Dark Souls II Catch-All

ClockworkHouse wrote:

The Scholar differences are pretty significant, in my opinion, and also much more difficult. Were there a lot of complaints that the initial release was too easy?

It actually scales a little more natually, which means though it starts out more difficult but it doesn't have the spikes the original release did.

On release, lore wise there were alot of issues that made little sense. Enemy and item placement was confusing and made the games story harder to follow, things seemed to be dumped in places with little thought. Scholar remedied this and fixed alot of the lore around the game, it's a much tighter experience overall in my opinion.

I went through most of No-man's Wharf last night, so thanks for letting me know how to get there! I rang the bell and opened up the shortcut but had to skedaddle because I was entirely out of spell charges and had already used one of my amber herbs. Are those going to remain as rare as they've been so far? For such a useful item, I hate that they're so scarce.

I also finally went over to the Cathedral of Blue and encountered a very familiar boss. Without his buddy, he's a lot easier to defeat. I was then a little surprised to find out that the rest of the Cathedral of Blue was literally a balcony and an empty room with a bonfire.

There have been a few areas like that in the game so far: odd little curlicues in the world that don't really connect to anything but offer a side challenge. The other games have trained me to expect these spaces to loop back into the rest of the area somehow, so it's a little surprising when they don't, but overall, I feel like the levels and encounter spaces have been better than the first game. Not as good as the best parts of Dark Souls, for sure, but so far no completely uninspired monster hallways and filler zones.

I also finally took on the first encounter with the Pursuer at the top of the Forest of Fallen Giants. With a better character level and some more experience with the game's unique timings under my belt, I was able to win after a few attempts. And speaking of weird curlicues in the level design, how odd is it that both this encounter and No-man's Wharf lead to the same place?

I've stuck with my caster build and have leaned into sorcery and hexes. I'm not running with a shield and currently don't meet the minimum stats to even equip one, so that's been a significant difference from my run through Dark Souls where I had a huge pool of stamina and tanked every hit. I'm probably screwing myself in the long run by not giving myself some better defense, but for the time being, I'm managing.

ClockworkHouse wrote:

There have been a few areas like that in the game so far: odd little curlicues in the world that don't really connect to anything but offer a side challenge.

Yeah there are a fair few unfinished little branches in the base game, a hang over from the troubled development cycle

ClockworkHouse wrote:

The other games have trained me to expect these spaces to loop back into the rest of the area somehow, so it's a little surprising when they don't,

Yeah there is not much of this. The game is much more arranged like spokes on a wheel radiating out from majula. Because you can teleport from the get-go there's just less need for the game to have clever compact level design. The DLC does a much better job of capturing the level design of DS1.

ClockworkHouse wrote:

but overall, I feel like the levels and encounter spaces have been better than the first game. Not as good as the best parts of Dark Souls, for sure, but so far no completely uninspired monster hallways and filler zones.

Don't worry, there's plent of uninspired filler to come in the base game

DanB wrote:
ClockworkHouse wrote:

The other games have trained me to expect these spaces to loop back into the rest of the area somehow, so it's a little surprising when they don't,

Yeah there is not much of this. The game is much more arranged like spokes on a wheel radiating out from majula. Because you can teleport from the get-go there's just less need for the game to have clever compact level design. The DLC does a much better job of capturing the level design of DS1.

I'm not surprised that the main zones don't link back up with each other. But I was thinking of things like the Soldier's Rest area in Forest of Fallen Giants. That's the area off to the side of second bonfire that's opened up with the Soldier's Key, at the end of a long, dark hallway. There's a bonfire there, some enemies, and a little fort area, but it's completely self-contained. It's weird.

I don't really expect Forest of Fallen Giants to connect to the other zones, but I guess I expected it to always connect back to itself. For me, that's one of the hallmarks of the zone design in Bloodborne and Dark Souls 3 (or the Painted World of Ariamis in Dark Souls) and it's something I really enjoy. I honestly don't give a hoot if the whole world is interconnected and actually think Dark Souls is weaker for having done that.

DanB wrote:
ClockworkHouse wrote:

but overall, I feel like the levels and encounter spaces have been better than the first game. Not as good as the best parts of Dark Souls, for sure, but so far no completely uninspired monster hallways and filler zones.

Don't worry, there's plent of uninspired filler to come in the base game

Oh, good. I was really worried that From Software had made a consistently good product.

I never completed Dark Souls 2 but I don't remember anything as bad as Lost Izalith/demon ruins.

I actually really enjoy the design and combat in Darksouls 2 it's just missing that wrap around Darksouls had that I really loved.

Gonna start Scholar myself tonight any interesting builds I should go for? I usually run dex but had a lot of fun with my strength build when I played DS last week.

I can't remember if you said you've played 2 before now... but in case you haven't...
One of the fun things about DS2 is that you can dual wield ANY two weapons. Literally any.
Get your stats to 1.5x the weapon requirements, then hold triangle when you have weapons in both hands and you'll shift stance. Now L1 and L2 are your attack buttons that utilize both weapons.

What makes this fun is dual wielding dex based weapons (my favorite are dual poisoned spotted whips!), but you can also dual wield greatswords if you so choose.

I think the connecting back on itself stuff in Painted World of Ariamis and in the DS2 DLC is done really well. It's almost always useful given the bonfire locations. I can't think of a single loopback/shortcut that opens up in DS3 that is useful, almost always there is a bonfire immediately on the other side of any shortcut in DS3 and that makes almost all of them pointless.

I think I need to finish Sekiro, DLC of DS3, then wrap around and do a DS2 run. Some point in there Witcher 3 as well. lmao, so see you all in....2025?

Taharka wrote:

I can't remember if you said you've played 2 before now... but in case you haven't...
One of the fun things about DS2 is that you can dual wield ANY two weapons. Literally any.
Get your stats to 1.5x the weapon requirements, then hold triangle when you have weapons in both hands and you'll shift stance. Now L1 and L2 are your attack buttons that utilize both weapons.

What makes this fun is dual wielding dex based weapons (my favorite are dual poisoned spotted whips!), but you can also dual wield greatswords if you so choose.

Might have to try this although I'm not sure if I can handle not having a shield might be out of my skill range.

DanB wrote:

I think the connecting back on itself stuff in Painted World of Ariamis and in the DS2 DLC is done really well. It's almost always useful given the bonfire locations. I can't think of a single loopback/shortcut that opens up in DS3 that is useful, almost always there is a bonfire immediately on the other side of any shortcut in DS3 and that makes almost all of them pointless.

I think the short cuts in DS3 were useful but they dont seem to work the same as they did in the first game. The first game the world literally wrapped around on itself in useful ways. As the series progressed I found that the new short cuts would only be useful of you were willing to run past groups of enemies or avoid encounters.

This has carried over into Sekiro as far as I can tell, it feels like you meticulously explore and pick up items then once you are ready to challenge the boss you know which mob encounters are avoidable and how to quickly path over to the boss.

I'm looking forward to getting into the DLC in 2 I have heard nothing but fantastic things about it.

Rave wrote:
Taharka wrote:

I can't remember if you said you've played 2 before now... but in case you haven't...
One of the fun things about DS2 is that you can dual wield ANY two weapons. Literally any.
Get your stats to 1.5x the weapon requirements, then hold triangle when you have weapons in both hands and you'll shift stance. Now L1 and L2 are your attack buttons that utilize both weapons.

What makes this fun is dual wielding dex based weapons (my favorite are dual poisoned spotted whips!), but you can also dual wield greatswords if you so choose.

Might have to try this although I'm not sure if I can handle not having a shield might be out of my skill range.

DanB wrote:

I think the connecting back on itself stuff in Painted World of Ariamis and in the DS2 DLC is done really well. It's almost always useful given the bonfire locations. I can't think of a single loopback/shortcut that opens up in DS3 that is useful, almost always there is a bonfire immediately on the other side of any shortcut in DS3 and that makes almost all of them pointless.

I think the short cuts in DS3 were useful but they dont seem to work the same as they did in the first game. The first game the world literally wrapped around on itself in useful ways. As the series progressed I found that the new short cuts would only be useful of you were willing to run past groups of enemies or avoid encounters.

This has carried over into Sekiro as far as I can tell, it feels like you meticulously explore and pick up items then once you are ready to challenge the boss you know which mob encounters are avoidable and how to quickly path over to the boss.

I'm looking forward to getting into the DLC in 2 I have heard nothing but fantastic things about it.

Best part about Darksouls 2 is being able to Dual wield specifically the Orma/Reevers Great shields. Dual shields = best shield.

Dual... shields?

ClockworkHouse wrote:

Dual... shields?

Yes. Sadly the enemy that drops the needed shields is about 3/4 through the game. Also random drop chance and you need both to drop. Sooooo bit of luck. However, if you get them it is amazing. You can cheese the drop chance by not saving killing enemy 10 times, if you don't get both re-load etc.

My first play through i fought the enemy that had them and asked Dyni if you could get both and he laughed said that would be cool but no. However, then I found out you could (apparently dyni only knows 99.9% of all things about DS). That was my favorite run (was a NG+ run because you get them so late) of any DS game. It's funny because normally I never use any shields.

2 shields > no shields
noo shields > 1 shield

AMAZING.

escher77 wrote:

My first play through i fought the enemy that had them and asked Dyni if you could get both and he laughed said that would be cool but no. However, then I found out you could (apparently dyni only knows 99.9% of all things about DS). That was my favorite run (was a NG+ run because you get them so late) of any DS game. It's funny because normally I never use any shields.

Gotta be wrong sometimes to keep you on your toes Hmmm, maybe this is the build I'll shoot for when I try SotFS. Sounds like a fun build to run through the DLC.

ClockworkHouse wrote:

Dual... shields?

My in depth historical research which consisted of watching random YouTube videos that showed up in my autoplay list already indicated that this idea is ridiculous.

So I finished the Lost Bastille. I found a blacksmith who's sitting on a chest. Move dammit! I want what's in there.

There's this woman from a distant land who showed up twice, like she's following me. Very skillfully following me since she was able to predict where I was going to show up and wait there. I guess an outside observer would think it was more likely that I was following her then, but whatever! It sounds like she might be on a similar quest to mine. She seems intrigued by me and gave me a gift. Why does this make me suspicious? Sure, she could be an ally, but I wouldn't be surprised if she attacks me at some point after we've built up what counts in Dark Souls as a friendship. She looks like quite the swashbuckler.

I come across a new area called Sinner's Rise, with similar architecture. There's another one of those Flexile Sentries that jumps out at me in a long hallway filed with water. I don't like hallways filled with water. There's usually stuff lying down in them waiting to get up and they also remind me of that part of Amnesia: Dark Descent. And Splicers in Bioshock.

Anyway, this time it apparently doesn't count as a boss but just a regular monster- no health bar. Not sure if I should have even capitalized its name then. Anyway, this surely adds a new, lower, level in my proposed boss hierarchy:
1. Bosses with cutscenes and achievements
2. Bosses with a cutscene or an achievement
3. Bosses
4. Bosses who come back as regular monsters later

At the end of the area is a new (level 1!) boss- The First Sinner. A bug crawls into her eye which seems significant and gives me a brief sense of deja vu related to Dark Souls 1, but I don't really remember the details or understand the significance. No time to waste brain cells on it. Time to fight. She's pretty straightforward and I come close to beating her but I wasted most of my flasks on the sentry. Next time I just run past it and for a change, I actually do kill her the second time around. She has her own personal bonfire in the back and I found out she was one of four great souls I'm supposed to gather. Hurrah!

Not sure where to go next so I try the dragon again briefly. Nope. Then I try the Pursuer. This time I hold my own. Within a few more tries he's dead. Circling right seemed to work better than circling left. Only trouble was rolling aside when he did the shield slam, which is brutal. My rolls seem sluggish now. Probably has something to do with my gear, but I'm too lazy to figure it out. Who needs rolling when I have my trusty tower shield? I found a new, upgraded armor set nearby.

Then, as Clockwork mentioned it just takes you around to another part of the Bastille. The bird ride brought on another DS1 flashback. DS1 is a big blur to me but even I have no trouble remembering that part.

I suspect I missed the Cathedral of Blue. I'll look for it later.

gewy wrote:

My in depth historical research which consisted of watching random YouTube videos that showed up in my autoplay list already indicated that this idea is ridiculous.

Maybe for a mortal but not for a undead hallow that can carry 2 shields that probably weight about 400 lbs each.

I got through No-man's Wharf. Eventually. This was the first time that I deliberately depopulated part of the map. The run back from the bonfire to the boss is a long and tedious run that's only barely shortened by a portcullis that only opens from the back side. You still have to weave your way past a number of lunging enemies, archers, and a dog in cramped spaces.

But most of my problem was right at the very beginning of the zone, where two separate paths converge on an archer with fire arrows and a Viking-looking warrior who likes to throw urns. If the Viking hit me with an urn on the slender walkways of the pier and the archer hit me with an arrow, I was guaranteed to die in a single shot, which could happen anywhere I was in range of the archer. So I culled both the Viking and the archer from the map.

I was also having trouble with a swarm of Vikings once I got to the boat. I thought they were enemies I had run past earlier who pursued me, so I culled those, too. But it turns out that the swarm actually spawns in when you get to the boat, so my culling was for nothing.

After the Viking swarm on the boat, the Flexile Sentry was anticlimactic. I kept my distance and easily burned it down with Resonant Soul, which is a surprisingly brutal hex. I wasn't expecting much from it and put off using it because it costs souls to cast, but it's worth the cost for the amount of damage it does.

I then ended up in Lost Bastille a second time. What a weird zone. There are two paths into it that each lead you to the boss in different ways, but if you travel through both sides then you get an item in one path that lets you unlock a door in the other path to skip the area boss. That's a really interesting idea and not something I've seen in one of these games before.

There's also what's obviously an explosive wall that I can't seem to explode. That's frustrating.

I've explored the Pursuer half of the zone and now need to go back for the No-man's Wharf half. I haven't decided yet if I'll skip the boss or not. I like having the option to, but I'm also the type who almost always fights all the optional and side bosses. I'll probably end up using both the shortcut and killing the boss.

Sounds like you had a harder time with the wharf than I did but the Sentry was significantly easier with your magic character.

If the exploding wall is the one I’m thinking of, someone left a message at the top of the stairs with a big guy and an explosive barrel that said, “try rolling”. If not for that, I would have probably missed it.

I rolled the barrel and it does nothing! Apparently the physics there can get a bit wonky and sometimes you have to firebomb it yourself.

Yeah I had to roll it into place then detonate with a firebomb.

Forgot I fought another boss in the Bastille: three Ruin Sentinels. They gave me a bit of trouble, but once I figured out I could stay in the corner and take one down before the other two became aggressive, it was manageable.

The dragon is still alive. There may be some scattered secrets I missed. Maybe some of Pharros' gadgets or petrified people, but for the most part I think I'm done with this branch of the map and not sure where to go next. That hole in the ground at Majula has been bothering me since I can see some items down there. I buy the cat's key and drop down. Then I see more objects and platforms even lower. Fast forward, several unfortunate deaths later and I've found a bonfire and new area, but still haven't safely reached the very bottom platform. I find that I have lower tolerance for repeatedly dying from falls and jumps than from fighting so I give up on it for a while.

The new area appears to be burial catacombs- Grave of the Saints. I'm attacked by large rats and unremarkable hollows, who are manageable, but I have this vague feeling of being disoriented that I can't shake. Then I start running into lots of Pharros' contraptions. I use my remaining lockstone and it doesn't seem to do anything. There's either going to be a large source of lockstones later or this is a fiendish design to frustrate me by wasting them all. Either way, I just don't want to fool around with it now. So I head back to Majula and take the alternate pathway opened up by Licia. Huntsman's Copse is next apparently.

gewy wrote:

There's either going to be a large source of lockstones later or this is a fiendish design to frustrate me by wasting them all.

A little from column A, a little from column B

Why does that not surprise me?

Huntsman's Copse was a small mostly outdoor area. I enjoyed the fresh air despite it being gloomy. Most of the opponents were fairly easy. Some notable exceptions include the annoying poison-spewing moths and this giant frog in a pool of poison at the bottom of a cave. The moths inspired me to actually learn how to use my bow finally.

There were a couple of items that required several frustrating jumps to get.

I was invaded twice by NPC dark spirits which was cool. Neither was too hard.

Resurrecting (not sure that's the right word- maybe reassembling) skeletons. I remember those from DS1.

Also a boss that was three Skeleton Lords. By the end of this battle I was surrounded by small skeletons but I was able to effectively herd them and take them out 1-2 at a time.

Then I got to Harvest Valley. I'm not sure what kind of harvest this valley has. Seems like it's just rocky desolation and poison. Some particularly tough enemies encountered include fireball tossing ladies and giants who cast some kind of dark magic orbs. Of course there are items scattered all over the poison. I have to run in and out of the poison, fishing them out one by one. I die from poisoning multiple times. Annoyingly some of them are fading souls which are worth like 50 souls. That's a bit sadistic.

One particularly tough encounter around here involved getting stuck in a small area with 4 huge dual-wielding crescent guys. They hit hard and swing in a wide arc. I think this is the first time in DS2 when I felt like I was using a total cheese tactic. I ran out on a ledge overlooking the area and let them all follow me. Only one can attack me at a time there. I hit the guy a couple of times, drop down and run away. Then I played keep away from them until they were away from the ledge which I ran up again. Repeated several times til they were all dead.

Found a woman obsessing over stones. I presume that's the blacksmith's daughter.

I joined a new covenant: Heirs of the Sun. Not sure what that means, but OK. Praise the Sun I guess?

In the distance was a large building with multiple windmills out the exterior. Looks like I'm heading to it next.

I found the Gutter.

It's... It's... It's Blighttown Two, isn't it?

It's mostly just annoying. I don't remember it being especially difficult. I wouldn't even say it's worthy of being the Blighttown sequel, although that's what they're going for.

The gutter is basically just a passage to another area, right? annoying puzzle zone with no real point?

If it's the first time through it is worth lighting all the sconces

ClockworkHouse wrote:

I found the Gutter.

It's... It's... It's Blighttown Two, isn't it?

It's Valley of Defilement Three.

ClockworkHouse wrote:

I found the Gutter.

It's... It's... It's Blighttown Two, isn't it?

IMAGE(https://img.fireden.net/v/image/1530/63/1530634017858.jpg)

I liked it, somewhat. Better than the dark giants zone in DS1 at least. The torches makes it easier to navigate and feel like you are progressing.