[Discussion] Mass Shootings - Yeah, we need a thread just for this...

This year is the deadliest year ever in terms of mass shootings. In a political climate of polarization, it becomes harder to suss out legitimate information from the misinformation propagated by those with political agendas. Complicating this more is the continual resistance of 2nd amendment advocates to allow for political talk surrounding these massacres. This will involve political discussion to see if there are ways we can all agree might be good ways to prevent mass shootings.

This discussion should involve the details of any current, or future mass shooting, and how they compare to past mass shootings. How are they the same? How are they different? Do gun laws have an impact? Does the race of the shooter affect how we treat them? What makes one a hate crime and one an act or terrorism? Are these shootings the price of freedom?

Aetius wrote:
gewy wrote:

If it’s a no threat environment, what do you need to carry a gun for?

"No threat environment" means that it's not combat - there's not a constant threat of attack. That doesn't mean that there are zero threats. In an average civilian concealed carry context, you might face a life-threatening situation once or twice in your lifetime - more if you're a woman, and more if you live in a high-crime area. But if and when it happens, you really need it; it's usually your only chance to get out of that situation alive.

That is straight up some fantasy white dude bullsh*t. Having a gun is literally not your only chance of getting out alive. Handing over your wallet and phone are if you get mugged. Get that bullsh*t outta here.

thrawn82 wrote:

and in what Journal was this statistical analysis published?

Posted my reply in the gun control thread.

gewy wrote:

If it’s a no threat environment, what do you need to carry a gun for?

B-I-N-G-O and bingo was his name-o

Mass shooting prevented? A lady reported a guy for racist posts. The police looked in on him and caught him leaving his house wearing a bullet proof vest, loaded down with guns and ammo and a detailed plans to shoot up a couple of schools.
terrible person

Can't believe cops actually took threatening Facebook message and checked it out. Progress.

Would they have done anything though if all his ammo and guns were just in his house and not his car? Or if he wasn't a dumbass enough to have written down his attack plans? Seems incredibly lucky here...

gewy wrote:

Would they have done anything though if all his ammo and guns were just in his house and not his car? Or if he wasn't a dumbass enough to have written down his attack plans? Seems incredibly lucky here...

What if he were on a rooftop with all his guns overlooking a liberal protest...

thrawn82 wrote:
gewy wrote:

Would they have done anything though if all his ammo and guns were just in his house and not his car? Or if he wasn't a dumbass enough to have written down his attack plans? Seems incredibly lucky here...

What if he were on a rooftop with all his guns overlooking a liberal protest...

There is an obvious distinction you fail to grasp. The sole shooter was planning; the very fine people were preparing.

Pittsburgh shooting at a synagogue. They have reports of multiple people dead but the situation is still active so that might be wrong.

Sad world

Baron Of Hell wrote:

Pittsburgh shooting at a synagogue. They have reports of multiple people dead but the situation is still active so that might be wrong.

Sad world

CNN reporting the shooter surrendered. Three casualties reported to be officers at the scene.
Edit: 8 people reported killed. Aaand it's a white male.

Chairman_Mao wrote:

Aaand it's a white male.

The fact that he's still alive after shooting multiple cops confirms that one. Which fast food restaurant did they stop at after he surrendered?

That's the third right-wing terrorist attack this week. The Kroger shooter was targeting a black church but arrived late and found the doors locked, so he went to Kroger instead. The mail bomber turned out to have MAGA stickers plastered all over his van. And now this.

Gremlin wrote:

That's the third right-wing terrorist attack this week. The Kroger shooter was targeting a black church but arrived late and found the doors locked, so he went to Kroger instead. The mail bomber turned out to have MAGA stickers plastered all over his van. And now this.

so many lone wolves.

If only there was a unifying voice for all these lone wolfs to rally behind.

I remember reading an article early this week that the police thwarted a school shooting last week because someone got a racist message on Facebook and she informed the police. So maybe even 4

Edit: here it is. POLICE: N.J. WOMAN WHO REPORTED RACIST FACEBOOK MESSAGE MAY HAVE STOPPED KENTUCKY SCHOOL SHOOTING

kazar wrote:

I remember reading an article early this week that the police thwarted a school shooting last week because someone got a racist message on Facebook and she informed the police. So maybe even 4

Edit: here it is. POLICE: N.J. WOMAN WHO REPORTED RACIST FACEBOOK MESSAGE MAY HAVE STOPPED KENTUCKY SCHOOL SHOOTING

Oh, if we're counting the ones that got stopped, I'm pretty sure the number is way higher.

For example, the terrorist who attacked an Amtrak train, the 2017 Texas mosque firebomber, the thwarted New York firebomber, and the Kansas apartment bomber plotters are just a few of the terrorist attacks in the past couple of years that haven't made major headlines because they were stopped before they killed anyone.

Gremlin wrote:
kazar wrote:

I remember reading an article early this week that the police thwarted a school shooting last week because someone got a racist message on Facebook and she informed the police. So maybe even 4

Edit: here it is. POLICE: N.J. WOMAN WHO REPORTED RACIST FACEBOOK MESSAGE MAY HAVE STOPPED KENTUCKY SCHOOL SHOOTING

Oh, if we're counting the ones that got stopped, I'm pretty sure the number is way higher.

For example, the terrorist who attacked an Amtrak train, the 2017 Texas mosque firebomber, the thwarted New York firebomber, and the Kansas apartment bomber plotters are just a few of the terrorist attacks in the past couple of years that haven't made major headlines because they were stopped before they killed anyone.

I just mentioned it because it was also this week.

kazar wrote:
Gremlin wrote:
kazar wrote:

I remember reading an article early this week that the police thwarted a school shooting last week because someone got a racist message on Facebook and she informed the police. So maybe even 4

Edit: here it is. POLICE: N.J. WOMAN WHO REPORTED RACIST FACEBOOK MESSAGE MAY HAVE STOPPED KENTUCKY SCHOOL SHOOTING

Oh, if we're counting the ones that got stopped, I'm pretty sure the number is way higher.

For example, the terrorist who attacked an Amtrak train, the 2017 Texas mosque firebomber, the thwarted New York firebomber, and the Kansas apartment bomber plotters are just a few of the terrorist attacks in the past couple of years that haven't made major headlines because they were stopped before they killed anyone.

I just mentioned it because it was also this week.

Good point. I wonder how many other attacks were stopped last week but we didn't hear about them?

‘Protector’ of Panama City suburb shot at truck, yelled racial slurs, police say

Miami Herald wrote:

Carl Kuhn, a Callaway resident neighbors call the Fox Avenue “hero,” told reporters last week that he was arrested by Bay County deputies after he shot a rifle twice into the ground to scare off looters after Hurricane Michael.

At the time of publication, the Bay County Sheriff’s Office said an official police report of the incident was inaccessible because of power-related issues in the building.

Over the weekend, an arrest report and affidavit were released on the sheriff’s office Facebook page, alleging Kuhn had been drinking prior to the incident and shot the gun not into the ground, but at a man driving by.

Kuhn was arrested and charged with aggravated assault and discharging a firearm while intoxicated. He was held on $10,000 bond for five days, and was bailed out by Barfield Bail Bonds, a service based in Wewahitchka.

Ruth Corley, a spokeswoman for the sheriff’s office, said deputies responded to a report of shots fired in the neighborhood at around 7 p.m. on Oct. 12 — just two days after the Category 4 storm smashed into the Panhandle.

The sheriff’s office is contracted to provide law enforcement for Callaway, a town of 15,000.

A black truck pulled up in front of Kuhn’s house, he told police, so he yelled at the two men inside to leave. He then fired two shots toward them to “scare them away” and protect his family and his property, he said.

Martin Cisneros, the man driving the truck, told police that he rents the house across from Kuhn’s for work. Cisneros was trying to check on the house after the storm, but downed trees in the road prevented him from getting his truck through.

Cisneros, who is Mexican, told police he drove off after he heard Kuhn call him a racial slur and then fire two gunshots.

“It was apparent to the deputies that he appeared intoxicated,” Corley said. Kuhn also candidly told police he had multiple beers before the incident.

Police confiscated two guns from Kuhn during the arrest — a Smith and Wesson pistol that was strapped to his chest and a rifle.

So he should get charged and convicted for attempting to grevious bodily harm, no? Over here that's only slightly less serious as a murder charge.

The white guy who shot and killed two women (and wounded four other women and a man) at a yoga studio in Florida last night was a 40-year-old right wing, racist incel. He predictably shot and killed himself afterwards.

He left behind a YouTube account (since deleted) featuring "several videos of himself offering extremely racist and misogynistic opinions in which he called women “sluts” and “whores,” and lamented “the collective treachery” of girls he went to high school with." Another video of his, called “The Rebirth of my Misogynism,” consisted of him naming all the women who had wronged him from 8th grade to around 2010 with their "lying" and "treachery." He also railed against Obama and the ACA in other videos saying his taxes shouldn't be used to support "the casual sex lives of slutty girls,” referring to the ACA's contraceptive provision.

He was also an aspiring musician, posting several songs to SoundCloud in recent months.

Buzzfeed News wrote:

Shortly before Friday’s shooting, Beierle uploaded one song called “f*ck ’Em All,” with the lyrics: “To hell with the boss that won’t get off my back / To hell with the girl I can’t get in the sack.”

Another song, called “Nobody’s Type,” featured him lamenting that women didn’t find him attractive. “I’m no athletic shark. I’m not a physical specimen. I don’t win the trophies and medals. Nobody stands in awe of me,” he sang.

In “American Wigger,” he sang that he would “blow off” the head of a women he referred to using the c-word. The song “Locked in my Basement” featured an extremely disturbing tale of Beierle holding a woman prisoner in his basement using chains so he could rape her.

Other songs were entitled "Who Let The Fags Out?" and "Bring Your Fatwa."

...

In a punk song he made called “Don’t Shame,” Beierle sang of walking into a girl’s locker room and going on “ass-grabbing rampage of underage girls.” He also spoke about grabbing women in the song “Handful of Bare Ass.” The Tallahassee Democrat newspaper reported he had been arrested in 2012 and 2016 for grabbing women’s buttocks without their consent. Prosecutors eventually dropped charges in both cases, according to the newspaper.

“I have no shame, but this is to blame. I would do anything. I just don’t care. I have no fear of any consequences,” he sang.

“I am pro-death," the song continued. "The more that die the merrier."

The Tallahassee Democrat article is a scary read on its own and it makes it clear that this guy wasn't right. But, of course, he was right enough to get a firearm.

I'm seeing notices of a mass shooting at a bar in California. No details yet.

Baron Of Hell wrote:

I'm seeing notices of a mass shooting at a bar in California. No details yet.

Mass shooting at California dance bar

kazar wrote:
Baron Of Hell wrote:

I'm seeing notices of a mass shooting at a bar in California. No details yet.

Mass shooting at California dance bar

There were apparently survivors of the Vegas shooting at the bar when this shooting happened. Horrifying.

Gremlin wrote:
kazar wrote:
Baron Of Hell wrote:

I'm seeing notices of a mass shooting at a bar in California. No details yet.

Mass shooting at California dance bar

There were apparently survivors of the Vegas shooting at the bar when this shooting happened. Horrifying.

There were also six off-duty sheriff's officers in the bar. The gunman still managed to shoot 22 people and kill 12, one of which was another sheriff's officer responding to the shooting. So there were at least seven "good guys with guns" on scene and the gunman still managed to kill a bunch of people (and then himself, of course).

Obviously the solution is more good guys with guns. 6 clearly wasn’t adaquete. We need to make sure everyone is armed.

The only thing that can stop a bad guy with a gun is 7 good guys with a gun.

Do officers carry their weapons even when they’re off duty? My naive assumption would be no, but I’m a sheltered Canadian.

Strewth wrote:

Do officers carry their weapons even when they’re off duty? My naive assumption would be no, but I’m a sheltered Canadian.

It's a personal choice, but of the police officers I've known personally, none of them were unarmed when off-duty. That's not to say that the deputies in the bar were armed; I don't think that's known at this point.

BTW that is my home town. I spent 20 years of my childhood there.
My dad still lives there. My family moved across the country to Thousand Oaks in 1978 (same house since then).

It is often on the list of safest cities and best places to live with over 100K population.
As much as I hate to sound cliche, if it can happen in TO, it can happen anywhere.

I never thought I would be every Goodjer's one degree of separation from this senselessness.

edit: it is a Cowboy bar not really a dance bar per se other than it is pretty big on line dancing.