for not agreeing to join the rebellion. However, I feel like Ch 2 does give a bit more perspective on Vyce's decision that you don't really get in Ch 1.

In general I like how the game says "Here are 2 choices, they both suck, now pick one."

Any thoughts on the Rune Fencer/Valkyrie class? You get one as part of an early batch of recruits. He defaults to spear and air magic. The range of the spear is kind of nice for avoiding counterattacks but, otherwise, he doesn't do as much damage as your other melee characters. And his air magic is pretty ineffective compared to your dedicated spell caster (who starts as dark but I guess you can switch him easily enough). Jack of all trades, master of none?

Anyway, as my party has increased in size, I've been leaving him on the sidelines, but that just means that the Rune Fencer class is starting to fall behind in levels.

I just finished the Necromancer apprentice fight, so far so good.

Mr GT Chris wrote:

Any thoughts on the Rune Fencer/Valkyrie class? You get one as part of an early batch of recruits. He defaults to spear and air magic. The range of the spear is kind of nice for avoiding counterattacks but, otherwise, he doesn't do as much damage as your other melee characters. And his air magic is pretty ineffective compared to your dedicated spell caster (who starts as dark but I guess you can switch him easily enough). Jack of all trades, master of none?

Anyway, as my party has increased in size, I've been leaving him on the sidelines, but that just means that the Rune Fencer class is starting to fall behind in levels.

Mine is pretty mediocre so far, but occasionally the spells do damage. I usually keep the Rune Fencer around to keep his level up and drop one of my clerics, since I'm assuming the Rune Fencers will matter at some point.

I'm also waiting for more advanced classes to start showing up,. I flipped Denam over to a Berzerker, but since it started him over at level 1 (I didn't have any other berzerkers at that point) he was doing no damage. One battle got him to level 3 which was enough to use the next set of weapons, so I hope he'll get caught up enough quickly. I'm guessing I'll need to juggle classes in the future to keep some leveled enough that they aren't dead weight.

And that's another interesting thing. I usually sell off all the old weapons to make some quick cash, but then when you change to a class you haven't used before you have to go back and buy it again since they can only use level 1 weapons, armor, etc. Not really a problem, just a minor road bump.

Sundown wrote:
Mr GT Chris wrote:

Any thoughts on the Rune Fencer/Valkyrie class? You get one as part of an early batch of recruits. He defaults to spear and air magic. The range of the spear is kind of nice for avoiding counterattacks but, otherwise, he doesn't do as much damage as your other melee characters. And his air magic is pretty ineffective compared to your dedicated spell caster (who starts as dark but I guess you can switch him easily enough). Jack of all trades, master of none?

Anyway, as my party has increased in size, I've been leaving him on the sidelines, but that just means that the Rune Fencer class is starting to fall behind in levels.

Mine is pretty mediocre so far, but occasionally the spells do damage. I usually keep the Rune Fencer around to keep his level up and drop one of my clerics, since I'm assuming the Rune Fencers will matter at some point.

I'm also waiting for more advanced classes to start showing up,. I flipped Denam over to a Berzerker, but since it started him over at level 1 (I didn't have any other berzerkers at that point) he was doing no damage. One battle got him to level 3 which was enough to use the next set of weapons, so I hope he'll get caught up enough quickly. I'm guessing I'll need to juggle classes in the future to keep some leveled enough that they aren't dead weight.

And that's another interesting thing. I usually sell off all the old weapons to make some quick cash, but then when you change to a class you haven't used before you have to go back and buy it again since they can only use level 1 weapons, armor, etc. Not really a problem, just a minor road bump.

I would sell the coins you get as spoils. 250 per coins isn't too bad.

Regarding the coins, especially the copper and bronze ones, make sure to keep selling them as your inventory maxes out at 99 so any coins past that are wasted. If you don't keep on top of this, then every 2-3 battles you'll be wasting money.

Just finished the Necromancer battle, and boy does that fight suck. I feel like the proper way to do this battle is to just buy a ton of Exorcise scrolls and then have whoever can just use one to remove the skeletons. Saving up to 34 MP is almost impossible with 3 skeletons sniping you with bows and ghosts plastering you with spells. I only managed to get two Exorcises off, one from a scroll and the other because I used an MP leaf. And the archer skeletons still came back to life. I am going to have to start thinking about battles a lot differently than I did for FFT.

Absolutely. From around this battle, the first move of my magic users was to use a magic herb for 25mp. Soon after that, I gave them all Alchemy I so they could use the +2 herb for 75mp.

I tried the necromancer fight and got wrecked. Then I went back to Duke Ronwey’s base, and I got tasked with another mission (get a non-aggression pact with Bakram, so I can focus on the Galgastani), which opened up a few maps northeast of the base. I’m going to do those, then circle back to the necromancer. Maybe some more levels, skills, and better gear will make it easier.

Did the first mission along that alternate path; it wasn’t too bad. The second mission, though, was tough. The enemy was fighting with some AI controlled woman, and I made the choice to help her. So, if she died, it was game over. But, she didn't make any effort to heal herself, and she wouldn’t move closer to my force. Meanwhile, the enemy had a large dragon that hit like a wrecking ball, didn’t take much damage, and seemed to block movement. I couldn’t get to the woman in time to really help her, and lost.

So I went back to re-equip, got into a random fight, and earned a few more skill points. I put Field Alchemy on Canopus. He’s the only one who was able to reach her, and I’m hoping he will be able to help her out with some better healing items.

I've done the same thing as you, LS, except that I've only done the first battle on the path to the northeast.

Thanks for all the tips and information, everyone. Much helpful. I've made a note to check out the square + direction help too.

I started to play some last night before sleep but was nodding off pretty quickly. Vacation can be tiring. I hope to get back at it tonight some.

LastSurprise wrote:

So I went back to re-equip, got into a random fight, and earned a few more skill points. I put Field Alchemy on Canopus. He’s the only one who was able to reach her, and I’m hoping he will be able to help her out with some better healing items.

Yes, that's what I did. That fight is super annoying because there is no context on why it's a game over condition. Of course we can assume that character will be part of the story later but at that time we've never met them before. And there are other similar battles where the character can die and it just means you won't see them again or maybe won't be able to recruit them later.

Another tip, once your clerics are level 10 you should get the Boon of Swiftness (haste) scroll. It makes these kind of rescue ops much easier.