2018/19 Soccer Thread

Good angle, GB, one I hadn't seen. The ball definitely hits his arm there, but the only way for him to have avoided that would have been to put his arms in a much more problematic position, like up in the air or straight out to the sides. According to the rules, and according to the fact that footballers have arms and have to be able to put them somewhere, I think this was a good no-call.

jowner wrote:

I dunno how much I like VAR in soccer tbh

Like honestly was the City winning goal actually egregious offside? Aguero had to check back from his marginal offside position to come and play the ball.

I was a huge VAR proponent before today, but now I'm a fanatic.

As seriously as people take sports these days (and not to mention that they wager millions or billions on the outcomes), I think it's important to apply the rules as accurately as possible. Neither review took THAT long.

Yeah, while I'm no fan of the delays, from an aesthetic perspective I can't get angry about a game being decided on a correct call because a player was just offside, as opposed to seeing a team lose a game because of a horrifically terrible offside decision.

The VAR decision for Mane’s first goal in the Liverpool v Porto game took over 2 minutes. To be fair everyone thought it was offside, nobody celebrated the goal.

People will get used to VAR and if it stops travesties like that Azpilicueta’s goal against Cardiff, it can only be a good thing. And if it’s used to stamp out diving.

I’ve wondered why they don’t look at the tape and hand out cards retroactively for stuff (was thinking diving when I started typing this, but heck why not other stuff?). Sure, it wouldn’t affect the match in which the offense occurs, but I’d imagine it would be sufficient disincentive to have a positive effect generally without disrupting the flow of the game.

jowner wrote:

I dunno how much I like VAR in soccer tbh

Like honestly was the City winning goal actually egregious offside? Aguero had to check back from his marginal offside position to come and play the ball.

You can't be serious... Offside is offside, by a millimetre or a kilometre.

I do agree that it takes some time. The main referee shouldn't ever have to go to a screen to review something. We have 3 video referees. It's more than enough to reach a consensus.

slazev wrote:
jowner wrote:

I dunno how much I like VAR in soccer tbh

Like honestly was the City winning goal actually egregious offside? Aguero had to check back from his marginal offside position to come and play the ball.

You can't be serious... Offside is offside, by a millimetre or a kilometre.

I do agree that it takes some time. The main referee shouldn't ever have to go to a screen to review something. We have 3 video referees. It's more than enough to reach a consensus.

I agree with this. In American college football, the replay officials make the call. In fact, in many cases the call is made by a team of officials that are in a centralized location.

I do appreciate the idea of letting the center ref make the decision, but it's much slower to do it that way.

Fedaykin98 wrote:

Good angle, GB, one I hadn't seen. The ball definitely hits his arm there, but the only way for him to have avoided that would have been to put his arms in a much more problematic position, like up in the air or straight out to the sides. According to the rules, and according to the fact that footballers have arms and have to be able to put them somewhere, I think this was a good no-call.

Caveat: I like Tottenham, but I like City more and was rooting for them to win.

When I was watching the game live, I thought the inside the net angle showed that Llorente's arm was away from his body, but as you mention and based on this video, that wasn't the case. Llorente is pulling his arm toward his body, it's unintentionally hit by the ball, and when the ball hits his elbow, his elbow is flush against his torso. A handball call would have been super harsh based on that video.

I did think there was yet another view from inside the net, from a camera a bit more to the right, where you could see that Llorente's hand is still away from his body enough and creating an angle to direct the ball toward the goal, but I might be imagining this because I wanted it to be so.

Still, what an amazing match to watch. I was EXHAUSTED at the end, and I'm not super invested in either team, more a fan of the game in general. I can only imagine how emotional it must have been for devoted Tottenham and City fans. I can't think of a crazier, more dramatic match.

Found it!

For whatever reason, it's not easy to find this view of the goal (watch the first 3 seconds), but that's the one I saw during the game that made me think it was a handball and would be overturned. This one looks more damning to me, because his hand appears to be pointing forward creating an angle with his arm that appears to direct the ball to his right and down, off his hip, and into the goal. If that were the only angle to view the goal from, I wonder if the decision may have been overturned.

I'm still not sure it's conclusive enough, but the part of the process I do think should be improved is evaluating the decision with enough camera angles to make a good decision. I would have liked the ref to have seen the angle in this video (as well as the others) before making a call. They showed the ref getting one camera angle, with the video scrubbing over the same section, and then walking away with a gesture of "I got nothing". Given the angle he had, he made the right call for sure.

I think Moreno's comments on ESPN on the topic are right on the mark.

This sort of thing happens a lot with the NFL, where you'll see three camera angles that aren't helpful, then one that clearly shows the angle you need to correctly evaluate the call. The downside of this is that NFL video review can take forever, which destroys the flow of American football even more than it already is.

Arsenal and Chelsea through in the UEFA Cup. Another impressive performance for England in continental competitions.

And are we sure that the ref only saw that angle? I don't remember the TV transmission showing us everything that the ref was watching.

(I still think it's the right call.)

Now the first Frankfurt goal was clearly offside, but without VAR, validated. Still, Benfica's attitude didn't deserve better.

slazev wrote:

And are we sure that the ref only saw that angle? I don't remember the TV transmission showing us everything that the ref was watching.

They didn't show the ref the entire time, no, but he was at the monitor for just a few seconds before they picked him up on television. I'd be curious to hear something official on what angles he saw and why he ruled the way he did.

The shrug at the end of his watching the replay seems most telling. It's totally an "I have no idea and don't see anything" reaction. I don't think he does that if he saw the angles from inside the net. And I can't imagine he'd be looking at the useless angle if he had seen the shots from inside the net. The inside the net angles provide information to make a decision with more certainty, and based on the timing I don't think there was enough time to have looked at those angles. That was ESPN's take on it as well. I suppose they could be wrong, though.

What's more intriguing about this is that they just changed the rule for next season that accidental goals resulting from handballs will be disallowed. The ESPN commentators seem to be arguing that the goal should have been disallowed even if it were accidental because of that rule, but they appear to have it wrong in that the rule isn't yet in place.

EDIT: I'll stop after this. I'm way too into this. But this is the best discussion I've seen on the goal and the upcoming rule change that doesn't go into effect until June.

So who've we got?

I actually have Ajax over Tottenham, and Barca just a shade over Liverpool (and only because of Messi).

Snapshot of the fantasy league, as we head into the final weeks.
IMAGE(https://i.imgur.com/EkiGL4s.png)

My hopes of mounting a title defense are definitely over, and even-more-sadly, it looks like I won't manage to beat Psych this season. Third through seventh are tightly packed though, and there's still a chance that LouZiffer's team of bad guys will make it into the top half of the table.

(Mid-season snapshot, for the curious).

Prederick wrote:

So who've we got?

I actually have Ajax over Tottenham, and Barca just a shade over Liverpool (and only because of Messi).

This discussion is premature. We need five more posts on the Llorente goal from Blitz first.

Fedaykin98 wrote:
Prederick wrote:

So who've we got?

I actually have Ajax over Tottenham, and Barca just a shade over Liverpool (and only because of Messi).

This discussion is premature. We need five more posts on the Llorente goal from Blitz first.

I’m done posting about it! Really.

I’ve started working on a book about it though. I’m up to Chapter 7.

#whatareocdsymptoms

Dimmerswitch wrote:

Snapshot of the fantasy league, as we head into the final weeks.
IMAGE(https://i.imgur.com/EkiGL4s.png)

Geez I have zero idea how I’m as high up as I am. I have’t looked at that in aages.

juv3nal wrote:

Geez I have zero idea how I’m as high up as I am. I have’t looked at that in aages.

That's the key, actually. I didn't touch mine last year after the second week and I finished 7th. This year I was paying attention to it for the first third of the season. I was in something like 13th place. I drifted away from it after that, haven't done anything with it, and boom, I'm up to 8th!

Godzilla Blitz wrote:
Fedaykin98 wrote:
Prederick wrote:

So who've we got?

I actually have Ajax over Tottenham, and Barca just a shade over Liverpool (and only because of Messi).

This discussion is premature. We need five more posts on the Llorente goal from Blitz first.

I’m done posting about it! Really.

I’ve started working on a book about it though. I’m up to Chapter 7.

#whatareocdsymptoms

In that case, I predict Barca over Liverpool. Hoping Spurs over Ajax, obviously, but concerned about their depleted bench. Desperately need some additions this summer!

I'll go with ... Liverpool and Ajax.

Godzilla Blitz wrote:

I'll go with ... Liverpool and Ajax.

Good man.

The Liverpool v Barca game will depend on the result at the Camp Nou I think. Liverpool will win at Anfield, it’s probably going to be about how many goals they can score in Barcelona. If they can get at least 2 then I think they’ll have enough for the away goals.

Without Kane and Son I think Spurs will struggle against Ajax and lose it in that first game.

I hate football - we had 36 shots, of which only 10 were on target, 77% possession and played against 10 men for 75 mins, at home and lost 2-1 to Wigan. Premier League sucks anyway.

Ayoze's been so good this year and the diving header to complete his hat-trick today was fun to see. Now that he's had a decent coach for a few years he's finally living up to the hype/promise from his early years at Newcastle.

Squeaky bum time and a refresher of what ifs.

In the event that a Premier League club win the UEFA Champions League and another win the UEFA Europa League and neither of these clubs finish in the top four of the Premier League, the club lying fourth in the table will drop into the UEFA Europa League group stage.

https://www.premierleague.com/european-qualification-explained

I'd rate Arsenal and Spurs having the best chance of qualifying for the CL next year by being in the top 4. Both also have the back door entry by CL and Europa.

United still play Chelsea and City. Chelsea still has the back door of the Europa League also.

City won the league Cup and if they win the FA Cup that means 6+7 in the league will also get Europe. Important as Watford Wolves Leicester and Everton all have a tad more to play for.

Absolute nightmare scenario still exists for Arsenal/United of finishing 4th but Spurs and Chelsea winning European cups.

Confused yet?

Well oh boy.

Made that post before Everton v United because you never know and chasing 7th Everton are up 4-0 vs United.

Ole Gunnar luck is running out. Pochettino back in the cards? Haha

I love Everton beating ManU from every perspective except for the "ManU wants Poch" one.

And Palace is beating Arsenal at the moment!

jowner wrote:

Ole Gunnar luck is running out. Pochettino back in the cards? Haha

I was wondering the same thing. I mean, if they were to get steamrolled by City on Wednesday at home and lose out the rest of the season, would it be impossible that he signs a long term contract in March, only to get himself fired in May? United looked lost today.

Liverpool held their nerve today after a very spirited performance by Cardiff. One good goal from a corner, and a penalty that was certainly on the soft side, but if you as a defender have your arm wrapped around an opponent for an extended period of time, you asking the ref to make a call. Morrison only has himself to blame there. Nervy, but last season, or the Gerrard slip season Liverpool would have outright panicked and lost the game.

City really should beat united on Wednesday - United are a bit of a shower at the moment, but on the other hand if they don't win they can kiss their champions league chances goodbye. Tough call. I do think the banana skin match for City is the away game against Burnley. I could really see that being a draw. That said if Brighton need to win on the final day to stay up......

It's a cracking end to the season isn't it?

Godzilla Blitz wrote:
jowner wrote:

Ole Gunnar luck is running out. Pochettino back in the cards? Haha

I was wondering the same thing. I mean, if they were to get steamrolled by City on Wednesday at home and lose out the rest of the season, would it be impossible that he signs a long term contract in March, only to get himself fired in May? United looked lost today.

I didn't get the rush to not see the season out. I felt like United had all the leverage in that situation.

Arsenal drop 2/3 games vs teams chasing 7th and were pretty average in the Watford game and were up 1 man for 75+ minutes.

Depth + the season is catching up to them. Those 17-25 registered players are starting to see more minutes and yikes.

Games are coming quick now with some mid week games. By the end of next Sunday United will play City and Chelsea.

Gonna be a ridiculous end to the season this year.