[News] Post a Political News Story

Ongoing discussion of the political news of the day. This thread is for 'smaller' stories that don't call for their own thread. If a story blows up, please start a new thread for it.

Jonman wrote:

I think he'll sign it or not based on which path will personally enrich him and/or his cronies the most, base erosion be damned.

Well, he's getting some number of billion dollars for the wall, and it's his mobbed up contractors who will be 'building' it. It's definitely a win for him financially. Honestly, I think it really hinges on whether or not Ann Coulter et al spin signing as manly or emasculated.

JeffreyLSmith wrote:

Notably absent from the headlines: A hard news article about the bill to prevent another shutdown.

It's on the left sidebar, most of the way down, sandwiched between "IRS warns tax returns may be less than expected" (gee, why might that be?) and "Hating Trump is more important to Dems than safety of Americans".

thrawn82 wrote:
Jonman wrote:

I think he'll sign it or not based on which path will personally enrich him and/or his cronies the most, base erosion be damned.

Well, he's getting some number of billion dollars for the wall, and it's his mobbed up contractors who will be 'building' it. It's definitely a win for him financially. Honestly, I think it really hinges on whether or not Ann Coulter et al spin signing as manly or emasculated.

I think the "Trump Derangement Syndrome" and Hannity's line above about Dems hating Trump more than caring about the American people will end up being their path forward. It's a shame that Dems hate Trump so much that they'd shut down the government a second time just to spite him, so in the face of such hatred, Trump was forced to compromise on the Wall for the time being in order to keep the Dems from just destroying the country entirely.

ClockworkHouse wrote:
thrawn82 wrote:
Jonman wrote:

I think he'll sign it or not based on which path will personally enrich him and/or his cronies the most, base erosion be damned.

Well, he's getting some number of billion dollars for the wall, and it's his mobbed up contractors who will be 'building' it. It's definitely a win for him financially. Honestly, I think it really hinges on whether or not Ann Coulter et al spin signing as manly or emasculated.

I think the "Trump Derangement Syndrome" and Hannity's line above about Dems hating Trump more than caring about the American people will end up being their path forward. It's a shame that Dems hate Trump so much that they'd shut down the government a second time just to spite him, so in the face of such hatred, Trump was forced to compromise on the Wall for the time being in order to keep the Dems from just destroying the country entirely.

This is what they want and expect

IMAGE(https://www.azquotes.com/picture-quotes/quote-but-it-was-all-right-everything-was-all-right-the-struggle-was-finished-he-had-won-the-george-orwell-36-91-53.jpg)

Spoiler alert!!!!

But this is what they're getting

IMAGE(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DGkHI6yW0AAq3F1.jpg)

I'm surprised it's worked as long as it has.

Jonman wrote:

I think he'll sign it or not based on which path will personally enrich him and/or his cronies the most, base erosion be damned.

He'll sign it because he doesn't have a choice.

McConnell made it clear at the end of the last shut down that Trump couldn't count on the Republican-held Senate to take the heat for him anymore. Twenty two Republican seats are up for grabs in 2020 and they last thing any of them need is to be tainted by (another) long and damaging government shutdown (especially when there's a good chance that the guy they're taking the heat for could be in jail in 2020). As much as the Republican base wants a wall, they also *really* want their tax refunds, loans and relief for farmers, air travel, etc.

Trump had Mulvaney signal over the weekend that the administration will try to cobble together the wall money by raiding disaster relief funds (for California and Puerto Rico), the budget of a couple of Army Corps of Engineers' flood control projects (also from California), and the budget from miscellaneous military construction projects.

And he'll probably do that without declaring an emergency because he knows that he'd lose that court battle in about ten minutes given the actual numbers and impact of undocumented immigration. Instead, the court battle will be about whether the president can move Congressionally authorized spending around and not whether America faces a clear and present danger from immigrants. And, as a bonus, Trump will be able to claim he's fighting for the wall while everything's tied up in the courts.

Conservative pundits will rage, as they normally do. The only thing I can hope is that some members of the GOP realize they don't have to submit themselves to the whims of unelected political commentators and that it's in their long-term self interest to start distancing themselves from the same. Fox News and Breitbart might be able to turn a profit getting old white people wound up, but the GOP won't be able to get and hold political offices.

OG_slinger wrote:

The only thing I can hope is that some members of the GOP realize they don't have to submit themselves to the whims of unelected political commentators and that it's in their long-term self interest to start distancing themselves from the same. Fox News and Breitbart might be able to turn a profit getting old white people wound up, but the GOP won't be able to get and hold political offices.

They will not realize it until they have lost. Then they will be like "huh, who would have thought?"

but the GOP won't be able to get and hold political offices without cheating

FIXED for truthiness.

farley3k wrote:
OG_slinger wrote:

The only thing I can hope is that some members of the GOP realize they don't have to submit themselves to the whims of unelected political commentators and that it's in their long-term self interest to start distancing themselves from the same. Fox News and Breitbart might be able to turn a profit getting old white people wound up, but the GOP won't be able to get and hold political offices.

They will not realize it until they have lost. Then they will be like "huh, who would have thought?"

The writing is on the wall for those who bother to look. Trump's base is a minority, shrinking with every old white dude's death. Their only hope to cling to power is by lying and breaking the rules until they can't get away with it anymore, or they burn the place down.

firesloth wrote:
nako wrote:

Ilhan Omar said that AIPAC holds undue influence in Washington (the words that people took issue with were "It's all about the benjamins, baby"), and in a shocking display of that not being the case AT ALL, everyone in Washington flips out and predictably calls her an antisemite.

Not only can you seemingly not criticize any policy of the Israeli government because that is their reaction every time, but what's even more remarkable is that the very transparent bad-faith accusations work every damn time! On top of that to even call someone antisemitic for attacking pro-Netanyahu lobbying groups you have to conflate the agenda of the Israeli government with the will of all Jewish people, which... one might even call a tad antisemitic. The hypocrisy of it all is astounding.

Thank you. This is exactly my reaction. It's quite clear that the AIPAC and other pro-Isreali lobbying efforts hold WAY too much power over our representatives. Why the hell is there a proliferation of anti-boycott laws (which by themselves are astoundingly insulting) if there isn't such undue influence?

They're attacking this person because she happens to be Muslim, and god-f*cking-forbid a MUSLIM WOMAN speak her mind about the atrocities Israel commits regularly.

The whole thing is insulting. They should also tread lightly: call wolf / anti-semite falsely too many times and people will stop worrying about it.

I just don't get this damned idea that any criticism of Israel is verboten and automatically anti-semitic.

EDIT: I'm not sure which should be bold, which italics: the Muslim or the woman bit? Probably I got it right.

Ilhan Omar Thankful For Colleagues Educating Her On Painful History AIPAC Lobbyists Have Had To Endure

thrawn82 wrote:
firesloth wrote:

I just don't get this damned idea that any criticism of Israel is verboten and automatically anti-semitic.

I feel like this attitude is doubly damaging. Firstly, it gives cover for a particular government should they choose to pursue atrocious policies. Secondly, it gives cover to actual anti-semites who should be rightly shunned and hated by giving them a large group of reasonable rational people to hide among.

Honestly, the rush to condemn her was the bad take, and it has done damage to progressives in the process. But hey, Putin and Trump love those own goals by progressives.

Trump calls on Omar to resign over remarks condemned as anti-Semitic

And since every accusation is a confession:

IMAGE(https://i.imgur.com/6kSzhVJ.png)

This entire episode is exactly what Russia is trying to do to us. Maybe not as much as the Right, but the Left is playing along, as well. We are so damn afraid of being called bigoted, that many of us have stopped thinking and have latched on to codewords and phrases instead of being able to think through events as they happen.

I kept looking through Omar's tweets, but I could not find anything actually anti-semitic. She criticized AIPAC and politicians that treat that organization with the same reverence as the GOP has treated the NRA. Israel may be an ally, but in their battle with the Palestinians, they are the bad guys.

It ought to be okay to say that. And it ought to be okay to support politicians that want to reign Israel in, even if AIPAC spends money on Democrats.

Jayhawker wrote:
thrawn82 wrote:
firesloth wrote:

I just don't get this damned idea that any criticism of Israel is verboten and automatically anti-semitic.

I feel like this attitude is doubly damaging. Firstly, it gives cover for a particular government should they choose to pursue atrocious policies. Secondly, it gives cover to actual anti-semites who should be rightly shunned and hated by giving them a large group of reasonable rational people to hide among.

Honestly, the rush to condemn her was the bad take, and it has done damage to progressives in the process. But hey, Putin and Trump love those own goals by progressives.

Trump calls on Omar to resign over remarks condemned as anti-Semitic

And since every accusation is a confession:

IMAGE(https://i.imgur.com/6kSzhVJ.png)

This entire episode is exactly what Russia is trying to do to us. Maybe not as much as the right, but the left is playing along, as well. We are so damn afraid of being called bigoted, that many of us have stopped thinking and have latched on to codewords and phrases instead of being able to think through events as they happen.

I kept looking through Omar's tweets, but i could not find anything actually anti-semitic. She criticized AIPAC and politicians that treat that organization with the same reverence as the GOP has treated the NRA. Israel may be an ally, but in their battle with the Palestinians, they are the bad guys.

It ought to be okay to say that. And it ought to be okay to support politicians that want to reign Israel in, even if AIPAC speeds money on Democrats.

To be clear (because I realize my phrasing may be ambigious) the attitude I find damaging is equating criticism with the nation Isreal with anti-semitism.

I fully agree the liberal dogpile on Omar is a self-own.

thrawn82 wrote:

To be clear (because I realize my phrasing may be ambigious) the attitude I find damaging is equating criticism with the nation Isreal with anti-semitism.

I fully agree the liberal dogpile on Omar is a self-own.

I did misunderstand what you were calling damaging. Thanks for the clarification!

Exactly — criticizing Israel is NOT anti-Semitic in and of itself.

And let’s be clear: the reason she was criticized so quickly by the left probably does have to do with the influence of Jewish supporters that the Dems are trying not to offend.

But this was made into a big deal and blew up so quickly because of who she is. Republican white men attacking George Soros as a moneyed-Jew trying to manipulate our country is okay, though.

This sort of blatant, base hypocrisy is the sort of thing that just burns me.

EDIT: And let me state something about my commentary:

...probably does have to do with the influence of Jewish supporters that the Dems are trying not to offend.

Here the point is that there is a powerful political interest that is associated with the state of Israel in our country. There is a significant, vocal constituency who believe we should never criticize Israel and see any criticism of Israel as a disqualifier for their political representatives. I'm sure this kind of comment could be blown out of proportion, that I'm also arguing for the existence of a shady cabal that shapes our politics. I'm not: I'm arguing there is a pro-Israel community that objects to any criticism of Israel, and I'm annoyed by it.

Not directly connected to anything today, but I'm really tired of the people who complain that the country is having problems when, from where I'm sitting, the only major problems that actually exist are the ones that are directly being caused by the people complaining about the state of the country.

There's a crisis on the border: children are being ripped from their families as part of an ongoing, government-sanctioned campaign of genocide designed to discourage immigration from anyone who isn't white. There's multiple ecological crisis that have already caused permanent damage, where we need to act to mitigate the damage enough for human civilization to survive. Workers are being laid off with effectively no warning at the exact same moment as the company executives are in an investor meeting praising themselves for how their profits last year exceeded all expectations. We're currently killing civilians and our own soldiers for multiple increasingly nebulous military missions that have, on the whole, made the world more dangerous. Schoolchildren write messages on their bodies so their parents have one last message if a shooter kills them at school.

And for most of these, we can't even see eye-to-eye on what the problem is right now.

Hey gang, as a Jewish member of the forum, the glee I'm seeing in your pushback against the pushback is kinda terrifying. Yes, AIPAC is a terrible organization, and Israel is an apartheid state. However, Ilhan herself acknowledged that her language touched on pervasive stereotypes in her apology. Can you take a lesson from that apology and maybe step back a bit here?

Tanglebones wrote:

Hey gang, as a Jewish member of the forum, the glee I'm seeing in your pushback against the pushback is kinda terrifying. Yes, AIPAC is a terrible organization, and Israel is an apartheid state. However, Ilhan herself acknowledged that her language touched on pervasive stereotypes in her apology. Can you take a lesson from that apology and maybe step back a bit here?

Yeah, that’s why I tried to explain my meaning in my post, but I think I made it worse, and I apologize. I’m going to leave it for posterity and so people can properly criticize as warranted.

I think the issue for me is this is happening in the context of the anti-boycotting laws that are popping up left and right, with states saying no contractors may participate in what amounts to any criticisms of Israel, and there are discussions of laws with criminal penalties for protesting against Israel and its treatment of Palestinians. This is fundamentally at odds with my view of the First Amendment, but we seem to be heading down this path with too-little objection.

For me my stance on this discussion is shaped not by glee, but deeply felt anger that our politics is to not criticize Israel or even allow criticism of Israel in the public forum. And by a deep objection to the anti-Muslim thread that has run through our country for too long.

As someone who is not Jewish, I also do not personally feel Israel, it’s behavior, and it’s current right-leaning government defines Judaism.

However, I’m happy to be educated.

But Tangle, you're a good Jew. It's okay to be anti-semitic towards bad Jews, isn't it?

#onlyotherbadothers

#hatersgonnahate

BadKen wrote:

But Tangle, you're a good Jew. It's okay to be anti-semitic towards bad Jews, isn't it?

#onlyotherbadothers

Yeah, I know you're making a joke, but that sh*t is legitimately making my blood run cold right now.

Yeah, sorry about that. It seems to happen a lot, everywhere. People get whipped into a frenzy, polarized, and lose sight of how picking a side affects others.

Nevermind

Jayhawker, I think that the issue is more that the statement is a bit too clever for its own good. "All about the benjamins" implies more than just money in this case.

I have plenty of issues with the government of Israel.

I think there are definitely important criticisms to be made of how that government exerts a disproportionate influence on US foreign policy.

Representative Ilhan's statement didn't read to me as egregious.

But that is definitely informed by my privilege - and wwhen a friend who is part of a marginalized community (one which is under increasing levels of threat), tells me that he's uncomfortable about pushback happening in the wake of Representative Ilhan's apology, I want to take that as an opportunity to listen.

The Republicans who were calling for the apology (or her resignation) are, I have no doubt, acting in bad faith.

But I don't think that means that her apology is the problem here.

This post isn't directed at anyone specific. This is just a nice teachable moment.

Tanglebones wrote:

Hey gang, as a Jewish member of the forum, the glee I'm seeing in your pushback against the pushback is kinda terrifying. Yes, AIPAC is a terrible organization, and Israel is an apartheid state. However, Ilhan herself acknowledged that her language touched on pervasive stereotypes in her apology. Can you take a lesson from that apology and maybe step back a bit here?

We've talked about this a lot in the feminism thread and elsewhere, but I want to point out: this is one of those moments when someone from a marginalized group has told you that the conversation is offensive. Please remember to listen and reflect and respect what he's said.

Stop a moment, try to see what he's saying, and set aside the urge to be right or to correct what he's feeling. This might be a good opportunity to step away and maybe do some reading on anti-Semitism and think about how this conversation could have reflected those stereotypes.

Nevermind

Jayhawker...

My wife is Muslim, and I think I'm reasonably well acquainted with some of the challenges and bigotry she faces.

I am asking you to perhaps dial down the rhetoric here a tad.

Jayhawker wrote:

Screw the Muslims then? Because white America just told a black Muslim woman to check herself.

Maybe we need to remove one of the Stans on the masthead.

That's not what anyone said. And perhaps you should consider that you are now white America telling a Jewish guy to check himself because you didn't like what he had to say, either.

I respect and admire your willingness to stand up for marginalized groups, and I consider you a friend, but you're doggedly determined to not listen here when a minority person is saying they're hurt and offended. I don't understand why. Is it the partisan element? Is there something else going on?