Vampire - The Masquerade

i've not read much about the new edition's lore (for hopefully obvious reasons, given some of the toxic stuff on those books) but if I recall correctly from the few scraps i've seen, Thin Bloods are a lot more common now after whateverapocalypse hit post-Bloodlines 1/earlier versions of the ttrpg, and a lot more organised, having essentially taken control of LA after the other clans pulled out, so they have a bit more power and influence behind them than they used to across the states.

Interesting! Still, the issue I discussed will still be present because the collective power of Thinbloods won't mean much when you're 1-1 against some badass supernatural entity and you win despite being vastly overpowered. And it keeps happening.

Q1 2020

Meh I bet you get power by eating older vamps.

Possibly, atomcvideohead; however, diablerie is HIGHLY reviled and everyone, except the Sabbat, would be immensely displeased by it. Can't see that being the reason why your Thinblood will be able to do what they do.

The pre-order packs don't seem too bad for a game these days. I may even get the special edition to get the remember these items from bloodlines.

The most expensive edition is pretty much just the game + season pass price. I'm pretty sure I'll get it as soon as some secondary store has a discount on it.

BoogtehWoog wrote:

Possibly, atomcvideohead; however, diablerie is HIGHLY reviled and everyone, except the Sabbat, would be immensely displeased by it. Can't see that being the reason why your Thinblood will be able to do what they do.

Yup.

For reference, the punishment for that within both the Camarilla and the Anarch Free Cities/States is generally a Blood Hunt to Final Death. (If you played the original Bloodlines, that's what sends Nines into hiding in werewolf territory, and it's the part of the game where you're running from your original haven apartment to the cab before you start heading to final bosses and EVERYONE is pissed at you.)

That said, Boogteh, that's also the ONLY WAY to make you go from being someone of like the 12th generation (# made up, but it is a higher number that's led to more diluted power, and thus Thinbloods), to say someone of the 10th where you start exhibiting distinct and permanent clan powers and curses and affiliations and such. Sooooooooo, there's kind of a bind here. Diablerie is really the ONLY option to do that, unless they add something else in. There is ONE loophole though, you CAN Diablerie someone who is the target of a Blood Hunt.

Having read thru 5th edition, having had it pre-ordered before the writers sh*t themselves with stupidly insensitive writing, I haven't found anything else yet that would do that... though the rules for thinbloods are also pretty weird compared to previous games.

Given what we know, so far, of the first couple of hours/the intro... I could see it going something like THIS, plus side quests, other political maneuvering, etc... etc...
-Mass Embrace of a lot of folks, including you, the protagonist.
-All dragged to court while the local vampires try to sort things out and decide what to do.
-Trial is fire bombed, all the childer escape.
-Presumable either the sires of the mass embrace are identified, or the folks who just tried to torch a room full of vampires are identified... they come from a variety of clans, but likely a single political affiliation.
-You choose your target, hello first boss battle that involves learning what some of your powers will be by fighting against them, take them down, and drink away, and boom, you are now a lower generation vamp with a brand new skill set just waiting to take a test spin, and for having lowered your generation count, here's a few blood points to spend on those fancy new powers that won't get you anywhere near their level up selves, but will let you start playing a bit.

...holy sh*t, that's going to be the first few hours. That's... someone remember this post next year, because I'm pretty sure I'm going to be 100% spot on (question remains whether the mass siring is done to GET the vamps together to torch them or if someone sees a golden opportunity and takes it).

Alternate could simply be, you start by poking at the clans, they give you some jobs, every group has a rat of some kind, gotta keep that secret though, don't want to expose Tremere disloyalty or backstabbing sewer rats who aren't playing by the rules of the clan, take them out, do it right and you can join up by drinking on them to be a proper clan member.... but... I like my first idea way more.

I guess I might get around to playing the original then. What is the general consensus around mods to fix stuff? There appear to be a few fan mods, though wesp seems to be the most popular? I want something that provides mostly fixes tbh, and not too much additional fan content.

The gog version has the fan mod with basic fixes built in. If you want extra you download the plus patch which is the the basic patch plus extra. If you don't have the gog version you can download the basic patch and the other patch on modDB. For a new person I would just do the basic patch and then do the plus patch on the next play through unless you like the sound of the extra stuff then do the plus patch, it really doesn't matter. Just don't play the basic game since it is buggy mess.

there's generally not a huge amount of "fan content" for the game since it's pretty difficult to mod new stuff into it I think? (unless there's been big developments since the last time i looked at it)

Mostly anything that's been added was cut content and stuff that was already buried in the code.

Demosthenes wrote:

...holy sh*t, that's going to be the first few hours. That's... someone remember this post next year, because I'm pretty sure I'm going to be 100% spot on (question remains whether the mass siring is done to GET the vamps together to torch them or if someone sees a golden opportunity and takes it).

It is a good thought, Demos! We'll have to see how it all shakes out. The first game dropped hints here and there that your character was unusually powerful. It was never outright explained, which left people to speculate, but it at least provided a list of reasons why a newly sired vampire was able to do what they did. Yours is the only way I can think of it going if we are truly Thinbloods. I hope it is addressed because to have a Thinblood just straight up murdering a bunch of early generation vampires and other fantastically powerful supernatural creatures would be jarring and mess with the atmosphere.

Some people speculated that the "Withering" was the reason why the PC in Bloodlines did what they did, but I don't personally buy it. It was something that was never really alluded to at all in the game itself. I feel the other theories, particularly that your PC was of a much lower generation than your usual vampire of that era, to be much more likely.

kergguz wrote:

I guess I might get around to playing the original then. What is the general consensus around mods to fix stuff? There appear to be a few fan mods, though wesp seems to be the most popular? I want something that provides mostly fixes tbh, and not too much additional fan content.

If you should already own the original on Steam and not GOG, I personally recommend the "Unofficial Patch."

https://steamcommunity.com/app/2600/...

Now that I'm thinking more about it, that's going to be pretty wild, Demo. It's really the only way forward. Will be cool to see how it pans out.

AND! From what they said, you have TWO character creation moments in the game. In the beginning as you determine your Thinblood life and then again when you choose your Clan....so that's gotta mean you have to diablerize someone. Wild, man.

pyxistyx wrote:

there's generally not a huge amount of "fan content" for the game since it's pretty difficult to mod new stuff into it I think? (unless there's been big developments since the last time i looked at it)

Mostly anything that's been added was cut content and stuff that was already buried in the code.

Some modders have done a bit of work adding the unrepresented clans. They're pretty bad though. There is a mod to be one of the Fiends, and the model of flesh beast you summon is a xenomorph.

I wouldn't be surprised if it works like the last game. Where some outside force is boosting your power. There was a bunch of hints about that in the last game. I'm really hoping for this one. If it turns out to be a mobile game or some mmo. Well I'll be sad.

I know sucker sucking is viewed as in poor taste. But mechanically, I could see it. Level up to a degree, then lock the next "tier" of levels behind a generation. To get to that generation you have to kill a boss who's connected the conspiracy that started this all and turned you into a vampire, a generation above you or so. There's little or no ramifications since the inciting incident blowing up the princes court sort of throws the law enforcement part of the society out the window. Or maybe there is some sort of story ramification, and it ends up like a little sister thing from bio shock.

But what do I know, I always played a Tzimisce.

Demosthenes laid out a good case for why it would be totally just and legal within the Camarilla for your PC to use diablerie. People subject to a Blood Hunt can be diablerized without incurring retribution.

BoogtehWoog wrote:

Demosthenes laid out a good case for why it would be totally just and legal within the Camarilla for your PC to use diablerie. People subject to a Blood Hunt can be diablerized without incurring retribution.

Meh, the Camarilla is a nutless organization anyway that parades itself around as if it were something novel and new because no one escapes the Spanish Inquisition. According to canon, being rotten to the core, a fervent denial of antediluvians (even when you’ve got 4th gen vamps actively running around that legit remember those nights), Ravnos being laid to waste by three Bhoddivistas and a couple of Neutrino bombs, and the defection of Xavier... its already hit its iceberg and there aren’t enough life boats to go around.

lol, BlackSheep is our resident GWJ Anarch.

Would your last name by chance be Rodriguez and your first name be a number in alphabet form?

BlackSheep wrote:
BoogtehWoog wrote:

Demosthenes laid out a good case for why it would be totally just and legal within the Camarilla for your PC to use diablerie. People subject to a Blood Hunt can be diablerized without incurring retribution.

Meh, the Camarilla is a nutless organization anyway that parades itself around as if it were something novel and new because no one escapes the Spanish Inquisition. According to canon, being rotten to the core, a fervent denial of antediluvians (even when you’ve got 4th gen vamps actively running around that legit remember those nights), Ravnos being laid to waste by three Bhoddivistas and a couple of Neutrino bombs, and the defection of Xavier... its already hit its iceberg and there aren’t enough life boats to go around.

To be fair, the Anarchs don't view Diablerie any better and treat it just as harshly, the only ones in favor of it without punishment (assuming you Diablerie who they WANT you to) are the Sabbat.

Demosthenes wrote:
BlackSheep wrote:
BoogtehWoog wrote:

Demosthenes laid out a good case for why it would be totally just and legal within the Camarilla for your PC to use diablerie. People subject to a Blood Hunt can be diablerized without incurring retribution.

Meh, the Camarilla is a nutless organization anyway that parades itself around as if it were something novel and new because no one escapes the Spanish Inquisition. According to canon, being rotten to the core, a fervent denial of antediluvians (even when you’ve got 4th gen vamps actively running around that legit remember those nights), Ravnos being laid to waste by three Bhoddivistas and a couple of Neutrino bombs, and the defection of Xavier... its already hit its iceberg and there aren’t enough life boats to go around.

To be fair, the Anarchs don't view Diablerie any better and treat it just as harshly, the only ones in favor of it without punishment (assuming you Diablerie who they WANT you to) are the Sabbat.

Well, it makes sense that diablerie is frowned upon by everyone, excepting the Assamites really. I mean the Sabbat largely says one thing and then does the other, aside from diablerizing *ahem* two of their antediluvians, but they can justify that as at least some self-preservation mechanic. Everyone frowns on diablerie only because of fear of it happening to them, not out of some altruistic sense of community.

Is there a good guide to how to play this game with the best modded graphics?

jrralls wrote:

Is there a good guide to how to play this game with the best modded graphics?

Fan patch is the best thing to get, I think it actually helps build in like higher screen resolutions, I play it ultrawide (and have been streaming it that way)... but there's not a lot in the realm of like up-rezzing beyond that. And like... looking at the characters and such, it's not hard to see why that hasn't been much of a priority, even now... they're extremely stylistic and it's hard to uprez that without messing up the style all together.

That said, so far, we have one clan revealed for Bloodlines 2...

Brujah! Yeah, pretty much a guarantee in any game that's going to involve some Cammy and some not-so-Cammy stories... though it's fascinating as the Brujah have fully removed themselves from the Camarilla (along with the Gangrel) and they've responded by officially making the Anarachs, Unbound, whatever no longer part of the Camarilla all together. No more protection, no more clean-up, nothing.

What IS interesting though is a very... different interpretation of Disciplines for the Brujah. One, they're limiting the clans to two disciplines rather than their traditional 3. Brujah are losing Presence (I'd guess that'll be more of a Toreador power), but they're changing up how Potence and Celerity works... well, Potence, yes, Celerity, kind of.

So, Potence gets two active abilities as you level it, the first being Fist of Caine, which is basically a very strong hit that can both pummel the living (or unliving) hell out of an opponent, sending them flying back... or can start breaking down walls. The second (3 dots and up) is basically a HULKSMASH shockwave on the ground that can knock enemies down and away, and at higher levels, leaves behind basically a floor AOE effect.

Celerity is a little less interesting, the higher level power is basically a high level version of Bloodlines 1 Celerity, you move fast, everyone else is slow, etc... But the first power is a kind of teleporty dash that knocks down opponents in your way, etc...

Both however, regardless of level ARE Masquerade violations... something that made Brujah a bit easier to play in 1, only Celerity 2+ was a breach, Potence, Presence, and Celerity 1 were all just fine.

Later today (Wednesday) we'll get the second clan reveal along with another set of powers. If Tremere IS one of the clans, and the preview image that appears to be a ritual circle lesson in a Chantry certainly suggests they will be, it'll be interesting to see how that plays out in this new system of fewer powers but more impact to them.

Meanwhile, I've been thinking about using up some of my severance time and Loki's health issues time (new dog, Heartworms, etc... trying to get him to 100% before heading back out into the working world) to try making a video series of sort of Lore and Politics of the WoD for Kindred before Bloodlines 2 comes out (similarly, doing the same thing for Cyberpunk before that comes out, and maybe a more personal one like some WoW or Dragon Age lore series too because... why not). Reminds me, I gotta hit the Creative thread and ask for recommendations on video editting/creation software.

Tremere, too. Also I know comparatively jack sh*t about this franchise compared with Demos and Boogteh, so I'll just go back to my corner.

So far PC Gamer has been spot on. They predicted Brujah, Tremere, Malkavian, Ventrue, and I believe Nosferatu.

Personally I would have loved to see Toreador but I guess that will be DLC at some point.

Budo wrote:

So far PC Gamer has been spot on. They predicted Brujah, Tremere, Malkavian, Ventrue, and I believe Nosferatu.

Personally I would have loved to see Toreador but I guess that will be DLC at some point.

As long as there is malkavians, I can work with that. Though having the Gangrel absent is a bit sad

Gangrel, I suspect, are going to be part of the DLC clans, either right BEFORE the Wolf DLC stuff or with it. They're also, though, not big city kindred, except where they were like Sheriffs, enforcers, bodyguards, etc... and with them having wholesale left the Camarilla, well, yeah, probably not likely to see many of them inside Seattle's limits.

Honestly, with the images left, I don't see Malks making the first round either, which makes me sad because I LOVE the Malkavians... but I also see them as a good DLC clan to add after release... if you're too fishmalk, you're spoilery as heck.

With Tremere confirmed (wizardy character indeed) we have three "preview" images left.

Dude standing in a high rise office - Ventrue for sure.

Fireplace with some comfy chairs, some paintings, a bottle of something and a book - MAYBE Malkavian with like a therapist's office... but nothing about it really pushes me that way either, but I'd be more inclined to guess Toreador.

Hallway that looks very utility-ish - I'd guess this would be the Nosferatu, but some have suggested it looks institutional too and is maybe a nod to the Malkavs too, I dunno, seems unlikely to me compared to the Nosferatu.

That said, I do see some issues with Nosferatu as well.
1. We know there's more character customization in terms of visuals upon character creation. Nosferatu would, in theory, require a whole second round on that mid game, which seems odd... especially as you're going to FORCE some level of change (reading through the V5 books, I didn't realize just how... weird they could get. There's a fight between two Nos and one is described as basically scaled like a lizard.
2. It's hard to sell the idea of like say Malkavian requiring a lot of special resources and thus couldn't be in the base game... with Nosferatu in the base game... seeing as how they need all the same resources... plus more.... and more... and more (special dialogue for both, Nosferatu need special traversal options, which is more level designs for them, need more character creation work than Malkavians... etc... etc...).

But, I also can't see them passing up on Nosferatu as the Stealthy character archetype so... I'd have to guess they're in.

Demosthenes wrote:

Gangrel, I suspect, are going to be part of the DLC clans, either right BEFORE the Wolf DLC stuff or with it. They're also, though, not big city kindred, except where they were like Sheriffs, enforcers, bodyguards, etc... and with them having wholesale left the Camarilla, well, yeah, probably not likely to see many of them inside Seattle's limits.

Honestly, with the images left, I don't see Malks making the first round either, which makes me sad because I LOVE the Malkavians... but I also see them as a good DLC clan to add after release... if you're too fishmalk, you're spoilery as heck.

With Tremere confirmed (wizardy character indeed) we have three "preview" images left.

Dude standing in a high rise office - Ventrue for sure.

Fireplace with some comfy chairs, some paintings, a bottle of something and a book - MAYBE Malkavian with like a therapist's office... but nothing about it really pushes me that way either, but I'd be more inclined to guess Toreador.

Hallway that looks very utility-ish - I'd guess this would be the Nosferatu, but some have suggested it looks institutional too and is maybe a nod to the Malkavs too, I dunno, seems unlikely to me compared to the Nosferatu.

That said, I do see some issues with Nosferatu as well.
1. We know there's more character customization in terms of visuals upon character creation. Nosferatu would, in theory, require a whole second round on that mid game, which seems odd... especially as you're going to FORCE some level of change (reading through the V5 books, I didn't realize just how... weird they could get. There's a fight between two Nos and one is described as basically scaled like a lizard.
2. It's hard to sell the idea of like say Malkavian requiring a lot of special resources and thus couldn't be in the base game... with Nosferatu in the base game... seeing as how they need all the same resources... plus more.... and more... and more (special dialogue for both, Nosferatu need special traversal options, which is more level designs for them, need more character creation work than Malkavians... etc... etc...).

But, I also can't see them passing up on Nosferatu as the Stealthy character archetype so... I'd have to guess they're in.

Seattle is the perfect city for it since they already have a fully built city beneath their own current city. As for Gangrel, it’s the upper northwest setting - again, a great place that many would take interest in. There are also the ‘city gangrel’ - as a pure means of fighting through, there’s always been a place for it. I’d love to see the lasombra as well. I’d love a dual game with an ability to play from all three sides, anarch, Sabbat and Camarilla.