NFL 2018: Wild Card Weekend

Tampa expected to announce the hiring of Bruce Arians as their new head coach tomorrow.

Tampa expected to announce the hiring of Jon Gruden as their new head coach tomorrow.

FIXED :0

fangblackbone wrote:
Tampa expected to announce the hiring of Jon Gruden as their new head coach tomorrow.

FIXED :0

How many first round picks did Tampa trade?

With the Chargers playing 5DB's all night, I just don't understand why Harbs went to passing on first down. It just feels like they gave up on the inside run way too early. If someone shows you a 5DB set on first down, you hit him with a counter gap and truck those MF'ers with 300 pound pulling guards and hurry the f up so they can't get their personnel off the field. You don't try to throw on that. Certainly not with a rookie passer.

Question: if Nick Foles wins another Super Bowl... would you as Philly have to seriously consider making him the starter permanently, and moving Wentz in a trade?

I mean, last time he was OK-ish in 3 regular season starts and then got hot in the postseason. This time, he was much better for 5 regular season starts, and yeah Wild Card weekend wasn't his best solo performance, but Bears D is brutal, and he still got it done in crunch time...

At what point do you consider Foles the guy? Can you really win 2 rings with him and then let him go? Is it only if he wins that second ring that you consider it, or would an overall strong postseason that comes up short still qualify? Or is Wentz too good to even consider it? What happens if you let Foles go and then Wentz never gets it done in the postseason?

In a QB draft that is looking thin, Wentz would command a king's ransom. How much would a team like Denver pay for him? Or Jacksonville, with a whole front office who somehow survived for another year, and whose jobs depend on getting the QB position right and doing so right now?

Foles was on the verge of retiring from the NFL just two years ago because playing for Jeff Fischer ruined him. When Andy Reid talked him out of it, it led to some really strong performances when Alex Smith was out, and got him back to Philly to back-up their new rookie.

And then he won the Super Bowl MVP. It's an insane story. It's why the Eagles are the the NFC team I am rooting for. He damn near let sports media and fans define him. Glad that the coaches that knew him were able to rescue his career.

He's only 29. If I'm Philly, I strongly consider this. They can pull off what Gruden did with Mack, but with a team that is ready to win now. Reloading with as many draft picks as possible is the ticket in the NFL, because that's how you stay under the cap with talent. The more picks you have, the better your odds are of finding contributors on rookie contracts.

But, please, not Denver. John Elway is a crap GM, so don't hand him a QB everyone else vetted. Let him find the next Case Keenum, Brock Osweiler, or Paxton Lynch. And he is going to run off the next coach he hires, too. The Broncos are on the verge of several years in the wilderness. Don't bail out Elway, and more importantly, don't send Wentz into a sh*tshow.

Paleocon wrote:

With the Chargers playing 5DB's all night, I just don't understand why Harbs went to passing on first down. It just feels like they gave up on the inside run way too early. If someone shows you a 5DB set on first down, you hit him with a counter gap and truck those MF'ers with 300 pound pulling guards and hurry the f up so they can't get their personnel off the field. You don't try to throw on that. Certainly not with a rookie passer.

That wasn't working. They were using the DBs to lure Baltimore into running, and they their safeties were enough to get it done. Romo speculated that the Bolts had figured out a tell, and were dictating the plays the Ravens run by the personnel they used. So they put the DBs in knowing what runs might come, and it still limited the passing game.

The real fix would have been to put Flacco in. Suddenly they have to react the pass more, and that would have opened up the run game. On short notice, Flacco could have given them a pretty good chance to turn things around before it got too late. It would have forced the Chargers out of their defensive gameplan. but they needed to do that early in the third.

I would have still gone back to Jackson this week if they won, but spent the week correcting what the Chargers exposed.

Yeah, clearly the Chargers figured something out and the Ravens did an okay job of adjusting for the second half. A power run game would've probably made more sense than continuing the RPO's in the first half. Jackson was totally off his game for a long while.

In other news:

Packers hire Matt LaFleur

I'm a little surprised by this. Guess Aaron Rodgers likes him or something.

I could see Flacco having come in and provided a spark, but I could just as easily see it having gone the way of death by long drives that stalled into field goal attempts when they needed touchdowns.

Flacco's deep passing game falling off of a cliff is well documented. PFF's advanced stats have Flacco's deep completion % at 30.8% this year, tied for 33rd among qualifying QBs, ahead of only Ryan Tannehill, and his passer rating on those throws is only slightly better, ranking 31st, ahead of only Cam Newton, Jeff Driskel, Sam Darnold, and ... *checks notes* hmm this can't be right, Nick Mullens. (Though with only 19 attempts, Mullens barely qualified to make the table.)

Lamar's poor first 3 quarters put them in that hole, but his 4th quarter is what nearly dragged them back out. Flacco probably would have posted a better full 4 quarters on that day, but I'm not so sure he was the answer for a Ravens team once they were already deep in that hole.

*Legion* wrote:

Question: if Nick Foles wins another Super Bowl... would you as Philly have to seriously consider making him the starter permanently, and moving Wentz in a trade?

I mean, last time he was OK-ish in 3 regular season starts and then got hot in the postseason. This time, he was much better for 5 regular season starts, and yeah Wild Card weekend wasn't his best solo performance, but Bears D is brutal, and he still got it done in crunch time...

At what point do you consider Foles the guy? Can you really win 2 rings with him and then let him go? Is it only if he wins that second ring that you consider it, or would an overall strong postseason that comes up short still qualify? Or is Wentz too good to even consider it? What happens if you let Foles go and then Wentz never gets it done in the postseason?

In a QB draft that is looking thin, Wentz would command a king's ransom. How much would a team like Denver pay for him? Or Jacksonville, with a whole front office who somehow survived for another year, and whose jobs depend on getting the QB position right and doing so right now?

I think the bigger question is, if Foles wins another Super Bowl, who deserves to be in the HoF more, him or Eli Manning?

Unrelated: the Giants should consider grabbing Foles.

Chairman_Mao wrote:

I think the bigger question is, if Foles wins another Super Bowl, who deserves to be in the HoF more, him or Eli Manning?

Neither. Next question.

Unrelated: the Giants should consider grabbing Foles.

If he's on the market, I think a number of teams should consider him. At the same time, I think teams really need to think about offensive fit with Foles.

*Legion* wrote:
Unrelated: the Giants should consider grabbing Foles.

If he's on the market, I think a number of teams should consider him. At the same time, I think teams really need to think about offensive fit with Foles.

IMAGE(https://nbcprofootballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2015/11/498316254-e1448392691475.jpg)

So, yeah, Ravens came at the Chargers with basically the same gameplan they used against them the first game they played.

Afforded a second look at film of the Ravens in three weeks, Chargers defenders saw that Baltimore’s offense, though complex, seemed to change little week to week. They solved parts of it and picked up clues, like left tackle Ronnie Stanley’s feet. When Stanley set them about even, it was a run, and when he set his left foot further back, it was a pass “almost 100 percent” of the time.

And when the Ravens ran out of the pistol formation, a tight end in the backfield on the same side as the tight end at the line of scrimmage almost always meant one of two running plays: “counter” or “cut belly.” On Sunday, players said it was as if Baltimore changed nothing from the first game.

Jayhawker never disappoints.

Rat Boy wrote:

Jayhawker never disappoints.

Tell that to the men's feminism thread, heyoooo sorry couldn't help it.

Four interesting but not very fun games (until the very end in one case). Next time I complain about the lack of defense in the NFL, make sure to remind me of WC Weekend.

At least we didn't get any real blowouts. There's usually a WC game that's a complete turd. Not so much this year.

Enix wrote:

Four interesting but not very fun games (until the very end in one case). Next time I complain about the lack of defense in the NFL, make sure to remind me of WC Weekend.

At least we didn't get any real blowouts. There's usually a WC game that's a complete turd. Not so much this year.

No WC game this year was as pathetic as last year's Bortles/Tyrod anti-shootout. (Reverse shootout? Shoot-in?)

Colts were in control, 21-0 and never in danger. 3 of 4 close games

*Legion* wrote:
Chairman_Mao wrote:

I think the bigger question is, if Foles wins another Super Bowl, who deserves to be in the HoF more, him or Eli Manning?

Neither. Next question.

Thatsthejoke.jpg

*Legion* wrote:

Question: if Nick Foles wins another Super Bowl... would you as Philly have to seriously consider making him the starter permanently, and moving Wentz in a trade?

I mean, last time he was OK-ish in 3 regular season starts and then got hot in the postseason. This time, he was much better for 5 regular season starts, and yeah Wild Card weekend wasn't his best solo performance, but Bears D is brutal, and he still got it done in crunch time...

At what point do you consider Foles the guy? Can you really win 2 rings with him and then let him go? Is it only if he wins that second ring that you consider it, or would an overall strong postseason that comes up short still qualify? Or is Wentz too good to even consider it? What happens if you let Foles go and then Wentz never gets it done in the postseason?

In a QB draft that is looking thin, Wentz would command a king's ransom. How much would a team like Denver pay for him? Or Jacksonville, with a whole front office who somehow survived for another year, and whose jobs depend on getting the QB position right and doing so right now?

Keep in mind I don't know about all the meta-game stuff you guys do and am just learning it as I follow these threads. However, from what I've gathered on Sports Radio in the area and other Eagles chatter, the majority of people talking about a "quarterback controversy" or the potential of Foles to replace Wentz as the starter is from the media, who are likely trying to generate ratings. Very little is from the fans themselves, and usually when you have people call in it's to say "Shut up, it's still Wentz even if Foles takes it all the way again." The logic seems to be that you don't have as many good years with Foles as you're going to have with Wentz, he just needs to stop taking so many risks that could result in injury.

The difference between this year and last is that the Eagles were already doing well before Foles stepped in, and at first everyone believed Foles was going to kill the chances at an Eagles Super Bowl. Because of that Super Bowl win a couple of Eagles coaches graduated to other teams and head coaching positions, which is going to impact how the team plays. If you ask me, the biggest problem with the Eagles this year was the defense and the fact that we really need some better offensive line-men. Seumalo is doing a better job right now than Vaitai ever did consistently, but neither guy is really all that great, they both have a tendency to swing open like a door and just watch guys run past, and that ultimately leaves Peters who is getting closer to retirement. Be it Wentz or Foles, both don't have the time they need to make a decision.

You'll also find a lot of fans blaming the refs in the Titans game, at least one of the Cowboys games if not both, and one more game. Evidently there were four games this season Eagles lost to the Refs, if you believe some of the die-hards around here. Regardless, the problem was not Wentz, and Foles is not saving the team. I think Doug has gone to his assistant coaches and tried to figure new things out, and I think Foles had an advantage because Pederson knows that both of his quarterbacks are very different guys and therefore you use different types of plays. I can't say for certain, but I'd imagine that's going to make a lot of the tapes from earlier games in the year not as useful as they might otherwise be.

I think it's more likely Foles gets traded, but not until there's a more reliable back-up than Sudfeld or Sudfeld gets more experience. Right now Eagles have an ideal situation where both primary and back-up quarterbacks are talented, which is a nice security blanket to have (and has proven to be).

The only way I see Foles becoming the primary quarterback and Wentz getting traded or demoted to secondary is if a phone call comes in from the top. From what I've heard of Roseman, I don't anticipate that happening.

Of course, I cannot speak as a real authority on the matter. This is just my gut feeling based on the season and what other fans have been saying on talk radio and sometimes the social medias. However, there are also fans that I've seen mention that maybe we should swap who the starting quarterback is, but I think that's the minority. Wentz is younger, he has more years in him, and it's more likely he can only get better than worse (as long as he stops putting himself in scenarios where he can get injured). A lot of fans believe Wentz is the guy you want because it's better for the long-term.

*Legion* wrote:
Rat Boy wrote:

Jayhawker never disappoints.

Tell that to the men's feminism thread, heyoooo sorry couldn't help it.

The funny part is that I showed my wife Ratboy’s comment so I could gloat, only for her to say, “Tell Ratboy, uh, yes, yes he does.”

She didn’t even give me a heyoooo...

ccesarano wrote:

The only way I see Foles becoming the primary quarterback and Wentz getting traded or demoted to secondary is if a phone call comes in from the top. From what I've heard of Roseman, I don't anticipate that happening.

This is probably a fair evaluation of how it will go down. On part of personnel moves like these is that it often comes down to stuff fans and most media won't be aware of. Who does the coach and teammates feel most comfortable with? Does one of them have some annoying habits? Does Wentz take his rehab like it is a full-time job? Will trading one of them cause more lower room division than the other? Also, what will the fan fallout be?

Once you have coach and staff you trust, you kind of just have to fill in the blanks as to why they make some decisions like this, and trust them.

The Chiefs faded Marcus Peters to the Rams for a third round pick, and it just made no sense. The first assumption is that he must be 10 times as annoying in the locker room than he even is on the field. But now, after the season, the Chiefs probably saw that he was not in shape, not focused, hurt, or something, because he went from being one of the top CBs in the NFL to flat out horrible, and not even starter quality, let alone Pro Bowl material.

As a fan, the best bet is to just let it play out and not get to overly invested in one over the other. Often, what seems obvious to us is really something that we don't have all the information on.

In this case, everything about Wentz is so positive, except for two season ending injuries in his only two seasons, that I don't think the Eagles can rule out trading him until they see what some desperate GM is willing to offer. A couple of first round picks goes a long ways in keeping the team reloaded, as long as you have a good portion at QB already.

What the Eagles have is a great problem.

ccesarano wrote:

However, from what I've gathered on Sports Radio in the area and other Eagles chatter, the majority of people talking about a "quarterback controversy" or the potential of Foles to replace Wentz as the starter is from the media, who are likely trying to generate ratings.

I can tell you this: if Foles wins the Super Bowl again, there will be some very serious discussions on this topic in that building.

The logic seems to be that you don't have as many good years with Foles as you're going to have with Wentz, he just needs to stop taking so many risks that could result in injury.

In 3 of his last 4 seasons of football, Wentz has been injured and could not complete the season. He missed 8 games of his senior season, and he was only a 2 year starter. At some point, this is who you are. There are real concerns that his back injury is chronic.

The risks here should not be diminished. The possibility that Wentz cannot physically hold up well enough to be a successful long term professional is real. He could be on the Chad Pennington career path.

This season was supposed to be the year where Wentz got healthy and gave the team the confidence to move on into a post-Foles world. Instead, he goes down again with a new and even potentially scarier injury.

I think it's more likely Foles gets traded, but not until there's a more reliable back-up than Sudfeld or Sudfeld gets more experience.

They don't have that option. Foles will void his 2019 option year and become a free agent. Philly can trade him before free agency opens, or franchise tag him to give them more time in the offseason to trade him, but they're not going to have a $20+ million backup QB on the roster. The only way Nick Foles is in an Eagles uniform next year is if he's the starter. (And the longer they wait, the fewer potential trade partners there are.)

As things stand right now, the choice is still to keep Wentz and move Foles in March. But the deeper Foles takes them into the postseason, the fuzzier that call is gonna get.

Isn't the rest of the Philly roster decimated?

NO probably roles them regardless. Better question is does Foles actually even need to win another SB to get more recognition?

He should be a starting QB next year.

At this point it’s a no win scenario with Foles for the Eagles. Trade/Release/FA Foles and you get second guessed unless Wentz wins at least one SB.

Keep both (some miracle Foles take a backup QB contract) and Wentz looks over his shoulder always worried about losing his job. Plus pressure to always perform at a higher level.

Trade Wentz and run the risk that Foles revert to a mediocre starter that doesn’t have the physical gifts to make plays where there wasn’t. Back to pre Wentz hoping you draft a good QB.

I’m inclined to keep Wentz. This roster isn’t exactly stocked after this season so you may need another 2 drafts before you can compete again. Over the cap with some key veterans set to walk or retire.

They look good at TE though lol.

Omg, Foles salary balloons to $20 mil next year? Holy hell. Shame he'll end up being cut and not cost against the Eagles' compensatory picks because Foles is likely to get starter money once again.

Wentz isn't leaving Philly anytime soon. Talk about giving Foles the reigns and trading away Wentz? Not gonna happen unless the Eagles know something about his health that no one else does.

TheGameguru wrote:

They look good at TE though lol.

Absolutely, they've got some damn fine TE scouting going on.

TheGameguru wrote:

Keep both (some miracle Foles take a backup QB contract) and Wentz looks over his shoulder always worried about losing his job. Plus pressure to always perform at a higher level.

This isn't always a bad thing. Too many times we have seen QBs level of play dip after getting a fat paycheck with long term stability.

garion333 wrote:

Omg, Foles salary balloons to $20 mil next year?

Sort of. The reality is that it was a one-year deal with some contract f*ckery to push a little bit of bonus money out of 2018 so that the Eagles could defer some cap hit.

Technically the contract runs through 2021, but 2019 is a mutual option year that was never ever going to be played out, and 2020 and 2021 are automatically voiding years.

*Legion* wrote:
garion333 wrote:

Omg, Foles salary balloons to $20 mil next year?

Sort of. The reality is that it was a one-year deal with some contract f*ckery to push a little bit of bonus money out of 2018 so that the Eagles could defer some cap hit.

Technically the contract runs through 2021, but 2019 is a mutual option year that was never ever going to be played out, and 2020 and 2021 are automatically voiding years.

I get that, just can't believe it. Really sh*t themselves in the foot. Good on Foles, though we'll see how quickly the topic is dropped after this weekend or the following.

https://apple.news/AFfkp7nK2QcqVUmZv...

Take that “Americas” Team.