Yakuza Games Catch All

I made it to chapter 8 last Saturday, and I’m just loving this game. So much style and emotions being portrayed, so effectively.

garion333 wrote:

You aren't really meant to quick switch up styles during combat all that much in my experience. It's not really designed for it

I disagree a bit with this. Some enemies / groups are more suited to one style over another, and switching mid fight can help. That said, for the most part I’ve been sticking with one favorite style, and switching only when it’s clearly not working well — mostly you can just power your way through any fight, using any style.

There's also an unlock where you can switch styles after a throw or heat move or something(I've been on a whirlwind of Yakuza and just finished 6 after going through most of 0, Kiwami, and Kiwami 2)

merphle wrote:

I made it to chapter 8 last Saturday, and I’m just loving this game. So much style and emotions being portrayed, so effectively.

garion333 wrote:

You aren't really meant to quick switch up styles during combat all that much in my experience. It's not really designed for it

I disagree a bit with this. Some enemies / groups are more suited to one style over another, and switching mid fight can help. That said, for the most part I’ve been sticking with one favorite style, and switching only when it’s clearly not working well — mostly you can just power your way through any fight, using any style.

Oh, I agree, I meant the quick switch between the styles back and forth and back and forth, string together attacks. Not really like that in the game. You have mixed enemy groups, but the animation when switching between styles is there as a pause of sorts (perhaps game engine related).

While my feelings for this game are largely positive, they're still roughly mixed. There's a huge gap between the expertise and production values of the pre-rendered cut-scenes and ...well, everything else. It's very rare for me to play a game and think "I wish this were just a TV show or movie", because the interactive element is often what sets it apart from those other mediums. However, it's the writing and main story that really drive me to keep playing this game. Whenever I move the main story along, I feel compelled to keep playing. If I only do side quests and such for that evening, I feel like playing something else the next night.

It's not because those other elements are bad, either, because those other elements also help highlight why this can't work as a TV show or film. Firstly, this sort of story works better with the realistic graphics than if it were to be in anime. I normally don't say that about things, but it helps keep things grounded enough in reality. At the same time, it's because it's a video game that so many crazy camera angles and excellent cinematography can be implemented. There's no way this story would be told as well if it weren't a video game.

I also love how elements of the world have a similar DNA to Way of the Samurai. Watching out for Mr. Shakedown reminds me of spotting bounty hunters in Way of the Samurai 3, and its focus on a smaller world with a lot of choice. Yakuza isn't about choice, but it certainly wants that small world to feel as lived in as possible. I've done plenty of side missions now, and it's almost like the absurdity of them doesn't land until I'm thinking about them later. "Visa, not pizza!" "I need you to pretend to be my boyfriend." "Wait, so if taxes go up, does that mean...?!" It's amazing just how much life has been breathed into this game.

I just can't help but wonder if there's too much, or too much that can distract from the best content, which is the main story. I just finished Chapter 7, which means I've started the Cabaret Management. While I can certainly avoid the mini-game, it's also clear that if I want to upgrade my combat capabilities, I need to engage in these business portions of the game to collect enough dough.

Speaking of, I find the combat adequate, but there's no single combat style I really like all that much. They each have too many flaws, though I largely just stick with which one has the easiest Heat attack to execute. Brawler for Kiryu, and... the one with the bat for Majima. The combat system is better and more varied than I expected, but I still feel like it's lacking that extra balancing and polish of so many other action games out there. It's not that I want it to play like those games, just that I wish I could be encouraged to do more than button mash, even with styles clearly not intended for button mashing.

There are also just way, way too many random punks trying to fight on the streets, and while I understand that is also worked into the business mini-games, it feels absurd to have to run into or from so many guys so often.

The end result so far is that I really love the game's story and will want to move onto Kiwami, but I also will be in no rush to move onto Kiwami once I'm finished with 0.

Do you think it works better as a game to dip in and out of, more of a background comfort game, than something to mainline? I was surprised the first time I heard someone say you can spend 100 hours in each game in the series.

You nailed my feelings for the game precisely. I love sitting down to play for like 8 straight hours on a lazy Saturday, but I find it difficult to actually make that decision to start playing. The cutscenes and main story are so goddamned enthralling, and everything else is so goddamned emotionless by comparison.

I’ve already preordered Kiwami for PC, but having still not yet finished Zero, I’m certainly in no hurry to get to it.

beanman101283 wrote:

Do you think it works better as a game to dip in and out of, more of a background comfort game, than something to mainline? I was surprised the first time I heard someone say you can spend 100 hours in each game in the series.

It might. I'll probably take a break today and tomorrow as Resident Evil 2 is getting some free DLC today. The problem with that, however, is that I feel like I'm already stepping in and out every other night, as I'll just push the story one night and then dabble in new side quests the next. That story begs to be played, but everything else feels like "Just come on back and dabble when you're ready". Heck, I'm surprised SEGA hasn't taken the cabaret and real estate clubs and turned them into mobile games yet (in America (because it wouldn't surprise me if they were in Japan)).

That said, I'm already hopping between it and World of Final Fantasy, so it's not like I don't have some variety going.

merphle wrote:

The cutscenes and main story are so goddamned enthralling, and everything else is so goddamned emotionless by comparison.

I wouldn't be that harsh by comparison. One of my favorite things is seeing Kiryu witness a new fighting style and have that zoom-in with him shouting "That's rad!" It's just that the game is limited because it's still effectively running on PS3 tech, or so it feels. It does the game no favors, but at the same time, these side missions are certainly more inspired than your typical side quest in... well, anything. AAA games lack imagination with their side quests, whereas here each side mission really is its own story, and they don't always rely on the same kind of content. While I'm usually fighting thugs at some point, it's not present in every side mission available. Some of them are just conversations, and even have surprisingly unique assets. I mean, in one mission, you're just helping someone complete a crossword puzzle. That's it. No combat, just crossword.

But while I'd say it's exceptional for a "stuff-to-do simulator", as I once dubbed Bethesda's open-world RPG's, I'm just... not as drawn to "stuff-to-do simulators" when there's a central story to be drawn into.

I'm basically just sort of divided, because part of me wishes it was a linear, 10-16 hour game whose excellent story I could revisit over and over and over again, but if you did that then there's so much about these games that are unique and one-of-a-kind that would be lost.

I guess the best way I can put it is that I understand the franchise's fandom and why it leaves such a strong impression on many. I don't think I'll be as deep a fan, but I'll certainly be trying to make time to play all seven. Similarly, Judgment is a Day One Perch.

Chapter 10. Damn this story is so hot.

Also I finally figured out what I was doing wrong with Kiryu's business plan, and am now raking in the dough.

I just completed Chapter 11 last night myself. I'm getting a bit better with Majima's "Thug" combat style, which means I'm largely relying on his and Kiryu's basic combat abilities largely so I can take over the greater variety of Heat finishers.

And yeah, I'm getting a better hang of those side missions myself. Kiryu's nearly done with the Leisure King area, and I'm curious if I'm actually going to try and 100% that mini-game before I beat the main story. It's also amazing how much faster you can make cash via that mini-game as Kiryu than you can Majima's cabaret club, at least at first. That in particular is a lot more enjoyable than I thought.

I looked it up, and while there is a free-to-play Yakuza phone/pc game available, it's... a card game, evidently? Rather than just taking the cabaret club and turning it into a phone game. Which... this is like "Why did no one think to make an RTS on the Wii?" levels of obvious and oblivious. You'd think it would be such an obvious idea, and yet no one executes on it. Also, the game evidently is the first to take place after Yakuza 6 with a new protagonist, and... lemme tell ya, just by looking at him, that boy's no Kiryu.

We'll see. I mean, I have... six more games to go after this one, and I'm not about to be marathoning 'em one after the next. Still, it's weird to consider Yakuza 0 is a prequel story. Typically prequel stories run into a whole gamut of issues considering they "have" to explain certain things. It doesn't feel like that, though. It feels like this really could be a first game.

I'm curious to see how it'll feel once I hit Kiwami.

I finished off the Leisure King area last night, before completing chapter 10, and just now finished the Mars area. I agree that the money comes in for Kiryu much faster, but it's mostly just a waiting game. I didn't like the Club Sunshine minigame at first, but it's starting to grow on me -- and at least it's an active activity.

Also, this game makes me feel really dirty and/or sleazy, for a whole host of reasons.

Completed chapters 13 and 14 last night, and I'm really amazed at the quality of the narrative they've written. This feels too good to be a prequel, as most prequel stories are too focused on explaining away backstory that doesn't need to be explained. Granted, I think this might be one of the first times I've absorbed a prequel before the actual first entry in a series. The only other thing I can think of is reading First King of Shannara before Sword of Shannara, and boy howdy was First King not to my liking.

Regardless, I knew the two character stories would intertwine, but not like this. I'm pretty fired up to keep on playing. I'm going to try to avoid spoilers, but I'll spoiler-tag anyway just in case.

Spoiler:

Boy howdy are they more brutal than Game of Thrones. "Oh, you liked that character, eh? Whoops, looks like they're dead. Look at all them bullets. And wouldn't you know it? This jerk that you've wanted to kill the whole game is the reason why!" Quit toying with my emotions, game!

My March PS4 game schedule is packed, but April is still looking empty so I'm hoping I get to jump into Yakuza Kiwami around then. Should I expect Kiwami to have similar kinds of activities and side quests? Or, being originally a PS2 game, is it going to be a smaller experience than 0? Even if it's narratively a prequel, Yakuza 0 is the sixth game in the franchise and thus I wouldn't be surprised if jumping into Kiwami is technically a step backwards in some regards.

I also completed a few chapters these last couple of days. I think I’m about halfway through 15 now, and I concur with your assessments. Really enjoying the story they’ve produced.

Also I felt like a total badass blowing through all the riffraff in the Inn. It wasn’t even a close fight, up until the final boss.

Beat it tonight. Didn't expect to, but I just had to keep pushing on with the story. It ended differently than I expected! And isn't that the best kind of ending? I created a separate save so I can go back and see what happens with a completionist run of Real Estate and Cabaret Club missions, but otherwise I think I'm largely satisfied. I'll have more to discuss tomorrow, as it wasn't until near the end I began to get a better handle on boss fight strategies (I chugged so many Staminas and Toughness in those last few chapters...), but for now I just have one comment.

Spoiler:

I feel like Majima suffered the most from this being a prequel. Like, if you've been with the series for a while, that final "Kiryu-chan!" probably means a lot, and I can already guess based on the "Where are they now?" title cards how Majima's largely a rival or thorn in Kiryu's side. But that's kind of the issue. The Majima we get in this game doesn't seem like his emotional journey should end where it does. I kind of get it, as the dude's been manipulated and lied to one way and back, but rather than turn into, say, Delita from Final Fantasy Tactics, he becomes... I dunno. I really dunno what to make of the mental state of Majima at the end of this game.

I'm also frustrated that Majima wasn't the one to kill Sagawa.

Otherwise, yeah, I'm a Yakuza fan now. Just gotta play the next six games in line. How long did this one take me? 38-ish hours for 20% completion rating... hrm...

Good game. Enjoyable story with, like, themes and stuff. A++ would recommend. Wicked soundtrack, too.

Finished and started the remake of yakuza 1. These games would be great if it wasn't for the rampant misogyny.

ccesarano wrote:

My March PS4 game schedule is packed, but April is still looking empty so I'm hoping I get to jump into Yakuza Kiwami around then. Should I expect Kiwami to have similar kinds of activities and side quests? Or, being originally a PS2 game, is it going to be a smaller experience than 0? Even if it's narratively a prequel, Yakuza 0 is the sixth game in the franchise and thus I wouldn't be surprised if jumping into Kiwami is technically a step backwards in some regards.

Kiwami is a bit of a step back in terms of minigames and stuff. The story isn't quite as good, but it's still pulpy good gangster stuff. Yakuza 2 is where they hit their stride.

Alright, so thoughts on the combat.

I feel like this game's combat offers a lot of options and can be really good for someone that figures it out. I never quite figured it out. It wasn't until the final few chapters I decided to see what "throw" even did, and it turns out it straight up flattens someone on their back after doing some decent damage. This meant I now had a better strategy for bosses, as their own Infinite Heat manages to keep them on their feet.

I'd say that's my frustration with the game. The bosses aren't necessarily about learning attack patterns or understanding the opponent's fighting style. It's just making the boss more and more invulnerable and thus limiting your own options. The closer the boss is to being defeated, the less likely any grapple ability will work. So you gotta figure out what will work with the tools at your disposal, even though most fights in the game don't really require you to think so hard about them.

I would have preferred more one-on-one fights so I might be encouraged to explore the other fighting styles more. As it was, most fights benefited from just sticking to Brawler or Thug, as it allowed you to make use of tools around you or wipe foes out with environmental heat explosions. The best by far being to grab someone and use your heat up against a railing of sorts, knocking someone with full health off the stage completely.

That also illustrates how robust the game's combat can be, though. I largely stuck to one combat type and ultimately found each confrontation interesting nonetheless. I was always keeping an eye out on the environment and determining my targets based on their weaponry. I'd say the only time it became a problem was in the final location, where you're stuck in a narrow corridor with three or four melee guys up in your grill and two dudes with pistols at the far end taking devastating pot-shots. If there's an intended strategy it's not clear and only applies to specific skill sets.

Despite these gripes, I now feel like I want to gain a better understanding of the combat. I may just go ahead and do a bunch of the side content anyway so I can unlock more abilities and test some stuff out. That, or I may just go and play Kiwami anyway, even though I don't know if I can beat it before DMC5 releases.

Really good game.

I just wrapped up Yakuza 0 as well. The main story, anyway, with a mere 37% total completion. Man, it got awful dusty in here during the last couple of chapters and the epilogue. What a fantastic storytelling job that was!

ccesarano wrote:

I'd say the only time it became a problem was in the final location, where you're stuck in a narrow corridor with three or four melee guys up in your grill and two dudes with pistols at the far end taking devastating pot-shots. If there's an intended strategy it's not clear and only applies to specific skill sets.

Spoiler:

Switch to rush mode, run at the pistol dudes and take them out, first thing. They have very little health, so they go down in one or two sets of swings. Also your A-button movement dodge can let you avoid getting hit by a bullet.

There was definitely a rock-paper-scissors element to combat, and switching between the three fighting styles during combat absolutely was beneficial for some fights.

Then clearly I suck at this particular game. Which is no surprise. I have a feeling my largely ignoring animal style was a big mistake.

Oh! I did learn, however, that Kiryu's brawler counter-attack is good if you get hit early in a boss' combo. Just don't let them finish that combo or Kiryu will be knocked on his face.

Yeah, I hated the Breaker style for almost all of the game, but then I tried it out in the last couple of chapters, and oh man, is it effective in dealing with loads of trash mobs. Please forgive my use of the term "trash mobs" in reference to human video game characters.

And I never found the Beast trainer, so I never got the more powerful upgrades... and yet still, it was crucial for the boss fights.

Amusing spoilery dialogue from the very end of the game:

Spoiler:

Paraphrased slightly: "As long as I have money and access to [this guy], I can have anyone I want killed. That's real power."

My response to that was: "Oh yeah? Well as long as I have this inventory full of sushi platters and energy drinks, you can't kill me!"

I started Kiwami today against what might be better judgment, but it seems like it's an overall smaller game so whatever. I've already finished five chapters.

It's clearly the same engine as 0, but the differences in boosting abilities and other small touches help it keep from feeling too much like more of the same. Perhaps what's most interesting is Kiwami actually encourages the player to try different fighting styles by giving bosses color-coded auras at a specific moment. They basically stand there and recover health, and if you have enough Heat generated you can unleash a really, really strong attack using the fighting style of the given coding. Between that and my decision to experiment a bit more, I've actually been having more success with a lot of the fights in Kiwami... though it's also a bit more challenging in its own right, still.

In regards to narrative, though, 0 actually does a surprisingly good job of... I dunno about setting the stage, but introducing the world of Yakuza without feeling like a pointless story. It's a self-contained narrative that effectively introduces you to each of the individual players that will otherwise have too little screen time to get the same feel for. This is especially true with Nishiki. As such, it's really easy to recommend Yakuza 0 to people as a starting point, and I understand why it has frequently been to new players.

The only downside is I'm still pretty convinced that 0 does a bad job of developing Majima into his present character. It really does feel like too big of a jump. It's a great story, and maybe I'll need to replay it again knowing where Majima ends up, but I feel like a few changes might have helped the evolution work better.

He's a real pain in the butt to fight in story missions, too. Cripes.

I also started Kiwami a few days ago, but have only put a chapter or two of work into it. Enough to know that it feels like more of Zero, which I'm perfectly content with, and happy to explore further at a later time (after clearing some other things off my pile).

Majima was easily my favorite character in Zero. It saddened me to see how broken he had become by the end of Zero, though I understand it was necessary to lead into his existing character in Kiwami. It's jarring, for sure.

So far, Kiwami feels like a seriously inferior game to 0. The fighting feels oddly less precise.

The story seems like it's close to par with 0, but I'm probably not going to spend a whole lot of time pushing through this one.

I dunno if it's less precise, but there is something a little different about it, though I cannot quite put my finger on it. I feel like grabs are slightly different, but otherwise it feels like the same combat from Zero to me.

Some of the boss fight designs are definitely less well considered. I just finished the Majima fight in the batting cage, and the strategy was basically to absorb damage and drink health restorers until you outlasted him.

The random mook battles run kind of the same. But now that I'm thinking about it, it feels like the timing or the snap to opponent is a little bit off. Maybe the field of vision is a little closer. Not sure.

And god help me, I miss the cabaret management.

merphle wrote:

Majima was easily my favorite character in Zero. It saddened me to see how broken he had become by the end of Zero, though I understand it was necessary to lead into his existing character in Kiwami. It's jarring, for sure.

Yeah. There are some hints at the end of zero but now I'm playing Kiwami it's jaring how much his personality has changed.

Also is it me or is this yet another example of how Japan seems to tolerate making fun of trans people far more than the west these days?

Apparently they've cut some transphobic content from the Yakuza 3 remaster (currently only available in Japan) so that's some progress I suppose?

Yeah, Sega is coming around.

Edit: Gives me hope for Japan. Atlus needs to get their sh*t together.

kazooka wrote:

Some of the boss fight designs are definitely less well considered. I just finished the Majima fight in the batting cage, and the strategy was basically to absorb damage and drink health restorers until you outlasted him.

I had the same issue and realized in the next chapter I forgot to put all my defensive equipment back on following the coliseum. I kind of wish they automatically removed and re-equipped that stuff for you rather than making you do it, because yeah, that would have made the Majima fight a lot more manageable.

ccesarano wrote:
kazooka wrote:

Some of the boss fight designs are definitely less well considered. I just finished the Majima fight in the batting cage, and the strategy was basically to absorb damage and drink health restorers until you outlasted him.

I had the same issue and realized in the next chapter I forgot to put all my defensive equipment back on following the coliseum. I kind of wish they automatically removed and re-equipped that stuff for you rather than making you do it, because yeah, that would have made the Majima fight a lot more manageable.

Majima fights are generally bad imho. I get the feeling they're meant to be entertaining and silly first and foremost.