[Discussion] Health Policies and ACA Reform/Repeal

The existing health thread is for discussion on how changes to current policy will/have personally affected you or those you know. This thread is for more general discussion of the subject.

The Various Plans for Medicare for All

This is a PM I sent a coworker in response to a conversation we had last week. He was talking about how he would never trust the "gubmint" to fix health care.

I was thinking about a comment you made last week about how our government can't manage to do simple things right and saw an article this morning that spoke to it.  Turns out that Trump just nominated former senator Rick Scott to lead his health care alternative plans for Obamacare.

 

If you are unfamiliar with him, the company he ran was fined for the largest medicare fraud case in American history.

 

This isn't about government not being able to do things right.  It's about a Republican party that is busy flushing cement down the toilets.

 

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019...

This isn't about government not being able to do things right. It's about a Republican party that is busy flushing cement down the toilets.

That has been their MO for years. Take control, do it poorly then say how that shows the government does things poorly.

The thing that bothers me is people buy it. And they don't buy it once, they buy it again and again and again.

They don't trust the gubmint, but they sure do trust greedy insurance companies. Makes a lot of sense.

I remember back during Katrina I was talking to someone who was using the Republican "government can't do anything right" line, and I told him that anyone who says the government can't work well shouldn't be put in charge of running it. If you don't think government is a good thing, I don't trust you to be in government.

Lately I have been thinking about the Republican "conservative" approach to government vs the liberal approach. I have been thinking about the analogy of people in a cabin in winter trying to stay warm. The democrats are trying to convince people to light a fire in a wood stove, keep the door closed, and make sure nothing flamible is too close to it. The Republicans are busy trying to set the house on fire. Every time a democrat puts out a blaze, the Republicans scream about how the democrats want us all to freeze to death and look how much colder it is now; fire suppression is worse than useless because now a cold draft is coming in through the hole burned in the wall. No amount of explaining that setting the house on fire might temporarily seem to produce desirable results but is guaranteed to end in disaster convinces their followers, and unwillingness to compromise and set at least some of the house on fire is labeled as unreasonable and dogmatic. After all you don't know that setting the house on fire with us all inside will be deadly; we are exceptional.

I'm really hoping the ACA thing is tied up in courts for years. Long enough for Democrats to possibly take the executive and legislative branches in 2020.

It's kinda amazing that nearly ten years on and the Republicans have never actually gotten around to proposing their alternative to Obamacare.

Sometimes the level of narcissism exhibited still manages to surprise me...

WASHINGTON (AP) — Amid blowback from Capitol Hill, President Donald Trump switched gears again Wednesday, suggesting he never wanted Congress to vote to replace the Affordable Care Act until after the 2020 election.

Trump’s new tweets shifted his rationale for the “Obamacare” fight. First he said it was his choice to push off the health care votes. Then he said he never expected there to be any votes at all until after 2020.

Trump claimed Wednesday he had never intended to reopen old wounds. But in keeping the issue at the forefront, the president put fresh attention on the GOP’s long-running and thus far unsuccessful effort to end ACA.

“I was never planning a vote prior to the 2020 Election on the wonderful HealthCare package that some very talented people are now developing for me & the Republican Party,” Trump tweeted, adding, “I never asked Mitch McConnell for a vote before the Election.”

I'm so glad he has the interest of all Americans in his mind...

OG_slinger wrote:

It's kinda amazing that nearly ten years on and the Republicans have never actually gotten around to proposing their alternative to Obamacare.

They were pretty clear about this as far back as a Republican primary debate in 2011:

When debate moderator Wolf Blitzer brought up a hypothetical young, uninsured American in a coma, he asked, “Are you saying society should just let him die?” and the tea party crowd cheered, some shouting, “Yes!”

source: https://blog.chron.com/rickperry/201...

He should have said hypothetical middle aged white worker who lost his job at the factory - suddenly they would see themselves.

It is really easy to let "the other" die but people tend to want to save themselves.

It is like Libertarians, who isolate themselves and then complain that they aren't represented, are under represented or people that represent them don't get elected or aren't very successful at anything but being roadblocks (can't build consensus) once elected.

The Caregiver Gap

Just a stupid title...

"Most Americans want lower health care costs, not 'Medicare for All' or Obamacare repeal"

*those are ways of lowering health care costs. That is like saying "people want to go to the beach, not drive in a car, or take a bus" How the heck to they expect to get lower health care costs?

Washington may be obsessed with enacting "Medicare for All" or repealing Obamacare, but Americans have other priorities.

They want Congress to prioritize reducing health care costs and protecting those with pre-existing conditions, according to a Kaiser Family Foundation poll released Wednesday.

farley3k wrote:

Just a stupid title...

"Most Americans want lower health care costs, not 'Medicare for All' or Obamacare repeal"

*those are ways of lowering health care costs. That is like saying "people want to go to the beach, not drive in a car, or take a bus" How the heck to they expect to get lower health care costs?

Washington may be obsessed with enacting "Medicare for All" or repealing Obamacare, but Americans have other priorities.

They want Congress to prioritize reducing health care costs and protecting those with pre-existing conditions, according to a Kaiser Family Foundation poll released Wednesday.

Sure. Sure. We all want hot food, but we can't afford to bring that dangerous fire into our houses!

Sounds like it's just a matter of marketing then. Instead of calling it Medicare for all, call it the

Effective
Affordable
Treatment
That
Helps
Everyone
Receive
Incredibly
Comprehensive
Healthcare

act.

Direct
Effective
Affordable
Treatment
Helping
People
Attain
Neverending
Excellent
Lifecare

?

Restorative
Easy
Palliative
Essential
Accessible
Litheness

https://www.healthcaredive.com/news/...

It is one thing after the other. I just cannot fathom that we are living in these times.

I was discussing with my wife that we won't end up with M4A because people generally want it, but because the GOP/conservatives/whoever will fight so hard for no or backwards progress on health coverage that people will go for anything to help.

The GOP continues to be hell bent on manufacturing one crisis after another to retain their power. I wonder what it would look like if they actually stopped trying to dismantle things and improve them instead.

JC wrote:

The GOP continues to be hell bent on manufacturing one crisis after another to retain their power. I wonder what it would look like if they actually stopped trying to dismantle things and improve them instead.

We'll just have to wait until after the 2020 election for the Republicans to finally unveil their healthcare plan, which I'm told is totally super awesome, will give everyone absolutely everything they want, and will be way cheaper than what people are currently paying.

The GOP solution: death! It's free and everyone can get it.

JC wrote:

The GOP continues to be hell bent on manufacturing one crisis after another to retain their power. I wonder what it would look like if they actually stopped trying to dismantle things and improve them instead.

They can't run on "government is broken" campaigns unless they keep it broken.

Death is certainly not free. Nor is it without its own brand of mayhem.

Twitter users answer the question: "When did you become radicalized by the U.S. health care non-system?"

With 2,700 replies and counting, All On Medicare's tweet asking When did you become radicalized by the U.S. health care non-system? is now one of the most thorough (and thoroughly depressing) collections of evidence of the need for healthcare reform you're likely to encounter.

The title story of my new book Radicalized is about angry men whose most cherished family members are condemned to slow, painful deaths after their insurers refuse to cover lifesaving treatments by classing them as "experimental." These men are radicalized on message boards where there's always someone standing by to welcome people who are suicidal in their grief by urging them on, saying "Do it! And take some of those f*ckers with you."

In the story, America is shaken by a wave of terrorist violence as angry, traumatized white dudes start to suicide-bomb health insurance companies and take shots at senators funded by them. These white guys are not classed as terrorists -- not at first, anyway -- because the color of their skin dictates that they be called "lone wolves" and the victims of their crimes are not the most charismatic people in America.

Reading this thread took me back to the research I did on the story, looking through Gofundme pages for people who only wanted to die knowing that their death wouldn't impoverish their loved ones. American health care is the most broken system in the world. I grew up with Canadian socialised medicine, then lived with the UK NHS for 13 years and now I'm in the USA and insured by Cinga (insert anguished scream here), and I'm here to tell you that Americans suffer under a system that no one else in the rich world has to tolerate.

* "Watching my best friend’s father go from serene acceptance of his lymphoma diagnosis to shame and despair on his deathbed two years later that his treatment had permanently impoverished his wife and son. When my father received his own diagnosis, he refused all treatment instead." (@sisyphusmyths)
* "My father killed himself so he wouldn’t bankrupt the family trying to treat his Parkinson’s. He was my best friend. We did a Go Fund Me for his medical care and ended up using it for his funeral" (@ErinDeweyLennox)
* "Early elementary school after eavesdropping on my mom while she fought with the insurance company to get my insulin to keep me alive. High school when my dad had to ask for an advance on his paycheck for my med device supplies. College when I had to ration my insulin." (@msinsulindpndnt)

The people who profit from and perpetuate this system really are f*cking evil. There's no other word for it.

Rallick wrote:

The people who profit from and perpetuate this system really are f*cking evil. There's no other word for it.

And were supposed to feel bad that M4A would put them out of business.

Quintin_Stone wrote:
Rallick wrote:

The people who profit from and perpetuate this system really are f*cking evil. There's no other word for it.

And were supposed to feel bad that M4A would put them out of business.

Nope! No one felt bad about switchboard operators becoming obsolete.