The Outer Worlds Catch-All

I stand corrected, then.

Which is a good sign for Epic, then, because if PC gamers hate it now but are still buying the games (see: Metro Exodus' sales numbers), it's only a matter of time before they love or are complacent with it!

Spoiler:

As you can guess, I wasn't a PC gamer back when Half-Life 2 launched, either. I knew a lot of PC gamers, but they were basically just spending their energy reminding me how lame consoles were.

ccesarano wrote:

Exclusivity may be consumer unfriendly, but monopolies (or near-monopoly) are even worse. Steam may not be a literal monopoly, but they've been close enough to one for a long time. Given that this is, at most, an inconvenience for PC gamers to deal with exclusivity, well... I think it's better in the long run, because this means Valve is now in a position where they have to be accountable.

They have a really strong position, even somewhat monopoly-like, but you can buy most PC games (excluding Valves own games) , without ever giving Valve a dollar. Not exactly the strongest monopoly.

ccesarano wrote:

It may not be the most "user-friendly" business decision, but given that the worst you have to do is choose between two free storefronts as opposed to, say, two $300+ console systems... yeah, it doesn't seem like that big of a deal. Worst case scenario is you stop having the programs run in the background so they don't take up PC resource space, and ...that's... hardly the worst case scenario.

Increased prices are also 'worse'. If you have to pay $10 more per game, some day it adds up to that console price

ccesarano wrote:

Other companies have tried to compete, but Epic is the first one that poses a threat, and they pose a threat specifically because of those exclusivity deals forcing customers to choose their platform. Sure, if they offered better prices on a handful of games some players may migrate, but in reality most players would just stick with Steam because that's where their friends/library are.

Probably too early to conclude whether Epic poses any threat to Steam. Not that they really need to. Everything does not have to be an instant WoW-killer.
But if they want to convince people they are going to offer a better alternative, one relatively easy start would have been to sell their exclusive games at reasonable, competitive prices.

I recall some time ago that Epic has a plan to offer "Steamworks"-like utility to game developers, which would supposedly be platform-agnostic. That seems like a smart way to attack Steam, if you can make games have shared friendlists, chat etc. no matter if it is on Steam, Epic, GoG etc. Takes some of the network externality benefit away that Steam currently got.
Heck, instead of buying games, they could pay devs to include their "Epic Tools" in their games, to get that going. At least that would not negatively affect anyone.

Also not sure how this really makes Steam accountable? Steam can't prevent their competitors from buying exclusivity. It is not something Steam can compete with - other than maybe buying their own exclusive games - so in which way does it benefit anyone?
If you compete on features, price etc. then Steam might have to answer.

ClockworkHouse wrote:
ccesarano wrote:

PC users gobbled Steam up because 1) All Hail Emperor Gabe, and 2) it was the least intrusive DRM that came with the benefit of being a storefront, a friends list, and a games library tool.

I remember when Steam first rolled around with Half-Life 2, and PC gamers f*cking hated it. And they hated the first games that required Steam that weren't made by Valve. Valve purchased a lot of goodwill with their Crazy Ed's sale prices and giveaways.

I remember this too. It’s hard to push back on my initial irrational “NO ALL GAMES ONE LAUNCHER” feeling but stopping and thinking about it helps.

I do wish the Epic launcher came out fully formed and didn’t miss basic functionality. Games that have exclusively is not a problem since I can still play it, not having the price in my country’s currency is very frustrating.

Shadout wrote:

Increased prices are also 'worse'. If you have to pay $10 more per game, some day it adds up to that console price :)

I'm gonna need someone to link a source on this, because no one else seems to be discussing it. Are the Epic exclusive games selling for $70? Or is the assumption that they'd be $50 on Steam and are now $60? I could have sworn everything was still $60 MSRP, and digital sales haven't budged in terms of being "more affordable".

Also not sure how this really makes Steam accountable? Steam can't prevent their competitors from buying exclusivity. It is not something Steam can compete with - other than maybe buying their own exclusive games - so in which way does it benefit anyone?

To better explain, when I say accountable, I mean Valve can no longer shrug their shoulders when users gripe and say "Where else ya gonna go?" The very threat of a worthwhile competitor means players now have a reason to leave your platform. See the sort of hubris Sony had when launching the PS3, when they assumed consumers were just going to stick with them because of the prior two generations, and also the hubris of Microsoft, who assumed people would stick with them since they dominated with the Xbox 360.

Or even Nintendo's own degree of hubris, knowing they'll always have a steady customer base. They've made plenty of poor decisions themselves and have been forced to take some lumps. Now Steam is in a spot where they have real, tangible consequences beyond people griping.

ccesarano wrote:
Shadout wrote:

Increased prices are also 'worse'. If you have to pay $10 more per game, some day it adds up to that console price :)

I'm gonna need someone to link a source on this, because no one else seems to be discussing it. Are the Epic exclusive games selling for $70? Or is the assumption that they'd be $50 on Steam and are now $60? I could have sworn everything was still $60 MSRP, and digital sales haven't budged in terms of being "more affordable".

A few of the games that are exclusive to Epic have actually lowered their prices to pass the savings from Epic's smaller take on to buyers. I think the "games cost more now" thing comes down to exchange rates and key sellers like GMG that typically do launch discounts on things.

ccesarano wrote:
Shadout wrote:

Increased prices are also 'worse'. If you have to pay $10 more per game, some day it adds up to that console price :)

I'm gonna need someone to link a source on this, because no one else seems to be discussing it. Are the Epic exclusive games selling for $70? Or is the assumption that they'd be $50 on Steam and are now $60? I could have sworn everything was still $60 MSRP, and digital sales haven't budged in terms of being "more affordable".

Everything is still $60 MSRP, but games that can be activated on Steam tend to sell for less than that. Not on Steam itself of course, but on the third party sellers (Humble etc), since well, there was actual competition.
I can't recall when I last paid $60 to activate a game on Steam. Maybe never.

ccesarano wrote:

To better explain, when I say accountable, I mean Valve can no longer shrug their shoulders when users gripe and say "Where else ya gonna go?"
[...] Now Steam is in a spot where they have real, tangible consequences beyond people griping.

Well, Epic has very few games currently, so going there is not that viable. And the games they have are mostly exclusives, so people can't exactly tell Valve that they have chosen to leave Steam because they would rather play The Outer Worlds at Epics platform, because that could not be true.
And if you didnt want to support Steam, while it was often hard to avoid their platform (as in Steamworks etc.), you can pretty much completely skip their shop, and not give Valve any money. Which ought to be a decent way to tell Valve that you are not happy about something too - even if not an optimal way of course.
More alternatives to Steam can only be a good thing - but Epic does not exactly act like they want to be an alternative to Steam, they just want their own little monopoly of games.
Maybe they will compete some day, and I get there is an argument that Epic has to be jerks today, so they can actually compete in some potential future. Maybe that will turn out true, and we call all rejoice. But I dont see a reason to like what they are doing here and now.

ClockworkHouse wrote:

A few of the games that are exclusive to Epic have actually lowered their prices to pass the savings from Epic's smaller take on to buyers. I think the "games cost more now" thing comes down to exchange rates and key sellers like GMG that typically do launch discounts on things.

It is true that in some parts of the world, Epic lowered the price, even compared to what others do.
But I hope its okay I speak from a European view, just like you speak from an American one, when it comes to prices. It does not affect me greatly, if the price is lowered in Brazil.
That said, its awesome that Epic lowered the price in Brazil (I don't actually know if they did that specifically, but they did in a bunch of countries). Again, that is a great way to compete.

And no, exchange rate does not factor in. Nobody sells games in my currency, I would not expect them to ever do that. So I got an exchange rate everywhere.

Exchange rate does factor in for me. There's no reason that the Epic store doesn't have CAD. Right now, very little is actually cheaper on the Epic store.

*MOD*

Enough with the Epic exclusive chat in game threads. Start a fresh, general thread for it if you want to debate it further.

Edit: Certis and I cross-posted. Removed my post.

The Outer Worlds - PAX East 2019 Gameplay Demo Walkthrough
*didn't see this in the thread

Today's trailer looked fantastic.

Release date of October 25th.

Awesome to see in Microsoft's conference a definitive statement that this is coming to Game Pass. Now I'll be playing it day one for sure.

Yep. Certainly going to subscribe to GamePass for this.
Hopefully Microsoft fixed their beta issues before then.

man, bummed this is xbox exclusive. maybe i can convince the wife i need a new laptop for "work"

Fallout: New Borderlands.

It is not Xbox exclusive, is it? Unless something changed.

No, it's cross-platform. Xbox One, PS4 and PC. Private Division is 2K's AA-publishing arm that funded this game. Microsoft bought Obsidian before this game launched, yes, but as they didn't fund this game it is releasing cross-platform in accordance with the original contract.

So it's Obsidian's last cross-platform for a while. Or forever. Who knows.

Exclusive to Epic store for a year though. Yeah, introduce new competitors but don't lock stuff away so we have to use those competitors only otherwise it's as bad as having no competitors at all. Exclusivity hurts the consumer. Just give me the option to buy it wherever I want. Over this crap.

BlackSabre wrote:

Exclusive to Epic store for a year though. Yeah, introduce new competitors but don't lock stuff away so we have to use those competitors only otherwise it's as bad as having no competitors at all. Exclusivity hurts the consumer. Just give me the option to buy it wherever I want. Over this crap.

I think it'll be on the Microsoft Store for PC users on day one as well if I recall, so not Epic Exclusive.

Yep just looked it up, MS Store and Epic day one.

MS store is pretty damn terrible. Downloading both Forza Horizon 3 and 4 had a lot of issues. I'll probably go the Epic store. Would just like to have the choice of all platforms. :/

It'll be Day1 on Game Pass for PC, too....

GrandSlamSingle wrote:

man, bummed this is xbox exclusive. maybe i can convince the wife i need a new laptop for "work"

I started thinking that too since it was at the Microsoft event luckily it is coming for the PS4.

It kind of feels like Sony let MS to the labor to get hype for a game they will have too.

BlackSabre wrote:

MS store is pretty damn terrible. Downloading both Forza Horizon 3 and 4 had a lot of issues. I'll probably go the Epic store. Would just like to have the choice of all platforms. :/

Hopefully GamePass will make them care enough to make a somewhat decent store some day. Won't hold my breath though.

Shadout wrote:
BlackSabre wrote:

MS store is pretty damn terrible. Downloading both Forza Horizon 3 and 4 had a lot of issues. I'll probably go the Epic store. Would just like to have the choice of all platforms. :/

Hopefully GamePass will make them care enough to make a somewhat decent store some day. Won't hold my breath though.

Havent had a single issue.

Xbox App, more specifically the Xbox beta App means I (still) never need to see the MS Store.

omni wrote:

It'll be Day1 on Game Pass for PC, too....

Wait... what... is that the same thing as the new monhtly MS ~Xbox/(X) game service version that is coming out for PC [too] ? The relatively little piece I've absorbed concerning that has me excited. I could see such being my personal Steam killer -- notwithstanding that MS has historically, to my novice eyes, been all over the map with how they want to juggle their dual baskets of Xbox and PC gaming.