2018/19 Soccer Thread

Prederick wrote:

Not a dead rubber in the CL draw for me, although Atleti-Juve should have it's over/under set at 2.5 goals. (I'd go under).

City v Shalke is the only bum draw really, although PSG should wipe the floor with United if Jose is still in charge there. Ajax are going to have to go some to beat Real too.

Spurs v Dortmund is the one I really couldn't pick a winner from. That could genuinely go either way.

Jose Mourwhino has been sacked as Man U manager. I guess Sir Alex cornered Woodward on the way out of Anfield on Sunday

Edit: Any Spurs fans here? Feeling nervous about Pochettino?

Prederick wrote:

Also, C'mon ManU! I predicted Mourinho wouldn't make it past Christmas! You've got nine days to prove me right!

Danke, gents.

Damn shame the Anfield chants of “don’t sack Mourinho” didn’t have the desired effect.

Sorbicol wrote:

Edit: Any Spurs fans here? Feeling nervous about Pochettino?

Yes. Yes.

omni wrote:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football... - Mou Mou is gone

Well, I was completely wrong about them waiting. Don't think anything's really changed since the summer, when it was obvious they needed to sack him.

I think Man Utd are too small of a step up for Poch to jump ship from Spurs. He has a better squad and has almost pre-Director of Football levels of control at Tottenham as a manager (to his and the club's detriment in the transfer market). I do wonder how much Manchester United would pay Spurs to get him mid-season though, my asking price would be £100m - I think Poch has been almost as big of a transformational figure for Spurs as Bale or Kane have been. When he does leave I expect it will be for Real Madrid.

Here's the question I discussed my Liverpool fan coworker today: What club is Zidane targeting? Even if he had a plum situation at RM, they did basically as well as possible under him, so he ought to be able to nearly pick his next job. Is United one he'd want? There's really no bigger job than RM right now. Maybe he's interested in a national team, but it's a long time until the next World Cup.

Zidane was smart enough to walk way from Real Madrid when it was clear they need to rebuild. Manchester United have some nice players but I can't see him walking into a rebuild situation. He seems smart enough to wait until he can walk into a perfect situation - perhaps post-Pep Manchester City if they don't let the squad age out?

Yeah, right now, I don't have any evidence that Zizou can develop talent and build a squad. He's clearly very skilled at taking a great squad and getting it over the hump (which I believe is absolutely a skill that people denigrate way too much), but I feel like there's going to need to be a serious clean-out and rebuild at United.

Then again, I did the research and looked at the first season Post-Mourinho for his last few stops:

Inter - So that's probably the best exit Mourinho had. Spent two years there, left with a treble.

Real Madrid - Mourinho left after the 2012-13 season, the following year Madrid won the Copa del Rey and the Champions League.

Chelsea - Chelsea win the Premier League the year after Mourinho leaves.

Hell, even after he left Chelsea the first time they came back and won the FA Cup the following season. So, expect a United trophy in 2019/20?

It is truly amazing how this man can give you one good season of success, and once he does, you really oughtta fire him because it's going to turn cancerous almost immediately thereafter.

As far as Poch goes, right now, as things stand, I think United is, amazingly, a step down. However, I think that long-term, I think United is a better choice. The question is, of course, whether anyone will survive to reap the "long-term" rewards.

Prederick wrote:

Then again, I did the research and looked at the first season Post-Mourinho for his last few stops:

Inter - So that's probably the best exit Mourinho had. Spent two years there, left with a treble.

Real Madrid - Mourinho left after the 2012-13 season, the following year Madrid won the Copa del Rey and the Champions League.

Chelsea - Chelsea win the Premier League the year after Mourinho leaves.

Hell, even after he left Chelsea the first time they came back and won the FA Cup the following season.

It is truly amazing how this man can give you one good season of success, and once he does, you really oughtta fire him because it's going to turn cancerous almost immediately thereafter.

Manchester United - Completely lose the ability to park the bus and turn big games to mud but still manage to finish 2nd on the back of otherworldly (and unsustainable) goalkeeping.

Also, please take your time to learn how American baseball star Mike Piazza and his wife managed to completely f*ck up an Italian club.

Cost cutting became her priority, in a way that felt personal. Every dime squandered was a direct hit to the family’s net worth. She ordered the drivers for youth team buses to stop dropping off players at their houses, to save on gas. She ordered the players to wash their own uniforms. (“I don’t think she realized that in Italy not everyone has a washing machine,” says Kondratenko, the American who handled social media for Reggiana.) She typed angry texts, calling employees she fired “conmen” and “frauds” and “liars.” The salutation of one text Alicia shared with me, sent to the team’s former sporting director: “f*ck off, loser.”

This is the kind of content and challenges FM is desperately missing.

Prederick wrote:

Also, please take your time to learn how American baseball star Mike Piazza and his wife managed to completely f*ck up an Italian club.

Cost cutting became her priority, in a way that felt personal. Every dime squandered was a direct hit to the family’s net worth. She ordered the drivers for youth team buses to stop dropping off players at their houses, to save on gas. She ordered the players to wash their own uniforms. (“I don’t think she realized that in Italy not everyone has a washing machine,” says Kondratenko, the American who handled social media for Reggiana.) She typed angry texts, calling employees she fired “conmen” and “frauds” and “liars.” The salutation of one text Alicia shared with me, sent to the team’s former sporting director: “f*ck off, loser.”

This is the kind of content and challenges FM is desperately missing.

To be fair to Alicia Piazza's, it seems he shoved her into the job to clean up everything after he screwed everything up in year one. And it's probably not the first time he's done it:

“I was retired when my second daughter was born,” he said. “And it’s my kids—I would never trade them for the world—but I remember thinking, ‘Here I am, I used to be hitting home runs in front of 43,000 people, and now I’ve got sh*t under my fingernails from changing diapers.’

Well, that was an exciting day in football world!

I'm not of the opinion that Manchester United need that thorough of a rebuilding. Mourinho made everything worse and the team was going through the motions. He had Pogba on the bench. Think about that. He's reduced one of the brightest football talents on the planet to a bench player. Two years ago, managers would have clawed each other to death to coach a team like this. Imagine where Pogba can be in a few months with an inspiring manager.

And despite the dour, mucked up season they've had so far, they've had moments of brilliance almost in spite of themselves. Even in Sunday's abysmal performance, there were brief offensive segments where they combined in impressive ways. I think a lot of had to do with just a lack of hope. Didn't they have something like the fewest average sprints per game in the Premier League? Stuff like that is immediately fixable. Mourinho lost the team and ripped the heart out of the players.

I don't know, but I think if you can get some sunshine in there, get a manager who can instill some belief in the players, this team can be really good right away. They're not at the Liverpool/Man City level, but with a good manager they've got top 4 potential right now. Fix or add a couple of defenders and a midfielder, and it's a whole different team. Even given how truly awful they've been this season, they are 6th in the Premier League.

I’m of half a mind they should unload Pogba not because he’s bad or can’t be good even at Man United, but because he’ll basically be unmanageable if he’s got it into his head that the second he dislikes a manager all he’s got to do is sulk for half a season and the manager will be the one to get the boot.

You get the impression that Pogba is a nightmare to manage regardless - there is a colossal ego there, you wonder how much Pogba looked at Zlatan and thought ‘yeah, that should be how I behave’.

To be sure Mourwhino permanent slagging off every other person in the team wasn’t helping either - there’s only so long you can work for a person determinedto blame you for everything when it’s not working, but take all the credit for every minor success. I’ve had the odd manager like that - you rapidly stop putting in effort when you don’t see any reward for it, and look to get out as soon as possible. But Mourwhino’s ego and Pogba’s ego in the same place was only ever going to end in disaster.

I do feel sorry for Man U fans - theirs owners are the root cause of so many of their problems - but the other issue Man U have is the passive influence of Sir Alex still pervades every aspect of how it is run and what it is. Any long term manager coming in will have to work out how to remodel an entire club to be what they want it to be - but shifting to a different culture is going to take a very long time, that they are extremely unlikely to be given considering United’s commercial need for success.

Sorbicol wrote:

To be sure Mourwhino permanent slagging off every other person in the team wasn’t helping either

This is a thing I never understood managers doing. Sure there will be the rare player who will take that as a challenge and improve in an “I’ll show him” sense, but I reckon for most it’ll only serve to damage the player’s confidence. In addition, if you actually think a player’s sh*t (as opposed to just not playing to their potential) what purpose does it serve to tank their market value if your intent is to get rid of them?

I fully expect Cardiff to get absolutely smacked on Saturday, with an immense performance from Pogba. It’ll be the players ‘it was him, not us’ statement.

Of course if they don’t then things at United are clearly a whole lot worse than previously thought.

So, thoughts on the Solskjaer interim hiring?

Doesn't seem like a strong move to me, but I don't know much about the guy.

I think it’s an odd one personally. His managerial record in the UK isn’t great (sacked from Cardiff City in 2014 I think) and he’s still Molde’s manager so, you’d think, he’ll be having distractions while he’s at Man U. I would have thought someone like Lauren Blanc would have been the much better option. Still he’s Man U through and through - you’d expect them batter Cardiff at the weekend.

Much more heartening to Man U fans will be Pochettino’s extremely non-comittal comittals to his long term future at Spurs last night. He’s clearly very interested in the job.

Smashing victory for Spurs over Arsenal yesterday. Jumped up and down at work when Son scored.

Sorbicol wrote:

Much more heartening to Man U fans will be Pochettino’s extremely non-comittal comittals to his long term future at Spurs last night. He’s clearly very interested in the job.

It almost makes one wonder if there's been some sort of conversation, with Pochettino saying something along the lines of "Let's talk in June".

Going to an interim manager so quickly for the rest of the year doesn't seem to make sense to me unless you have someone you're waiting for.

Sorbicol wrote:

I fully expect Cardiff to get absolutely smacked on Saturday, with an immense performance from Pogba. It’ll be the players ‘it was him, not us’ statement.

Of course if they don’t then things at United are clearly a whole lot worse than previously thought.

Yeah, if I were the betting type, I'd absolutely put money on United winning by at least three clear goals. If they grind out another dire 1-0 game or draw/lose, HOOOOOOBOY.

Bringing in Solskjaer is a move like bringing in Shearer or something though (although Solskjaer actually has managing experience). It'll instantly get the fans behind him, and he's got enough silverware in his past that he can probably begin to try and get the dressing room pulling in one direction (I don't think it'll be possible for him, or really any manager short of a Zidane-type to get this group 100% under control).

This is a thing I never understood managers doing. Sure there will be the rare player who will take that as a challenge and improve in an “I’ll show him” sense, but I reckon for most it’ll only serve to damage the player’s confidence.

I think, if I may briefly put on my Michael Wilbon hat (AND ONLY SLIGHTLY), it's a generational difference as well. Stuff that worked on players in 1988 ain't flying the same with players in 2018. I'm uninterested in whether it's good/bad, but if definitely is and your options are to change and evolve with the times, or get left all the way behind.

That said, even in 1988, Mourinho's non-stop criticism of his players would've lost him the dressing room.

Godzilla Blitz wrote:

Going to an interim manager so quickly for the rest of the year doesn't seem to make sense to me unless you have someone you're waiting for.

I mean, it could also be that they want to have someone in place for the January transfer window, but none of their serious targets are going to be available until the end of the season. I'd guess they don't want a Hiddink-at-Chelsea stopgap and want the next manager to be "the guy" again for a while.

They could really use a Hiddink right now though, just to give them the best shot of getting the train back on the tracks, because I can absolutely imagine a manager like that coming in and United somehow ending up winning the CL.

Premier League has 40 matches in 14 days! It's a great time to be going on break!

Must kind of suck to be actually playing in the Premier League over the holidays though.

And with today's goal, Salah retakes the top scorer spot. And to think, all the bantz people in comment sections had been saying "one-season wonder" basically because he wasn't Messi.

Prederick wrote:

And with today's goal, Salah retakes the top scorer spot. And to think, all the bantz people in comment sections had been saying "one-season wonder" basically because he wasn't Messi.

5th best player in the world according to The Guardian. It's a solid panel picking too.

Edit: Apparently there's nothing Virgil Van Dijk can't do.

A great note I saw about Liverpool:

Salah is probably the best attacking transfer in the last few seasons (certainly, best since de Bruyne), Virgil Van Dijk the best defensive, and they came in back-to-back transfer windows. Klopp, and whoever is in charge of Liverpool's transfer policy deserve an absolute shedload of credit.

Liverpool's transfers have been great for a long time going back for a while now, pretty much since they got rid of Comolli after his Downing and Carroll buys. Coutinho was great value, Firmino was great ( though the "transfer committee" got a lot of stick for that because Rodgers wasn't using him) and yeah, they've hit on their big transfer more recently too.

Naby Keita hasn't played anywhere near what I was expecting, I thought that was a guaranteed hit. Looked to be playing injured early on so maybe he'll need a full, healthy offseason to really kick on.

While even the high transfer fee signings have an element of risk, it’s hard to look past Andy Robertson in terms of value for transfer fee. That’s basically the type of coup that doesn’t happen anymore what with every other team also having scouting departments looking over potential bargains likely leading to something of bidding war if anyone else saw in him what Liverpool did.

Roke wrote:

Naby Keita hasn't played anywhere near what I was expecting, I thought that was a guaranteed hit. Looked to be playing injured early on so maybe he'll need a full, healthy offseason to really kick on.

Yeah it’s taking him a while to settle in isn’t it. I’ve seen moments where he’s looked like the player he can be, but still a way to go. Fabinho as taken a while to settle in but he is looking like a another terrific addition as well. Klopp and Pep both have that very rare ability to make already excellent players even better.