[Discussion] Feminism and social justice, plus FAQ!

This thread is for discussing feminist issues--from the narrow meaning (a movement for social justice in terms of gender equality) to the broader meaning (a movement for social justice, period), and from the scope of issues in gaming and geek culture to kyriarchy in general.

Basic questions are allowed here for now, we will split out a Q&A thread should it become necessary.

Nevin73 wrote:

Wow, that is some shady sh*t, with a large helping of potentially evil heinousness. I have no idea why employers would want to track that information.

In the US as a general matter to attempt to get a better handle on and potentially controlling healthcare costs to the company. Specific to pregnancy some may be tempted to follow misguided actions thinking they can avoid EEOC issues (e.g. not promoting a female employee on the excuse she did not disclose her pregnancy in a timely fashion as the cover story with the underlying bias of "mommy track" thinking).

Outside the US I cannot comment.

Not sure if this is the right thread to put this in, but I am on season three of Big Mouth and am forced to face how much of my own painful adolescence was dictated by the toxic masculinity examined in that show. Wow is it painful to watch at times.

Paleocon wrote:

Not sure if this is the right thread to put this in, but I am on season three of Big Mouth and am forced to face how much of my own painful adolescence was dictated by the toxic masculinity examined in that show. Wow is it painful to watch at times.

(I'm assuming you mean season 2, because season 3 isn't out yet. I was all hopeful and everything!)

Chumpy_McChump wrote:
Paleocon wrote:

Not sure if this is the right thread to put this in, but I am on season three of Big Mouth and am forced to face how much of my own painful adolescence was dictated by the toxic masculinity examined in that show. Wow is it painful to watch at times.

(I'm assuming you mean season 2, because season 3 isn't out yet. I was all hopeful and everything!)

I thought "My big furry valentine" was season 3.

Paleocon wrote:
Chumpy_McChump wrote:
Paleocon wrote:

Not sure if this is the right thread to put this in, but I am on season three of Big Mouth and am forced to face how much of my own painful adolescence was dictated by the toxic masculinity examined in that show. Wow is it painful to watch at times.

(I'm assuming you mean season 2, because season 3 isn't out yet. I was all hopeful and everything!)

I thought "My big furry valentine" was season 3.

Technically it's an inter-season holiday special

Tanglebones wrote:
Paleocon wrote:
Chumpy_McChump wrote:
Paleocon wrote:

Not sure if this is the right thread to put this in, but I am on season three of Big Mouth and am forced to face how much of my own painful adolescence was dictated by the toxic masculinity examined in that show. Wow is it painful to watch at times.

(I'm assuming you mean season 2, because season 3 isn't out yet. I was all hopeful and everything!)

I thought "My big furry valentine" was season 3.

Technically it's an inter-season holiday special

ah. It was painful to watch.

Haven’t been posting much in here, because it’s just too damn exhausting. Things aren’t great. Waking up to news from Alabama .... like what the fudge?!?!......

...and Georgia, things haven't been good.

It's all due to Kavanaugh.

Thanks a bunch, Justice Kennedy.

Eleima wrote:

Haven’t been posting much in here, because it’s just too damn exhausting. Things aren’t great. Waking up to news from Alabama .... like what the fudge?!?!...... :(

Literally sick to my stomach even thinking about it.

Tyops wrote:

...and Georgia, things haven't been good.

And Michigan. There's a coordinated effort to get an abortion case in front of the Supreme Court both in the hopes of this Court overturning Roe and to make abortion a central issue in the Presidential election. It's highly motivating for the Republican base, who will turn out to fight abortion, but not for the Democratic base, who won't turn out to protect it.

IMAGE(https://scontent-ort2-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/60360006_10107516942713373_6525374513239031808_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-2.xx&oh=744fb0b69f81442c4cbd33f9f5e6bd78&oe=5D50CDF8)
For extra misogyny I guess?

And she's a felon, so she loses voting rights.

I could maybe see Roberts vote with the more liberal justices to preserve his "legacy", or whatever. That's a very big maybe.

ClockworkHouse wrote:
Tyops wrote:

...and Georgia, things haven't been good.

And Michigan.

And Ohio.
As you pointed out, it’s all part of a grander plan. It’s absolutely terrifying.

Chairman_Mao wrote:

I could maybe see Roberts vote with the more liberal justices to preserve his "legacy", or whatever. That's a very big maybe.

Might have been a second topic of conversation he had with Pence on McConnell on Air Force 2 today.

Eleima wrote:

Haven’t been posting much in here, because it’s just too damn exhausting. Things aren’t great. Waking up to news from Talibama .... like what the fudge?!?!...... :(

Hate living here... so backwards

*edit* fixed a typo.

ClockworkHouse wrote:

And Michigan. There's a coordinated effort to get an abortion case in front of the Supreme Court both in the hopes of this Court overturning Roe and to make abortion a central issue in the Presidential election. It's highly motivating for the Republican base, who will turn out to fight abortion, but not for the Democratic base, who won't turn out to protect it.

Rage Against the Machine sang, "The power pendulum swings by the umbilical cord," and that's what they were referring to.

This sprung up in my feed this evening:

'All The Rage' Isn't About Moms Having It All — It's About Moms Doing It All (NPR)

Women told Lockman they were grateful their husbands weren't as bad as other husbands. "That attitude really stops women from advocating for themselves as fully as they might," Lockman says. "There's always going to be someone whose husband is doing less."
In a recent New York Times op-ed, What 'Good' Dads Get Away With, Lockman cites a study that estimates that at the current rate, it will be another 75 years before men are taking on half of caregiving and household responsibilities.

This really spoke to me, because it was one of the sticking points in my failed marriage. My ex wanted a freakin' cookie for - every - single - thing he did, and it was exhausting. Picked up the kids that one time? Needed a pat on the head. Did the laundry? Wanted a cookie. Nothing I did ever made up for what he did. Being separated really isn't that bad, in the end, because I don't feel like I'm doing extra work anyhow. And the study the article alludes to both women and men feeling like a 33%/67% split is fair, but it sure as heck didn't feel fair to me.
Anyone else get the same vibe as me?

I can't wait to be separated/divorced! Won't have to contend with domesticities assigned to me by default, for some reason.

EVER.
AGAIN.

I’m one of the lucky ones.
I do laundry and pay bills. I work one day a week outside the house for a few hours.
My husband does the grocery shopping, cooking, kitchen cleaning, and deals with our son’s school.
I do take care of medical and dental stuff for boy and me.
Husband also has full time job.
He hates doing the cooking but does it without much complaint since it’s an issue for me.
He’s also the one who takes care of the occasional yard work (lawn is currently dandelions) and cleans the bathroom when it gets too disturbing for him. (I provide names for mold growths in the shower.)

Boy went to public school three years ago for high school. Before then I homeschooled him and was teaching college courses 2 nights a week outside the house. I quit work to focus on high school and then boy fired me and went off to school.

I have not once heard my husband say he thinks I should be doing more. And when I’ve said that, he says I deserve a break after all I had been doing.

We just celebrated our 25th wedding anniversary and have been a couple for 30 years now.

I hope that our son will pull his weight in a relationship. He’s getting good role modeling.
Husband and I have also had a NUMBER of conversations through the years as we’ve adjusted our responsibilities.

I’d say I’m definitely doing less than 50% and husband is doing more than 50.
But what’s most important for us is that we both give 100% to our relationship.
We also don’t take the other for granted.
I don’t see that in ANY of my friends’ marriages with one exception.

Hey. Hi. Hello.

So... I'm trying to be a good feminist. Getting better every day, or try to, at least.

And I try to split up the household stuff. I cook, I clean, I do 90% of the laundry, I do almost all the yardwork, I get the kids off to school every day, take days off/work from home for kid stuff, help with homework and reading, extracurriculars, etc etc etc. I get compliments from how involved I am pretty frequently.

And that weirds me out because what I'm doing is a drop in the bucket of what my wife does. It really is.

And it's not that I'm unaware of it, it's that we both have years of conditioning to overcome to truly have a 50/50 split. Even on days where it seems like I'm up to something constantly and she got a day to just read... it's not even, Why? Well, 1 day hardly changes the average but someone needs to wrangle kids and questions while I'm doing housework. And they both go to her first most of the time and if they don't, she'll check on them or somehow insinuate herself into things and that's not my default mode. So right there, she's handling more of the child-rearing because of how we're both built.

So it's hard, even when you know it's happening.

For instance:

"In the morning I'm rushing around, I'm getting lunches together, I'm helping the kids finish up their homework and making sure everyone's wearing socks. And my husband sits there drinking his coffee on his phone. He doesn't do it on purpose. He doesn't even realize what's going on around him."

My wife leaves for work before me but I end up feeding the girls and getting them to school. However, in her rush to get ready, she's packing lunches and doing hair. Now, I can do those things but do I? Nope. I've tried and managed to just ruin the routine which is an easy excuse to stop trying. Oh and that husband that doesn't realize he's not helping? He's a moron.

It's hard, even with the best intentions and staying aware and not falling into comfortable roles (he types from his office as his wife makes dinner upstairs) is extremely difficult.

It also DOES take effort on BOTH sides. I think it was really good when our son was young that I was at work twice a week in the evenings. Joe HAD to take care of our son and I COULDN’T pop in and correct anything. I’d have to have my hissy fits after I heard what they got up to after I got home. (Like the time boy locked them both in his bedroom and it was lucky joe had house keys so he could go out the window and get back in the house rather than them staying locked in until I got home.)

It is easier to just answer a question rather than saying to go check with the other parent.

One of the things we did early on was to write down all the household tasks and then divide them up with it written out on paper. For a time I cooked 3 nights and Joe did the other 3 nights with cleaning split too. Our current iteration has him doing all the cooking (yay!).

One suggestion would be to ask your wife what you can take over that would give her the biggest break. And then be sure to DO that and do it early. My anxiety rises when I know something needs to be done and I’m not seeing it done. Much easier to just do it myself rather than wait. (This is what is driving my beyond batty about having a teenager.)

Can you make lunch the night before so it just needs to be taken from the fridge?
When your wife takes time off just to read, would it be a break to go get a drink at a cafe and read there? As long as she doesn’t come home to insanity, that could be a good break.
And be sure to regularly thank her for what she does.

Joe did need to grump at me one day when I didn’t thank him for dinner....it’s great that he is able to tell me what he needs too. He regularly thanks me for laundry and I know he’s grateful for not having to deal with bills. But if I’m nice and unload the dishwasher one day, he thanks me for that but doesn’t expect it.

We both do a good job of showing our appreciation for the other and not taking the other for granted. We also call each other out when we feel overlooked....That can be tricky to figure out!

Talked with husband at dinner about article. He says he thinks we are currently at 50-50 on household stuff. I think he’s doing a lot more than me. What I think really matters is that we can talk about anything and I feel heard, validated, and appreciated. I don’t have any female friends who have marriages like that and that really sucks.

MathGoddess wrote:

Talked with husband at dinner about article. He says he thinks we are currently at 50-50 on household stuff. I think he’s doing a lot more than me. What I think really matters is that we can talk about anything and I feel heard, validated, and appreciated. I don’t have any female friends who have marriages like that and that really sucks.

I don't usually chime in here but I read everything trying to learn more and be a better human. So first, let me say thank you for the opportunity to learn. This post really struck me because it's very similar to how we do things in our house. We sit down and split the chores so that neither of us feels like we're being taken advantage of. If there's something someone really doesn't like to do, such as cleaning hair out of the shower drain, then the other one usually does that. I always assumed this was something everyone did but then I always hear stories about how she told someone about what I do to help out at home and the person is just amazed that I help out with things around the house. It boggles my mind every time. I see it as another thing we're doing as a culture because it's the way we did it before that needs to really change but it seems like the only thing we're good at changing is the climate.

John Scalzi has a recent Blog post. about this.

His comment about the discrepancy in what each considers “clean” is also a point of contention for some of my friends. I have a much higher tolerance for disorder than spouse.

MathGoddess wrote:

John Scalzi has a recent Blog post. about this.

His comment about the discrepancy in what each considers “clean” is also a point of contention for some of my friends. I have a much higher tolerance for disorder than spouse.

Yeah, that’s a classic sticking point. I, for instance, could not stand dirty socks dumped in a corner of the living room. It wasn’t “dirty” per se, but it was messy. So I always ended up picking those up off the floor.
I’m teaching my boys otherwise now.

Eleima wrote:

And the study the article alludes to both women and men feeling like a 33%/67% split is fair, but it sure as heck didn't feel fair to me.
Anyone else get the same vibe as me?

It's how my fiancee and I ended up splitting things. Unlike most of these articles, though, it came about after specific discussion on what chores we didn't mind, and which chores we hated, and how best to reconcile. We ended up deciding that I would play 60% of the living expense, and she'd pay 40%, but do more of the random housework. In the end, she gets a few hundred dollars a month to spend on her hobbies, and she's in charge of the chores I couldn't do to her standard anyway.

I just wish I had someone to mow the lawn and take care of car maintenance and have enough money so that no one ever has to cook unless they want to, but that's not a good reason to marry someone. At least I guess it's not.

So I need advice. I am a believer in a woman's absolute right to body autonomy(really, everyone's right but only one gender has that already). That said, I regularly see two pregnant women smoking at work and I find this morally reprehensible. Am I being a hypocrite if I complain to HR? This is a tough one.

Why is that an HR issue? Similarly, what would you expect HR to do about it?