Playstation 4 Catch-All

escher77 wrote:
ClockworkHouse wrote:

I'm pretty sure there's a Wii thread around here somewhere to hash out this argument in again, yeah?

Argument about a Switch would be equally out of place in a "Wii" thread as it is in a PS4 thread.

I think the conversation flowed naturally here, wasn't exactly a de-rail. That said we can go back to talking about the gold head sets now if everyone wants.

escher77 wrote:
ClockworkHouse wrote:

I'm pretty sure there's a Wii thread around here somewhere to hash out this argument in again, yeah?

Argument about a Switch would be equally out of place in a "Wii" thread as it is in a PS4 thread.

On the contrary, it's the Wii arguments all over again. The console and its games are selling like gangbusters. Yeah, but that's only first-party games and not real, high graphic games. The ports of those games seem to have done well. But they were all ports. But how many simultaneous releases have there been? The Nintendo console is underpowered, so it doesn't get "AAA" games.

Alternatively, you could hit up the Wii U or 3DS threads. That would work, too.

Rave wrote:

I think the conversation flowed naturally here, wasn't exactly a de-rail. That said we can go back to talking about the gold head sets now if everyone wants.

It's just a very, very tired conversation and has been for the last 13 years. The Switch hasn't fundamentally altered the specs vs AAA games-for-gamers conversation around Nintendo consoles. This is just that again, but it's not even relevant to the specific game being discussed.

ClockworkHouse wrote:
escher77 wrote:
ClockworkHouse wrote:

I'm pretty sure there's a Wii thread around here somewhere to hash out this argument in again, yeah?

Argument about a Switch would be equally out of place in a "Wii" thread as it is in a PS4 thread.

On the contrary, it's the Wii arguments all over again. The console and its games are selling like gangbusters. Yeah, but that's only first-party games and not real, high graphic games. The ports of those games seem to have done well. But they were all ports. But how many simultaneous releases have there been? The Nintendo console is underpowered, so it doesn't get "AAA" games.

Alternatively, you could hit up the Wii U or 3DS threads. That would work, too. ;)

Unlike those other consoles though everything is selling on the switch not just first party stuff. Ubisoft and Bethesda have stated they are very happy with how well stuff performs.

As for the power difference yeah there is no denying that the bigger consoles run circles around the switch. I have a great pc though and if that was my only determining factor is play only on it. I enjoy the ease of use of a console though so often o just default to my weaker ps4. It's also the reason I haven't upgraded to a pro. The base model performs well enough.

And I'd argue that also works in the switch case. Playing Warframe at 30 fps with some frame hiccups is still pretty cool to do while watching tv with my wife. Even if I could play the vastly superior PS4 or even PC version. It makes the switch vastly more competitive with this gen of consoles then either the Wii or WiiU were.

Edit** Clocky I agree 100% it's the same argument we see with PC and the other consoles.

I just enjoy games I'll play them however I can. Just thought the conversation about why switch would be leading the charge on a port over something like the PS4 was interesting.

Rave wrote:

Just thought the conversation about why switch would be leading the charge on a port over something like the PS4 was interesting.

I guess I'm just not seeing the mystery in why a game that launched first on PC and Switch would also launch the sequel first on PC and Switch. Chaz was wrong that Hollow Knight came "late" to the Switch, and the whole conversation seems premised on that. (Plus a bit of a non sequitur about where someone would or would not theoretically buy Anthem.)

ClockworkHouse wrote:
Rave wrote:

Just thought the conversation about why switch would be leading the charge on a port over something like the PS4 was interesting.

I guess I'm just not seeing the mystery in why a game that launched first on PC and Switch would also launch the sequel first on PC and Switch. Chaz was wrong that Hollow Knight came "late" to the Switch, and the whole conversation seems premised on that.

You're right of course. I'm just a bit bored at work it's a slow day lol.

ClockworkHouse wrote:
escher77 wrote:
ClockworkHouse wrote:

I'm pretty sure there's a Wii thread around here somewhere to hash out this argument in again, yeah?

Argument about a Switch would be equally out of place in a "Wii" thread as it is in a PS4 thread.

On the contrary, it's the Wii arguments all over again. The console and its games are selling like gangbusters. Yeah, but that's only first-party games and not real, high graphic games. The ports of those games seem to have done well. But they were all ports. But how many simultaneous releases have there been? The Nintendo console is underpowered, so it doesn't get "AAA" games.

Alternatively, you could hit up the Wii U or 3DS threads. That would work, too. ;)

Argument could be made it's a very different argument being the bulk of the Wii issue was large majority of the installed user base bought the system for wii sports and first decent movement controls. Also unlike wii large 3rd party developers do like the switch just not for their cutting edge tech games. I don't believe the argument would fit in because of 1 joining factor on an discussion that has many points :P.

Evidently everyone has forgotten the huge 3rd party push you saw on the Wii when it launched and had record numbers, only to dwindle halfway through its lifespan.

Believe it or not, Activision released Call of Duty games on the Wii.

ccesarano wrote:

Evidently everyone has forgotten the huge 3rd party push you saw on the Wii when it launched and had record numbers, only to dwindle halfway through its lifespan.

Believe it or not, Activision released Call of Duty games on the Wii.

Huge push, but no one ever bought the games. Switch people are actually buying games. Which makes a massive difference. Hence the point he was making with Skyrim is valid. They brought the game and it sold well.

Third-party games sold really well on the Wii, just not the right kind of third-party games for gamers to have cared.

escher77 wrote:
ccesarano wrote:

Evidently everyone has forgotten the huge 3rd party push you saw on the Wii when it launched and had record numbers, only to dwindle halfway through its lifespan.

Believe it or not, Activision released Call of Duty games on the Wii.

Huge push, but no one ever bought the games. Switch people are actually buying games. Which makes a massive difference. Hence the point he was making with Skyrim is valid. They brought the game and it sold well.

This has reached that point where I clearly don't even know what anyone is arguing about anymore.

So how about the fact that Catherine: Full Body is coming out September 3rd? Anyone else buying that? Just me?

ccesarano wrote:

So how about the fact that Catherine: Full Body is coming out September 3rd? Anyone else buying that? Just me?

I'll be interested. Not 100% sure I'll pick it up.

I own one of the versions of that game and haven't played it yet so probably wont pick it up full body.

What even is that game?

I’m afraid to search for videos of it, but it sounds like a visual novel that somehow got a spot at EVO. Does not compute.

doubtingthomas396 wrote:

What even is that game?

I’m afraid to search for videos of it, but it sounds like a visual novel that somehow got a spot at EVO. Does not compute.

What, Catherine: Full Body?
Yes, it's a game (actual, full game, not a visual novel... though only just). It's a remaster and small expansion to the block-pushing game by Atlus, Catherine.
It's about a whiny man who becomes a sheep in his dreams having to complete block pushing puzzles in order to ascend and escape the dream, while being pursued by two women in real life both named some variation of Catherine and he has to sort out his relationship with both of them, and that doesn't even begin to cover what that insane game is about.

doubtingthomas396 wrote:

What even is that game?

I’m afraid to search for videos of it, but it sounds like a visual novel that somehow got a spot at EVO. Does not compute.

Catherine plays out over the course of a few days, and the gameplay differs significantly between day and night. During the day, it's a bit like a visual novel where you hang out with your friends, drink, and cheat on your girlfriend. At night, it's a fast-paced, challenging puzzle game where you climb a falling tower of blocks by moving and maneuvering around the blocks. It requires a lot of creative solutions and thinking on the fly. There are people who play the puzzle mode competitively, which is the EVO angle.

Oh, so it’s Truffle Trouble but with suggestive art.

Not really.

DT, based on everything I've ever seen you say about both video games and your personal views outside of video games, I don't think you'd find anything to like about Catherine. Probably best to just ignore it.

ClockworkHouse wrote:

Not really.

DT, based on everything I've ever seen you say about both video games and your personal views outside of video games, I don't think you'd find anything to like about Catherine. Probably best to just ignore it. :)

That sounds like good advice. I think I will run with it.

I didn’t like Truffle Trouble anyway.

ClockworkHouse wrote:
Rave wrote:

Just thought the conversation about why switch would be leading the charge on a port over something like the PS4 was interesting.

I guess I'm just not seeing the mystery in why a game that launched first on PC and Switch would also launch the sequel first on PC and Switch. Chaz was wrong that Hollow Knight came "late" to the Switch, and the whole conversation seems premised on that. (Plus a bit of a non sequitur about where someone would or would not theoretically buy Anthem.)

Assuming Chaz was wrong is generally a super safe assumption. I'd been hearing about Hollow Knight for long enough that I just assumed it was out on the other platforms.

I love this community. I've seen a few minor blow ups in various threads where people get a little butthurt, or a little defensive, or harp on a point a little too long. Rarely does admin have to step in and forcibly move things along. The breadth of perspective and respect for fellow GWJers is astonishing and fantastic. The lack of toxicity, despite this breadth of perspective, is both refreshing and humbling, especially considering how eloquent most of you are.

Side note: Clocky.. you say so many things I agree with completely, but you, I think, more than anyone else, get hung up on people posting the right thing thing in the right place, and seek to move a conversation to that place or create it if it doesn't exist. It made me laugh out loud at work when someone pointed a new-comer to a console thread to your "new to consoles" thread before you thought to do the same, despite having responded to their comment with a serious response. When you realized someone else had already pointed them to your thread, you didn't get silly about it, you just laughed at yourself for not realizing and doing it yourself and let it go. This is a perfect example of how incredible this group really is.

Thank you all for being decent human beings and reserving judgment most of the time while continuing to engage thoughtfully and with all good intentions. Not all humans suck!!!

Probably I should go find the drunk thread and post there. I had to edit a lot of my comments here due to typos and shalalm baskuurish satements :)
Dakuna wrote:

Side note: Clocky.. you say so many things I agree with completely, but you, I think, more than anyone else, get hung up on people posting the right thing thing in the right place, and seek to move a conversation to that place or create it if it doesn't exist.

That's a very generous read on me being a jerk.


Anyone have an opinion on the DLC for Nioh? I'm thinking about getting the game in the current PSN sale, and it's $5 more for the complete edition. But if the DLC stinks, that's still $5 wasted.

I’m curious if most have a PS4 Pro versus the Slim, or even the 500mb versions? (Or whatever other PS4 version the is out there ). And as I read it, the PS 4 Pro was a big leap forward in performance.

ClockworkHouse wrote:

Anyone have an opinion on the DLC for Nioh? I'm thinking about getting the game in the current PSN sale, and it's $5 more for the complete edition. But if the DLC stinks, that's still $5 wasted.

It doesn't stink, but how much you get out of it depends on how much you enjoy the base game. It gives you 3 new weapon types to choose from (there are 5 in the base game) and some extra missions, that are good, but only accessible later in the game.

Donan: Base model PS4 here!

Donan wrote:

I’m curious if most have a PS4 Pro versus the Slim, or even the 500mb versions? (Or whatever other PS4 version the is out there ). And as I read it, the PS 4 Pro was a big leap forward in performance.

I've had a 500gb slim for two years. It's been totally fine. Occasionally I hit storage limits, but that mostly means I need to be more realistic that it's probably fine to delete several of those games that I haven't touched in a year. From what I've heard, the performance gains on the Pro weren't that huge and varied from game to game. I think it was a $200 difference when I was buying, which was too much for me. If was only a hundred bucks different, then maybe?

ccesarano wrote:
escher77 wrote:
ccesarano wrote:

Evidently everyone has forgotten the huge 3rd party push you saw on the Wii when it launched and had record numbers, only to dwindle halfway through its lifespan.

Believe it or not, Activision released Call of Duty games on the Wii.

Huge push, but no one ever bought the games. Switch people are actually buying games. Which makes a massive difference. Hence the point he was making with Skyrim is valid. They brought the game and it sold well.

This has reached that point where I clearly don't even know what anyone is arguing about anymore.

So how about the fact that Catherine: Full Body is coming out September 3rd? Anyone else buying that? Just me?

I'm interested on how they treat the 3rd "Catherine."

Catherine Full Body is really f*cking offensive. Considerably worse than the original release. Spoilers for the new content:

Spoiler:

From what I've gleaned from people playing the Japanese release, the new love interest, Rin, is some kind of alien creature. However, she has male genitalia. When Vincent discovers this, he apparently freaks out and punches her.

If you're not familiar with it, the idea of straight men being "surprised" by trans women's genitals and attacking them is pervasive in fiction and in life. This violent "panic" is used as justification for assault and even murder.

On top of that, Catherine Full Body apparently includes a new "best" ending which promises happy endings for everyone. Part of this ending involves the game's existing trans gender character, Erica, never having transitioned at all, implying that her "true" happiness is as a man.

I've been willing to give the Persona Team some benefit of the doubt with queer issues because there seemed to be incremental improvement over time. It was possible, although a stretch, to read their efforts as well-meaning but poorly executed.

I can't do that anymore. They've responded to the well-publicized criticism of Catherine (which yes, included plenty of criticism from the queer community in Japan) by aggressively doubling down on their offensive depictions of trans women. Combined with their track record across every game since Persona 3, it's clear they believe this sh*t.

So yeah, f*ck Catherine Full Body. And f*ck Persona Team.

Donan wrote:

I’m curious if most have a PS4 Pro versus the Slim, or even the 500mb versions? (Or whatever other PS4 version the is out there ). And as I read it, the PS 4 Pro was a big leap forward in performance.

If you've only got an HD TV, it's more of a small leap forward; the primary reasons for getting a Pro, AFAICT, are if you've got a 4K TV or if you've got a PSVR.

I got a launch PS4, and upgraded to a launch Pro when it became available primarily because I'd already bought a PSVR set. I only have an HD TV, so apparently I only get the benefit of slightly better graphics or higher framerate in flatscreen gaming, but the modest increase in internal resolution on PSVR was immediately apparent when I got the Pro, and has increased since then as more devs took advantage of it. Skyrim VR, in particular, got a post-release patch that widened the graphics gap between base and Pro, which was great because at this point I've spent more time in the VR version of Skyrim than I spent in the flatscreen version that I had for seven years prior.

ClockworkHouse wrote:

Catherine Full Body is really f*cking offensive. Considerably worse than the original release. Spoilers for the new content:

Spoiler:

From what I've gleaned from people playing the Japanese release, the new love interest, Rin, is some kind of alien creature. However, she has male genitalia. When Vincent discovers this, he apparently freaks out and punches her.

If you're not familiar with it, the idea of straight men being "surprised" by trans women's genitals and attacking them is pervasive in fiction and in life. This violent "panic" is used as justification for assault and even murder.

On top of that, Catherine Full Body apparently includes a new "best" ending which promises happy endings for everyone. Part of this ending involves the game's existing trans gender character, Erica, never having transitioned at all, implying that her "true" happiness is as a man.

I've been willing to give the Persona Team some benefit of the doubt with queer issues because there seemed to be incremental improvement over time. It was possible, although a stretch, to read their efforts as well-meaning but poorly executed.

I can't do that anymore. They've responded to the well-publicized criticism of Catherine (which yes, included plenty of criticism from the queer community in Japan) by aggressively doubling down on their offensive depictions of trans women. Combined with their track record across every game since Persona 3, it's clear they believe this sh*t.

So yeah, f*ck Catherine Full Body. And f*ck Persona Team.

That is a pretty gross mis-characterization of what happen in the game.

Spoiler:

I just watched the Rin scene and he doesn't punch her. After being shocked by what he sees he backs away from her. Rin reaches out to him and he slaps her hand away. She gets upset by that and runs away in tears.

To me it looked like he regretted slapping her hand as soon as it happens. Later the character apologizes for the way he reacted.

Also the character Rin is more likely a sexless angel. From what I can tell they never say this but her brother is angel in the game. However, maybe sexless would also be under trans.

The description you have seems to be made to purposely mislead people since it is impossible to mistake the scene as a violent attack. In a world where people are murdered for being trans I can see why an attack on a trans character would upset people. It is the main reason I hate Danganronpa. This isn't case here though and is pretty disgusting to claim it is. This is a serious issue and if a mistake was made maybe the poster should actually look at the game before spreading lies.

I'm only commenting about the so called attack. The other issues I don't care about.

I was working from this description by a trans woman and misremembered the word "hit" as "punch". I apologize for the inaccuracy.

The other issues I don't care about.

That's a shame, as it's actually, for me as a trans person, by far the more upsetting issue. It's a fundamental negation of that character's identity, an implication that her identity is not only a choice but the wrong choice.

Even if the description I've read of Vincent's treatment of Rin is inaccurate, the game is deeply offensive for that issue alone. Here's another take on it from someone who is considerably more of an authority on Catherine than I am.

I'm taken aback quite a bit by your aggressive and hostile response, accusing me of "purposefully misleading" and "spreading lies" with a "disgusting" and "gross" mischaracterization, while also weirdly refusing to identify me ("the poster"). I'm sorry if Catherine is something important to you that you feel is being attacked, if that's the issue.

Sometimes this stuff feels personal. Speaking for myself, Catherine was, at one point, a game I would readily identify as my favorite game, and I've been a big booster of it and defender of it over the years. I've also been a huge fan of the Persona series. That the team has taken the opportunity of re-releasing the game—which (I should emphasize) already has some very transphobic material in the base game—to make it more offensive to queer people is personally upsetting for me. Even more so because it's targeted at people like me.

I might hold off on a purchase of it until the final release anyway, because it sounds like, regardless of personal stance, they're doing a lot of stuff I was afraid of. A lot of people were happy that the original release was pushed onto Steam, so at least you can play it on a modern platform without all the unnecessary changes.

It was a day one perch, but I might just seek out a used Xbox 360 copy of the original since my PS3 is busted and unable to play my current copy.