Help me build my PC 2017 Catch All

Is it worth paying an extra $60-80 to buy a new card, with store warranty, etc, if the card is this HIS one?

It seems to have all the boxes ticked, but appears to be a lot cheaper than it's competitors, and I'm wondering if that is for a reason?

AU$295.00 HIS Radeon RX580 IceQ X2 OC 8GB GDDR5

Other 580 carried by the store:
AU$459.00 Sapphire Radeon RX580 Nitro+ OC 8GB GDDR5

I'm only going to be using this on a 24" single monitor setup 1080p as the target, playing emulation, possibly moving up to the PS2/Gamecube era, and a Steam library circa 2012/13 (or maybe this will give me an excuse to go crazy at the next Steam Sale ).

From what I can find the HIS has very, very, very slightly lower performance than the Sapphire.

HIS vs Sapphire

But just to be perfectly fair to the other cards....

HIS 480 vs HIS 580

HIS 470 vs HIS 580

Just wanted to show that the increase in performance might not be worth the extra money, however I would probably err on the side of dealing with an actual store that I could send things back to rather than save money and not have that protection.

Thanks for those. I can sort of see where some of the dollars would go too.

Semi conductor size not being as small, so not as expensive/intensive to fabricate, that sort of thing. Sapphire has more Tech in the casing from what I can tell too, intelligent fan speeds, and stuff like that.

Looks like there is a good deal of difference in the length of the card too, and that's the first place I've seen it consistently listed, so I can pop my case, and check out the available space.

I figured GPU and PSU were the two items I really wanted to be confident in not having been abused or overused, and I'm only going to see that if I buy new.

EDIT: just checked, it's 258mm from the HDD cage to the card slot brackets on the back of the case. Looks like the Sapphire is 2mm too long

So I am having a weird issue. I installed some additional RAM in my PC. I already had 16 gb and was given another 16 for my birthday so I decided to put it in. The RAM is identical to what was already in the PC. However once I put it in, my whole PC started booting very slow and reset the BIOS a couple times. I pulled the new RAM back out and had the same issues. So I put it back in and pulled the battery to completely reset. Then went in and reconfigured the BIOS. I have started it up a few times and it seems to keep the BIOS settings but is still super slow, it hangs at the BIOS screen for a good 30 seconds or so then will get to the point where the login window is about to come up and will hang for another 15 - 20 seconds. I have updated to the latest BIOS version prior to the install of the new memory. The board is a Gigabyte AB350 Gaming 3, RAM is Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR-3000 Any thoughts?

A quick google showed that some folks are having voltage issues with this board and AMD Vega graphics cards. What are you using for graphics? It could be you need a bigger PSU...?

I have a Gigabyte X470 Aorus Gaming, and when I mess with the RAM settings it reboots funny a few times but then eventually gets into Windows and boots normally from then on. Are you sure you don't just need to be more patient?

Asterith wrote:

I have updated to the latest BIOS version prior to the install of the new memory.

This is the thing that has changed that was not changed back. This would be at the top of my suspect list.

Robear wrote:

A quick google showed that some folks are having voltage issues with this board and AMD Vega graphics cards. What are you using for graphics? It could be you need a bigger PSU...?

I have a Geforce card and I think the power isn't an issue since things didn't get better once i pulled the new RAM.

apaksl wrote:

I have a Gigabyte X470 Aorus Gaming, and when I mess with the RAM settings it reboots funny a few times but then eventually gets into Windows and boots normally from then on. Are you sure you don't just need to be more patient?

This could possibly be part of it. I only restarted a few times so I'll keep an eye out.

*Legion* wrote:

This is the thing that has changed that was not changed back. This would be at the top of my suspect list.

I never even considered updating the bios could have caused issues. I also had a fairly big jump from bios version F7 to F31. I'll definitely do a little digging to see if maybe this is the issue too.

Thanks all for the input so far!

Time to tap into all the amazing knowledge in this thread. I've read the last several pages but couldn't find the info I need but I will keep looking, the discussions here are fascinating.

In the meantime, I wonder if you guys can help me out.

My current gaming PC is from 2013 IIRC. Parts of it were upgraded over time but I feel that maybe it's time for a more drastic upgrade, as I am getting some weird behaviors, reliability is not really there anymore and it's starting to annoy me.

I am planning to reuse a lot of my current components (geforce 1070, SSDs, 1440p monitor, probably the Corsair 750 power box), which means that I need to upgrade the CPU, motherboard and case.

Which parts should I get to be fairly future proof and get great 1440p performance? Money is, of course, a consideration but not a huge one. I think I like Intel - haven't had AMD components pretty much ever IIRC.

After having spent like a decade being relevant, AMD has actually been killing it the last few years and has really put Intel on the back foot. As there is a whole new line of AMD CPUs and GPUs releasing July 7, I would strongly recommend holding off until then to upgrade, if you can wait. When that line of CPUs comes out it will probably pull down the prices of current gen AMD and even Intel CPUs.

Yes, AMD will offer you better value right now, and they've been steadily closing the gap with Intel in gaming performance (and have matched/exceeded Intel in workload performance). Strongly consider giving their offerings a look even if you've always been an Intel person.

When you say "great 1440p performance," what is your standard for great? The most important component for 1440p gaming is your GPU, and your 1070 is probably sufficient for a while longer if you aren't targeting more than 60fps. You aren't going to meaningfully beat its performance with any card currently on the market or on the near horizon without spending ~$500. I know you said money isn't a major factor but for us to make intelligent recommendations it would help to have some idea of how much you're willing to splurge.

Really you could get a CPU and motherboard combo (either Intel with the i5-9400f or AMD with the Ryzen 5 2600) for around $200-250 that would at least match the single-thread performance of your circa 2013 Intel parts and probably be more future-proof by virtue of having more threads.

^^ What they said.

For the last couple of years, buying Intel has only made sense if you're buying the top-end gaming chip and you're willing to pay a premium for it. AMD has offered the best price/performance ratio for almost every tier beneath that.

With the Ryzen 3000 line, though we're waiting for final benchmarks, it looks like even that segment will be lost to Intel. And it's pretty much a certainty that AMD is going to just widen the gap further for the price/performance battle in the rest of the tiers.

Intel is not the smart money buy.

It's an interesting thought, apaksl. I didn't realize new AMD CPUs are coming this soon. On the other hand, though, how much time it will take realistically to affect the market?

It does make sense to consider. I could live with my system's quirks for another month or two, if can I deal with the overheating problem my CPU (Sandy Bridge i7) started to experience. The temps go up to 95 degrees C under load, sounds excessive. My case sucks though, replacing the stock heatsink+fan with a better product is pretty much out of the question - I would need to disassemble and re-assemble the entire thing, remove the motherboard, etc. and I don't have the energy to do it for a 6+ years old system.

Could re-sitting the existing heatsink+fan help? The fan seems ok, spins at 3000 RPM IIRC.

Hedinn wrote:

Could re-sitting the existing heatsink+fan help? The fan seems ok, spins at 3000 RPM IIRC.

That's pretty much the first thing you should do when you're getting high CPU temperatures but your cooler otherwise seems to be working. Remove it, clean off all the old thermal compound, reapply fresh high-quality paste, and reinstall.

It's an interesting thought, apaksl. I didn't realize new AMD CPUs are coming this soon. On the other hand, though, how much time it will take realistically to affect the market?

If its GPUs, Nvidia will come out with a new SKU to gut any AMD momentum within days or even prior to release.

With CPUs, it doesn't matter since intel is slow to match, at which point the AMD is still a better buy. Its the choice between AMD being a really good buy and a great buy depending on how/whether intel adapts.

Hedinn wrote:

It's an interesting thought, apaksl. I didn't realize new AMD CPUs are coming this soon. On the other hand, though, how much time it will take realistically to affect the market?

It does make sense to consider. I could live with my system's quirks for another month or two, if can I deal with the overheating problem my CPU (Sandy Bridge i7) started to experience. The temps go up to 95 degrees C under load, sounds excessive. My case sucks though, replacing the stock heatsink+fan with a better product is pretty much out of the question - I would need to disassemble and re-assemble the entire thing, remove the motherboard, etc. and I don't have the energy to do it for a 6+ years old system.

Could re-sitting the existing heatsink+fan help? The fan seems ok, spins at 3000 RPM IIRC.

It could help if you apply new thermal paste. 6 years is well past the effective lifespan of any thermal compound, let alone whatever cheap gunk Intel uses on their stock heatsinks. The stock Intel heatsink was only ever borderline adequate for an i7, even without overclocking.

I must admit I don't quite follow the logic that says disassembling a 6 year old system for better cooling isn't worth it but building a whole new system (and transferring some of the parts from the old one which will mean partway disassembling it anyway) IS worth it, but I of all people have no grounds to question someone else's justification for an upgrade.

Wow, so many responses so fast, thank you, guys!

Middcore wrote:

I must admit I don't quite follow the logic that says disassembling a 6 year old system for better cooling isn't worth it but building a whole new system (and transferring some of the parts from the old one which will mean partway disassembling it anyway) IS worth it, but I of all people have no grounds to question someone else's justification for an upgrade.

I admit that my logic is probably flawed and is mostly purely psychological. Even maybe I am just looking for an excuse to upgrade.

In my mind, re-assembling the old system is less worth it because, as a result, I will end up with the same system that runs a bit colder. With all its quirks, like not shutting down sometimes and games unable to initialize the graphics card (after the PC has been on for about a day and until I restart it). And with only 2 ports for SSDs.

Doing a similar amount of work to build a (mostly) new PC will give me a nice fresh system that runs (hopefully) faster and flawlessly.

I think the new AMD GPU's launching July 7th will be good buys.. they should be marginally cheaper than the 2060 and 2070 and perform roughly the same. I know Nvidia marketing is tough to overcome but in the midrange camp we would all do well to buy AMD for a while.

*Legion* wrote:
Hedinn wrote:

Could re-sitting the existing heatsink+fan help? The fan seems ok, spins at 3000 RPM IIRC.

That's pretty much the first thing you should do when you're getting high CPU temperatures but your cooler otherwise seems to be working. Remove it, clean off all the old thermal compound, reapply fresh high-quality paste, and reinstall.

I'll try this tonight, thank you, Legion!

I am surprised though how good AMD has become in CPUs!

I wonder though, would switching to AMD 3000 (at some point) give me any advantages (vs. my circa 2012 i7 Sandy Bridge) if all I really want is to play modern games at 1440p/60fps? In other words, is my current CPU limiting me somehow?

Oh and another question. Would this new CPU require new kind of RAM? Mine is using DDR3 IIRC.

I am old and outdated.

I'm actually DOWNGRADING my system from an RTX 2060 to a mere RX 570 this week. Wasn't that long ago I would have never imagined doing this, but ray-tracing isn't in enough games to matter yet and the 2060 is overkill for anything else that I play or want to play in the immediate future.

When Cyberpunk 2077 comes out next year and we know the system requirements for that and get a consensus on whether the ray-tracing implementation in that makes a big difference I'll re-assess and upgrade again accordingly. But right now with bills from my recent move and buying a "new" car I'd rather have the bit of extra cash.

There is news going around that Intel is going to drop it's prices by 10-15% to be more competitive with AMD. They have already dropped the price on the i5-9600K by about 12% on some stores.

We are probably two cycles in GPU tech before Ray Tracing is a thing..

The problem is that high end 12 core ryzen 3 part for $500 that smokes the 8 core high end intel $1200 CPU...
I'm even tempted to drop $500 on a CPU and I haven't spent more than $170, ever. (well I did buy a dual pentium pro 150 for about $700 including the motherboard)

12% is a mere pittance.

TheGameguru wrote:

We are probably two cycles in GPU tech before Ray Tracing is a thing..

Is a cycle a year?

Danjo Olivaw wrote:
TheGameguru wrote:

We are probably two cycles in GPU tech before Ray Tracing is a thing..

Is a cycle a year?

Not these days. Kepler to Maxwell was about two years. Maxwell to Pascal was about two years. Pascal to Turing was two and a half years.

The slow cycles also are owed to AMD not putting up much of a fight. If AMD can fully get back in the GPU race, we might see things pick up pace again.

Hedinn wrote:

Oh and another question. Would this new CPU require new kind of RAM? Mine is using DDR3 IIRC.

I am old and outdated. :)

Yes, any modern CPU you get from either AMD or Intel is going to require DDR4. Sandy Bridge used DDR3.

So raytracing in four years? I'm curious what level of raytracing that entails. The current stuff looks to be a lot of computational overhead for minor lighting improvements, layered on top of traditional rasterization.

I can't imagine we're in a place where PC gamers are playing fully raytraced games based on high polycount models in only four years. So many rasterization tricks that allow triple A titles to run at all get thrown out the window, so the path to raytracing is one of those "two steps forward, one step back" kind of thing.

Maybe game that looks kinda like Dreams made out of distance fields, its a lot easier to raytrace distance fields than meshes. But those incur a lot of artist cost, and as far as I know there are no good animation techniques.

I'm thinking about doing a PC upgrade. My current system is pretty old at this point but it still performs pretty well. I have a 3570k with 16 gb of ram, a 256 and 500gb ssd, and a GTX 970/1060 3gb (bought the 1060 to replace my son's 7770 for $90 on craigslist). Anyway, been speccing out a Ryzen 3x00 (likely 3600 as the 200mhz of the x doesn't seem worthwhile) system and wanted to see about a few things.

One, will going to 32gb of ram be worthwhile? While I aspire to play lots of games I always end up back playing Overwatch which doesn't have the most demanding requirements. I do some multitasking but that's generally limited to having chrome open while playing on a second monitor.

Second, would it be worthwhile to wait until the X570 boards come out? Currently, I'm looking at an Asrock B450.

Is it worthwhile to "upgrade" my monitor to a 144 hz monitor? My current monitor is a very nice Samsung 4k 28". It's a beautiful monitor but only 60hz. Obviously, this would only be for gaming and would not be 4k (probably 1440P 144hz). And would I need to upgrade the video card if I did (note I don't need to game at anything above 1080P).

While an Asrock B450 has the correct socket for the next gen Ryzen, it will likely need a BIOS update to be compatible. This gets tricky if you don't already have a compatible CPU, cause you kind of need the system to boot up in order to update the BIOS. I've heard MSI motherboards (maybe just some?) are able to update the BIOS without a CPU, but I don't have any first hand experience. An X570 motherboard will be compatible with the new Ryzen CPUs out of the box, but I keep hearing X570 is going to be significantly more expensive than X470 was when it came out. Also, B450 won't have PCIe 4.0 like X570, but I'm not aware of any published benchmarks that would inform us how big a deal that is. I'm also not entirely sure there are any GPUs on the market that can take advantage of PCIe 4.0. I think soon enough there will be some announcements on a B550 (i'm guessing at that name) chipset to replace B450 and be compatible with next gen Ryzen out of the box.

Regarding how much RAM to get, I know there are people who have reasons to need more than 16gb right now, but we're talking about pretty niche scenarios. I would strongly recommend you just purchase 16gb, worst case scenario you can always buy another 16gb later.

1440p 144hz will also need a really strong GPU, like probably at least a $400 GPU. I'm guessing with your GTX970 you're playing games at 1080p on your 4k monitor?