[Discussion] What comes next? Liber-all

American liberals and progressives now face their biggest challenge in a generation: What do we do with 4 years of a trump presidency, a republican congress, a likely conservative supreme court and most states under complete republican control?

This thread is not meant as a forum for discussing HOW or WHY democrats got destroyed in the 2016 election. It's meant for finding a way forward.

jdzappa wrote:

No worries Cheeze. I know get where you were coming from and realize you weren’t trying to be flippant. This problem does hit home for a lot of folks in that part of the country. My cousin went back just a month ago to help bury one of our mutual classmates after an OD. The dude had just turned 40.

That's so profoundly sad. We're becoming numb to it, but it shouldn't be that common for people that young to die from something that's preventable.

People can stay on Suboxone for years, if necessary, and with proper counseling and supervision can come out the other side. There's just no reason for any of this loss.

Speaking of loss, I’m very sorry to hear that about your mom DS.

Thanks

Sorry to hear about your mom, DS. I spent 10 years working in the social services in Idaho and we referred to it as the "f*ck you" state.

stupidhaiku wrote:

Sorry to hear about your mom, DS. I spent 10 years working in the social services in Idaho and we referred to it as the "f*ck you" state.

Still a better license-plate motto than New Hampshire's.

So... it's begun, Warren essentially declaring she's running by creating a committee as an excuse to fundraise.

Should I make a 2020 Democrats Eat Ourselves Alive-all or just use this thread?

Just in time to function as the sequel to occupy that Game of Thrones sized hole in one's heart after the final season airs.

Only, you know--in real life. : /

oilypenguin wrote:

So... it's begun, Warren essentially declaring she's running by creating a committee as an excuse to fundraise.

Should I make a 2020 Democrats Eat Ourselves Alive-all or just use this thread?

I think that particular sh*t-show is worthy of its own thread.

Great tweet from Sarah Kendzior:

https://twitter.com/sarahkendzior/st...

Advice for 2020:

1. Focus on voter suppression. It makes no difference how great your candidate is if people can't vote

2. 2019 will be tumultuous and bring unprecedented crises. Measure candidates by how well they understand the new crises and what plans they have to fix them

AOC getting after it. 70% marginal tax rates on $10mm in income.

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/...

Would a tax bracket that high actually apply to anyone? For example Jeff Bezos only has an income of $83,000. The super wealthy make their money with capital gains rather than income, so a $10 million dollar tax bracket on income is useless.

In case you might be wondering, this would impact about 16,000 people/households.

Even if you jacked it up to 70% marginal rates above $2 million it would still only impact about 150,000ish people/households (110,000 for $2 to $5 million and 26,000 for $5 to $10 million in income).

Here's to hoping AOC pushes to have capital gains treated and taxed like regular income.

Something useful in a discussion about taxes:

Really wasn't sure where to put this, but I guess this will work.

Last week, I unfollowed Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter. I've actually been impressed with her actions since she was seated in the House, and I think she is bringing smart and forceful change to how establishment Democrats operate.

But I stopped following her because she spars with Twitter trolls. Tonight, I had to go one more step and mute her, because others I follow continue to retweet and like those specific posts, where she owns the cons. She is spreading their message. I am reading the words of people I would never want to even consider reading because she can't just ignore them.

I saw Jay Smooth make this point the other day, about how these asinine trolls are getting well more than half their views and interactions from liberals that can't just ignore them. I expect way more from our representatives, and AOC's Twitter use is not much different than Trump's, other than her ability to write coherently.

But if she continues to post this much, it is going burn her hard. Not because she is bad, but because she is human. She's been a very pleasant surprise for me in terms of her work on The Hill. I don't need another tweet where she makes fun of another conservative that doesn't understand the marginal tax rate. Her replies, no matter how on the mark she is, are still fodder for the Right.

With all die respect, that's complete bullsh*t. Placating trolls never works, there have been extensive studies on the subject matter (exhibit A: Anita Sarkeesian). Ocasio-Cortez is a young woman of color in a job traditionally held by old, white men. I can relate to her 100% and I only have two of those three strikes. People are going to want her to keep quiet, to not make any waves, but that's how progress is attained. Advocating for change usually disturbs who benefit from things staying the way they are.

In that spirit, I recommend this excellent piece:
If You Don’t Like Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, I Have Some Bad News For You About Dr. Martin Luther King

Many Americans, both liberals and conservatives, are taking turns throwing daggers at Ocasio-Cortez. Former U.S. Senator and former Democratic Vice-Presidential candidate Joe Lieberman said of Ocasio-Cortez: “She just takes us back to the big-spending, big-taxing Democratic Party, and the Democratic Party is not going to succeed that way.”
When we celebrate Martin Luther King’s birthday, these and other critics of Ocasio-Cortez will be quoting him and holding him up as a role model. But the truth is, just like Ocasio-Cortez, King took a lot of flak from powerful people who opposed his radical, socialist agenda. When he was an organizer, he was not popular with Americans. In fact, his national approval ratings never exceeded 50 percent when he was alive.

And yeah, sure, maybe she'll "get burned", because she's human. But guess what? People are going to come down on her ten times as harder. Where other dudes would be excused, she'll have to fight five times as hard.

I think it’s totally ok and important to mute her on Twitter if you want. If watching her dunk on people makes you unhappy then it’s probably for the best to try and keep it out of your life.

But on the other hand she’s an incredibly important politician because she’s so good at what she’s doing. When most liberals respond they aren’t nearly as effective as she is. A big part of why the punches land so hard is that she’s a woman but she’s also just good at it. I agree with Eleima that ignoring the trolls doesn’t work. Deplatforming them works but if you can’t do that then you need to fight them and make them look weak and stupid. She’s doing the latter.

Yeah I actually go to twitter dot com and find AOC’s posts specifically because she interacts with trolls so well. I like that she’s expanding the audience of the trolls. The more non voters who see that crap, the more likely they’ll vote against it.

Hopefully anyway.

Her brand, and that of socialists in America right now, is very much on the upswing. That makes it 100% ok to get after the fools and smash them rhetorically. Why? Because the socialist side of America needs to be galvanized and see wins (even small ones like seeing a dynamic, new (in soooo many ways) leader champion their cause) that bring it together as a movement.

She is leading an insurrection against the status quo. War AOC.

Jayhawker wrote:

I expect way more from our representatives, and AOC's Twitter use is not much different than Trump's, other than her ability to write coherently.

But he won

Jayhawker wrote:

I don't need another tweet where she makes fun of another conservative that doesn't understand the marginal tax rate.

We need a million more of these until a doofus in a suit can't get on TV and pretend to be flummoxed by 70% marginal taxes on the top income bracket.

Unfollowing/muting her because you don't want to see the trolls she's fighting against is fine and healthy, but she's not just feeding the trolls when she does it.

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez responded to critics by quoting Alan Moore. Many nerds rejoiced in response.

With a link to the article, Ocasio-Cortez quoted the masked vigilante Rorschach from the sci-fi comic book series “Watchmen,” by Britain’s Alan Moore and Dave Gibbons, cheekily tweeting: “To quote Alan Moore: 'None of you understand. I’m not locked up in here with YOU. You’re locked up in here with ME.’ “
cheeze_pavilion wrote:

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez responded to critics by quoting Alan Moore. Many nerds rejoiced in response.

With a link to the article, Ocasio-Cortez quoted the masked vigilante Rorschach from the sci-fi comic book series “Watchmen,” by Britain’s Alan Moore and Dave Gibbons, cheekily tweeting: “To quote Alan Moore: 'None of you understand. I’m not locked up in here with YOU. You’re locked up in here with ME.’ “

My god. Sigged.

This one is even better -

https://twitter.com/AOC/status/10864...

Personally, I'd suggest just muting Twitter altogether.

However, I support AOC in speaking out on whatever platforms are available to her...after all, she isn't really going to have the luxury of muting anything being in the public spotlight as she is as a candidate.

Politics is not media consumption

I really don't understand the analogy you are trying to draw here.

Jayhawker wrote:

I expect way more from our representatives, and AOC's Twitter use is not much different than Trump's, other than her ability to write coherently.

Trump is a bully and a blowhard and a liar who picks fights and punches down and has trouble being coherent.
AOC hits back eloquently and challenges liars.

Unless the similarity is "sends out tweets", I legitimately don't understand how you could equate them.

I feel like Norman would make a joke right here about neither of them being from Manhattan.

The comparison of AOC to MLK and thje warning to her that being disruptive and engaging with trolls will get her burned makes me think of this: MLK got 'burned' repeatedly in his efforts to fight the status quo, which eventually led to his assassination at a hotel outside of Memphis. That doesn't mean he would have done better getting along to go along, that he shouldn't have addressed his critics directly. It means the opposite.

It bothers me that facing her critics directly instead of meekly ignoring them is characterized as "feeding the trolls"

If it;s healthier for you personally to block it, more power to you. You have to manage your own mental health. I just don't like the implication what she is doing is wrong.

edited for clarification, poor use of clever language

thrawn82 wrote:

MLK got 'burned' repeatedly in his efforts to fight the status quo, eventually suffered the ultimate burn at a hotel outside of Memphis.

This is a nuclear bad post, especially the day after MLK day.