The GWJ JRPG Club - Q1 2019 - Persona 5!

Some guidance on time management was asked for earlier so I will give some quick general tips:

  • When spending free time, focus on leveling up your social links (S-Links) first. At certain points you will hit social skill requirements and that should be a good indication of what you need to work towards.
  • Generally, you should focus on your teammates S-Links as it unlocks new powers and skills for them.
  • Remember that taking a persona matching the S-Link you go to will increase the rate at which the S-Link improves.
  • Certain activities are more effective depending on the prevailing conditions. For example, studying is more effective when it's raining.

And here are some more specific tips to P5, which I will spoiler for people who want to play blind. Should not be anything story spoiler wise inside.

Spoiler:
  • An exception to the 2nd bullet is get the Death arcana up quickly, as this is your primary shop and where you can eventually buy an accessory that will restore SP every turn in battle.
  • Once you unlock the Temperance Arcana, leveling it up can free up some extra time in your days. At max, it allows you to do things in the evening after spending the afternoon in a dungeon.
  • There are school tests throughout the year the require certain Knowledge skill benchmarks to get first place. These usually go 3, 4, 5 as the requirements. Getting first place gives the biggest rewards, but I only recall money and friendship rewards for P5.

Otherwise don't stress too much about it and enjoy the game as it rolls on.

Stress is certainly one thing I felt as I was going through Persona 3 (and may be one of the reasons I stopped playing after 15 hours). I guess the more appropriate term would be FOMO. Every time I had to pick something to do in the evening, I kept asking myself 'Is this the best use of my time?' (which, funnily enough, is a question I ask myself every time I sit down to play a videogame).

And then when it was time to fuse personas, I was having a similar issue: 'Is this the optimal combination? How screwed am I if I fuse this with this?'.

I don't know. It seems that, when I played P3, I just wasn't sure of what I was doing at any time, and I was always afraid of messing up.

It's a lot harder to paint yourself into a corner in Persona 5 than in Persona 3, if that helps. It's a lot more forgiving, structurally, than its predecessor.

Malkroth wrote:

Some guidance on time management was asked for earlier so I will give some quick general tips:

  • Generally, you should focus on your teammates S-Links as it unlocks new powers and skills for them.
    ...

Otherwise don't stress too much about it and enjoy the game as it rolls on.

I would actually suggest focusing on some of the non-teammates first, at least until further into the game; otherwise I totally agree with your recommendations. Many of the teammates' high-level abilities aren't really needed until later in the game anyway. Spoiler for a few specifics (nothing plot related).

Spoiler:
  • Sun, Death, Devil, and Star all provide stat gains during some of the conversations where your rank increases. Getting these gains early may reduce the number of things you need to do later to boost your social stats.
  • If you max Temperance early, by the end of the game you will gain back much more time than you invested.
  • Star provides some crucial battle abilities.
  • Fortune can help improve your social stats and relationships more quickly, and also helps you earn more money in combat (an ability that pairs very well with Star).
  • Sun dramatically increases your ability to negotiate with shadows.
  • As you noted, Death can get you that crucial item which will restore SP every turn.
  • Hierophant can get you some very good SP restoratives as well, though for plot reasons you can't advance this relationship until later into the game.

As far as fusing personas goes, don't worry about messing up as long as you registered then before fusing. As stated earlier, you can pull a registered persona out of your compendium for some cash, and the more you register, the cheaper it gets once you hit those breakpoints.

It was mentioned but kind of in passing. In P5 the main characters personas level slower than your teammates. It's the games way of encouraging you to use fusion (also persona stop learning new skills after a few levels).

So I will stop worrying to much about fusing and worry more about my teacher's odd side job....

farley3k wrote:

So I will stop worrying to much about fusing and worry more about my teacher's odd side job....

That's the way to go, but unfortunately it's also one of the most cringe-worthy story lines in the game. So yes, worry about it, but don't worry about it too much

ComfortZone wrote:
farley3k wrote:

So I will stop worrying to much about fusing and worry more about my teacher's odd side job....

That's the way to go, but unfortunately it's also one of the most cringe-worthy story lines in the game. So yes, worry about it, but don't worry about it too much :)

So awkward but the perk at the end is so useful.

I've made my first foray into Kamoshida's palace, and I think I'm about halfway through. I love coming across little details I had forgotten from earlier, like the creepy little room behind the bookcase puzzle:

Spoiler:

Back there, Kamoshida has a shrine to Shiho Suzui. It's super creepy and very well done, with little pictures of Shiho pinned up all over the wall.

I feel like the game does a really good job writing this first villain, depicting how an abuser maintains his public image, manipulates and isolates his victims, and manages to avoid being called to account -- whether because other people don't want to see it, or are willing to look past it for all the "good" he does. This is an aspect of the plot that makes P5 feel very timely to me, and makes the first palace feel really personal to all of the characters involved.

In many ways, the subsequent palaces/villains never surpassed Kamoshida's for me. The horror was so mundane and personal, the feeling of helplessness so acute, the depiction of abuse so believable, that as the game widened its perspective it lost some of the impact. It's a great opening.

I felt the same way you about palaces 2 and 3, which felt a bit "villain of the week" to me. But the really strong writing and compelling characters kept me in it, and I felt that the game's impact picked up again starting with palace 4, and I loved some of the themes explored in the back half. Happy to talk about that more when we get there.

I had very mixed feelings on Kamoshida's palace.

On the one hand, I liked it for all the reasons you all have mentioned. It did a good job, I felt, of showing the public and private faces of abuse and how abusers are supported by people in authority looking the other way, and that was reflected in the way the palace was decorated.

On the other hand, this game is from the same developers who are busy releasing a version of Catherine with over a dozen choices of voice actress for the title character, each of which is identified by a fetish like "bossy big sister", as well as special in-game glasses so that the game's women appear in every cutscene wearing lingerie. I kinda wondered if the devs just wanted to have a palace decorated with teenage asses and found a storyline to support it.

ClockworkHouse wrote:

I had very mixed feelings on Kamoshida's palace.

On the one hand, I liked it for all the reasons you all have mentioned. It did a good job, I felt, of showing the public and private faces of abuse and how abusers are supported by people in authority looking the other way, and that was reflected in the way the palace was decorated.

On the other hand, this game is from the same developers who are busy releasing a version of Catherine with over a dozen choices of voice actress for the title character, each of which is identified by a fetish like "bossy big sister", as well as special in-game glasses so that the game's women appear in every cutscene wearing lingerie. I kinda wondered if the devs just wanted to have a palace decorated with teenage asses and found a storyline to support it.

Yeah I felt the same irony in the game itself actually. Even before I entered the first dungeon, the game gifted me some "swimsuit" outfits. Which is a little bizarre considering that they made a big deal out of

Spoiler:

Kamoshida's version of Ann wearing a bikini, and everyone acting disgusted or at least awkward about it

Although I do want to add, I feel like there is a difference between someone actually abusing someone and eye candy. So I'm not getting too bent out of shape about it. It's just an interesting contrast to think about.

jamos5 wrote:

Yeah I felt the same irony in the game itself actually. Even before I entered the first dungeon, the game gifted me some "swimsuit" outfits. Which is a little bizarre considering that they made a big deal out of

Spoiler:

Kamoshida's version of Ann wearing a bikini, and everyone acting disgusted or at least awkward about it

Yeah, I had the same response to that scene.

Spoiler:

So... how am I as the player, or you as the developer, any different than Kamoshida here? Or is the only justified sleezy dress-up my sleezy dress-up?

LastSurprise wrote:

I feel like the game does a really good job writing this first villain, depicting how an abuser maintains his public image, manipulates and isolates his victims, and manages to avoid being called to account -- whether because other people don't want to see it, or are willing to look past it for all the "good" he does. This is an aspect of the plot that makes P5 feel very timely to me, and makes the first palace feel really personal to all of the characters involved.

Yeah, I think I appreciate the first palace more this time. It's a shame it's also used as the "tutorial" level - there's a lot of new systems to take in, which can be pretty disruptive. But the scenario and villain are really well done.

I'm also more kindly disposed to Ryuji and Morgana - both quite overwhelming characters to start out with. I forgot that Sojiro starts out as such a grouch, too!

ClockworkHouse wrote:

I had very mixed feelings on Kamoshida's palace.

On the one hand, I liked it for all the reasons you all have mentioned. It did a good job, I felt, of showing the public and private faces of abuse and how abusers are supported by people in authority looking the other way, and that was reflected in the way the palace was decorated.

On the other hand, this game is from the same developers who are busy releasing a version of Catherine with over a dozen choices of voice actress for the title character, each of which is identified by a fetish like "bossy big sister", as well as special in-game glasses so that the game's women appear in every cutscene wearing lingerie. I kinda wondered if the devs just wanted to have a palace decorated with teenage asses and found a storyline to support it.

I think Catherine gets a pass with the aid of context since the character of Catherine is a succubus (a litteral demon of sexual temptation) and was described even in the original game as looking different to different people to match their desires. Something in context that can be read as a negative assessment of the protagonist's attitude can, inevitably, be taken differently by different kinds of players. The glasses thing might be a bridge to far, though.

In P5 I think it might come down to the writing and the development of other aspects of the game not quite being on the same page. Something that can happen a lot in games with lots of different people working on different parts as well as being influenced by the precised expectations of the market and management. Probably why I never really used that particular outfit despite using the costume function frequently (even going so far as to buy several of the DLC packs).

I forget when the swimsuit DLC was added. When I played through the game the first time I think only the alternate Persona characters were available. I can definitely see the dissonance in the choice to make that a free DLC and just drop it in every player's lap before she even joins the party.

I just remembered another tip about confidants people may want to pay attention to. If you want to be able to grind for exp/cash easily, do not level the Chariot confidant above 6.

Could also be noted that you can fine tune the difficulty to do things like increase or decrease the exp and money drop rates without changing the battle difficulty.

Just discovered the 2nd Palace. The events and nuances of the situation surrounding it seem even more complex that the 1st Palace's. At least, it seems to me that way going into it. Really digging the game and many of the quality of life improvements compared to previous titles in the series.

The humor so far is not bad. There's a few references - one to Tonari no Totoro, specifically - that genuinely made me chuckle.

Did you start from the beginning, brokenclavicle? If so, that seems pretty fast!

I played this for 45 minutes this morning, so that gives me the right to complain about the game, right?

It's just a minor annoyance, but it does involve a pet peeves of mine.

So, from what I've seen so far, outside of the opening sequence at the casino, the story is told from the point of view of the character (which I've named Akira Kurusu after looking up that it is the name he has in the manga), as he is telling his story to the lady who visits him while he's being tortured in custody. And yet, there is a (very short) sequence between the volleyball teacher and the other teacher talking about him. If he's not there, how can this be a part of the story, since he probably doesn't know about it.

As I said, it's a minor complaint. And it's the sort of thing I see all the time in fiction. (I'm playing Assassin's Creed II at the moment, and the game does it more than once.) It bugs me every time.

Another small complaint: I'm playing with Japanese voices, and some of the dialogue in the animations is not subtitled. I assume none of it is important if Atlus didn't go through the trouble of adding them (the important bits are subtitled), but it's still somewhat annoying (and my Japanese is not good enough for me to understand what they're saying).

Also: Holy sh*t, those menus!

That’s a really interesting observation! I hadn’t noticed it before, but I can think of a few other scenes where the MC doesn’t personally appear. I might be reaching a bit, but I think all of these scenes can be explained by inferring that someone told the MC about that moment, after the fact.

Also, as you’ll see as you get deeper into the story, the player’s experience is not necessarily what the MC tells Sae, but rather what he remembers as he talks with Sae. This might seem like a picky distinction right now.

EDIT: And also, glad you started up the game!

LastSurprise wrote:

Did you start from the beginning, brokenclavicle? If so, that seems pretty fast!

Nope. I'd started sometime last year and never picked it back up until the club, hence my reaching the 2nd palace.

bobbywatson wrote:

I played this for 45 minutes this morning, so that gives me the right to complain about the game, right?

It's just a minor annoyance, but it does involve a pet peeves of mine.

So, from what I've seen so far, outside of the opening sequence at the casino, the story is told from the point of view of the character (which I've named Akira Kurusu after looking up that it is the name he has in the manga), as he is telling his story to the lady who visits him while he's being tortured in custody. And yet, there is a (very short) sequence between the volleyball teacher and the other teacher talking about him. If he's not there, how can this be a part of the story, since he probably doesn't know about it.

As I said, it's a minor complaint. And it's the sort of thing I see all the time in fiction. (I'm playing Assassin's Creed II at the moment, and the game does it more than once.) It bugs me every time.

Another small complaint: I'm playing with Japanese voices, and some of the dialogue in the animations is not subtitled. I assume none of it is important if Atlus didn't go through the trouble of adding them (the important bits are subtitled), but it's still somewhat annoying (and my Japanese is not good enough for me to understand what they're saying).

Also: Holy sh*t, those menus!

The thing about the subtitles is because the Japanese audio track wasn't added until after release so the text you see in the game is just the text you would see regardless. Still the game should have had subtitles just for the sake of accessibility.

It's not quite the same but your comments about perspective reminded me about something I learned about the localization of Persona 3, 4, and 5. As it turns out Japanese is a language pretty much devoid of pronouns so in Japanese writing it is possible to have a neutral perspective narration which is what Persona 3, 4, and 5 originally had. However, when it came time to localize the games that wasn't possible in English so the translators had to pick a perspective to insert into the narration. In Persona 3 and 4 they used 2nd person and in Persona 5 they used 1st person.

I have been doing all sorts of social stuff for the last couple days. I have also started just using "R1" and picking spots rather than trying to walk to different areas. At first it was kind of fun to wander around but it just takes too long and doesn't seem to add much.

Finished Kamoshida off yesterday night!

Spoiler:

Throughout his palace, I've been using the endgame gear from my first run, but playing on Hard mode. This leaves me a little more powerful than I was the first time around, but the gear has much less of an effect than you would think. This is why I think the stat points and level of Joker's personas are so important.

Guns, on the other hand, were very powerful. Joker unloaded a full clip on Kamoshida and did nearly 800 damage. Ryuji performed similarly. Ann and Morgana couldn't quite match that, but still hit harder with their ranged weapons than with anything else.

farley3k wrote:

I have been doing all sorts of social stuff for the last couple days. I have also started just using "R1" and picking spots rather than trying to walk to different areas. At first it was kind of fun to wander around but it just takes too long and doesn't seem to add much.

Yeah, I hear you. That can get tedious. Wandering around could net you some interesting gossip from folks in school or on the street, but otherwise, you won't miss much, and you'll probably enjoy the game more by fast-traveling.

ComfortZone wrote:
LastSurprise wrote:

I feel like the game does a really good job writing this first villain, depicting how an abuser maintains his public image, manipulates and isolates his victims, and manages to avoid being called to account -- whether because other people don't want to see it, or are willing to look past it for all the "good" he does. This is an aspect of the plot that makes P5 feel very timely to me, and makes the first palace feel really personal to all of the characters involved.

Yeah, I think I appreciate the first palace more this time. It's a shame it's also used as the "tutorial" level - there's a lot of new systems to take in, which can be pretty disruptive. But the scenario and villain are really well done.

I'm also more kindly disposed to Ryuji and Morgana - both quite overwhelming characters to start out with. I forgot that Sojiro starts out as such a grouch, too!

I enjoy Ryuji's character a lot. I don't always like him -- he can get on my nerves -- but he seems really well-drawn. His initial reactions to discovering the metaverse, being attacked, and then awakening to his persona all seem very believable given the situations he confronts. He also learns and grow over time, in a way that feels real to me: through messing up, arguing with people, and reflecting on himself.

I think it took a while for this to crystallize for me, but Persona 5 handles teenage characters very well. They all have things that they're good at, and things that they're interested in, but they also have a lot of doubt about what they can accomplish and their place in the world, and they're trying to figure that out as time marches on.

LastSurprise wrote:

I think it took a while for this to crystallize for me, but Persona 5 handles teenage characters very well. They all have things that they're good at, and things that they're interested in, but they also have a lot of doubt about what they can accomplish and their place in the world, and they're trying to figure that out as time marches on.

Exactly - Ryuji annoys me when he flies off the handle, or says something brash, but that's just what a teenage boy might do. Knowing the characters better, I think I appreciate them more this time for who they are, rather than just reacting to their awkwardness.

I am kind of finding that, as much as I love this game, I am having a lot of trouble getting back into it. I think since I've already played it twice before it hasn't been long enough for me to want to come back to such a massive experience. So I can't guarantee that I'll be keeping up with the playthrough but I am still really looking forward to joining in on the discussion all the same.

Met the next boss

Spoiler:

Kaneshiro'

and got my next party member. It was quite a tough fight so I believe I need to spend some time leveling up.