2018 NBA Catch-All - LeBron Fallout Edition

IT was saying this just a year ago. It seems like he, or his agent, might have overvalued him and it bit him in the A. Crazy to think about.

And he's wearing a Sonic's hat in the vid! The curse never sleeps!

I swear I don't just post in the NBA threads to find the thinnest connection to Sonicsgate.

But I totally do.

I did not expect Kawhi to Toronto trade rumours to come close to being something but:

@ShamsCharania
San Antonio and Toronto are engaged in serious talks on a trade centered on Kawhi Leonard and DeMar DeRozan, league sources tell Yahoo.

Giving up Anunoby or Siakam in the package would be a tough pill to swallow for a guy who hasn't played in a year and looks set to be a one-year rental, though I'm not a sophisticated basketball fan.

I also have a soft spot for DeMar and he was a Raptor who actually wanted to stay in Toronto so that would suck. His bad playoff performances have been frustrating. The Raptors being good in the regular season and fun the last few years was a big part of me watching basketball regularly and DeMar continually getting better as a player has been a big part of that.

I call this the trade and pray.

Get him to Toronto and hope the city + management sell him on staying.

Depends on the rest of the package but seems like the Raptors clearly get the best player and if he walks then are they really that much worse off than trying to make this team win with no 1A player win? Not really.

jowner wrote:

I call this the trade and pray.

Get him to Toronto and hope the city + management sell him on staying.

Depends on the rest of the package but seems like the Raptors clearly get the best player and if he walks then are they really that much worse off than trying to make this team with no 1A player win? Not really.

Yup. Go for it, if Kawhi somehow wants to stay, great. If not the core's old and you're going to have to reset things pretty soon anyway.

Deal's agreed

@wojespn
Toronto has reached agreement in principle to acquire San Antonio's Kawhi Leonard for package that includes DeMar DeRozan, league sources tell ESPN. Trade is larger on both sides, and players are still being informed of their inclusion in the deal. Trade call with league today.

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1...

Spurs have agree to trade Kawhi Leonard and Danny Green to Toronto for DeMar DeRozan, Jakob Poeltl and a protected 2019 first-round pick, league sources tell ESPN. Trade call with league office is starting shortly.

I like the trade. Going to be tough to see DeMar in another uniform though. He seemed to love Toronto.

Roke wrote:

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1...

Spurs have agree to trade Kawhi Leonard and Danny Green to Toronto for DeMar DeRozan, Jakob Poeltl and a protected 2019 first-round pick, league sources tell ESPN. Trade call with league office is starting shortly.

I like the trade. Going to be tough to see DeMar in another uniform though. He seemed to love Toronto.

How does this trade benefit Toronto? They traded the face of the franchise who loved being there for a guy who reportedly has no desire to be a Raptor and will most certainly opt out next summer.

mindset.threat wrote:
Roke wrote:

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1...

Spurs have agree to trade Kawhi Leonard and Danny Green to Toronto for DeMar DeRozan, Jakob Poeltl and a protected 2019 first-round pick, league sources tell ESPN. Trade call with league office is starting shortly.

I like the trade. Going to be tough to see DeMar in another uniform though. He seemed to love Toronto.

How does this trade benefit Toronto? They traded the face of the franchise who loved being there for a guy who reportedly has no desire to be a Raptor and will most certainly opt out next summer.

The argument goes that DD is on a bad contract for the player that he is. Toronto's window is closing for making the finals and would likely be starting a tear down after the 18/19 season whether or not DD was there. They had an opportunity to grab a top 5 MVP player with no LeBron in the East, for a lower price than they should have. If (and a giant if, mind you) Kawhi is healthy and plays like Kawhi, he is a substantial upgrade to DD on both ends of the court. It also allows the front office an out for a rebuild starting 19/20, as they can say they made the effort to resign KL in the same fashion OKC convinced Paul George to stay.

Now, is Kawhi physically able and mentally engaged to play hard and well for Toronto?

Right, I think this was a bad trade for Toronto. Derozan's contract is not that bad and he is in it for 3 more years. You traded him for one year of Kawhi that you don't even know if he is healthy and he has already shown a willingness to subvert a team. Will he pout all year because he doesn't want to play there, or will he try hard since it is a contract year? Who knows.

I think they gave up too much for the risk involved.

Its effectively a signal to the fanbase that the rebuild is on.
You get one year of dreams and prayers and then process time.

There's lots assuming going on here that are against each other logically.

So he's not going to try but then walk to the Lakers on a max deal?

If I'm a Lakers fan I'm not sure how stoked I'd be next year throwing big money at him if he doesn't prove this year he's healthy and he cares to actually play.

I think it's a brilliant move. Hardly gave up anything. Get the legitimate chance of selling Toronto (more about staying in the east) and him staying.

Technically if it's awful don't the Raps have the option to trade him at the deadline? Recoup some assets even earlier.

jowner wrote:

There's lots assuming going on here that are against each other logically.

So he's not going to try but then walk to the Lakers on a max deal?

If I'm a Lakers fan I'm not sure how stoked I'd be next year throwing big money at him if he doesn't prove this year he's healthy and he cares to actually play.

I think it's a brilliant move. Hardly gave up anything. Get the legitimate chance of selling Toronto (more about staying in the east) and him staying.

Technically if it's awful don't the Raps have the option to trade him at the deadline? Recoup some assets even earlier.

This is where I am at, along with boogle's statement. Who has ever said "DD is the piece we need to play for a championship." No one. Toronto got the best player in the trade and it isn't even close. Is it enough even if KL is motivated and healthy? Toronto is taking the chance that it is.

jowner wrote:

There's lots assuming going on here that are against each other logically.

So he's not going to try but then walk to the Lakers on a max deal?

If I'm a Lakers fan I'm not sure how stoked I'd be next year throwing big money at him if he doesn't prove this year he's healthy and he cares to actually play.

I think it's a brilliant move. Hardly gave up anything. Get the legitimate chance of selling Toronto (more about staying in the east) and him staying.

Technically if it's awful don't the Raps have the option to trade him at the deadline? Recoup some assets even earlier.

He seemed to quit on a hall of fame coach and one of the best organizations in all of sports, so why is it farfetched to think Kawhi wouldn't be all that motivated in Toronto of all places? All his shenanigans this year did nothing to quell the Lakers desire for him.

The last bit about trading him is really the only way this makes sense to me. Shed DD's contract (given how many awful contracts the NBA has right now, this one really isn't bad), pick up the 1st from the Spurs, trade Kawhi at the deadline for more picks and start rebuilding in earnest.

edit: I got that backwards...the Spurs got the 1st round pick. Ignore me, I'm tired.

mindset.threat wrote:
jowner wrote:

There's lots assuming going on here that are against each other logically.

So he's not going to try but then walk to the Lakers on a max deal?

If I'm a Lakers fan I'm not sure how stoked I'd be next year throwing big money at him if he doesn't prove this year he's healthy and he cares to actually play.

I think it's a brilliant move. Hardly gave up anything. Get the legitimate chance of selling Toronto (more about staying in the east) and him staying.

Technically if it's awful don't the Raps have the option to trade him at the deadline? Recoup some assets even earlier.

He seemed to quit on a hall of fame coach and one of the best organizations in all of sports, so why is it farfetched to think Kawhi wouldn't be all that motivated in Toronto of all places? All his shenanigans this year did nothing to quell the Lakers desire for him.

The last bit about trading him is really the only way this makes sense to me. Shed DD's contract (given how many awful contracts the NBA has right now, this one really isn't bad), pick up the 1st from the Spurs, trade Kawhi at the deadline for more picks and start rebuilding in earnest.

edit: I got that backwards...the Spurs got the 1st round pick. Ignore me, I'm tired.

Isaiah Thomas is the example for needing to show up this season. KL is obviously a way better player with a longer resume of being great.

There's other FAs available next year also.

Raps honestly didn't give much up.

The Lakers could have KL right now but I think their play was keep all our assets and actually make sure he comes back next year healthy.

Big question does LeBron actually want a guy who quit on a HF coach also? Depending on who actually hits FA next year + the youth develop the Lakers could go an entirely different direction.

jowner wrote:
mindset.threat wrote:
jowner wrote:

There's lots assuming going on here that are against each other logically.

So he's not going to try but then walk to the Lakers on a max deal?

If I'm a Lakers fan I'm not sure how stoked I'd be next year throwing big money at him if he doesn't prove this year he's healthy and he cares to actually play.

I think it's a brilliant move. Hardly gave up anything. Get the legitimate chance of selling Toronto (more about staying in the east) and him staying.

Technically if it's awful don't the Raps have the option to trade him at the deadline? Recoup some assets even earlier.

He seemed to quit on a hall of fame coach and one of the best organizations in all of sports, so why is it farfetched to think Kawhi wouldn't be all that motivated in Toronto of all places? All his shenanigans this year did nothing to quell the Lakers desire for him.

The last bit about trading him is really the only way this makes sense to me. Shed DD's contract (given how many awful contracts the NBA has right now, this one really isn't bad), pick up the 1st from the Spurs, trade Kawhi at the deadline for more picks and start rebuilding in earnest.

edit: I got that backwards...the Spurs got the 1st round pick. Ignore me, I'm tired.

Isaiah Thomas is the example for needing to show up this season. KL is obviously a way better player with a longer resume of being great.

There's other FAs available next year also.

Raps honestly didn't give much up.

The Lakers could have KL right now but I think their play was keep all our assets and actually make sure he comes back next year healthy.

Big question does LeBron actually want a guy who quit on a HF coach also? Depending on who actually hits FA next year + the youth develop the Lakers could go an entirely different direction.

In a counter-intuitive way, I think questions of KL quitting on a HOF Coach actually keeps his value higher. What is the alternative? That he really was hurt to the point that he would be a much lesser player, aka Isaiah Thomas. What is a better risk for a team, a guy who is highly talented and wants out of his current situation or a guy who shows diminished physical skills? Plenty of the former have gotten paid but few of the latter have.

Toronto better hope it is the former. Worst case for them is KL is not the player they traded for due to health AND he is a disgruntled head case.

Yeah. LeBron is an advocate of players and doesn’t seem to put that much stock in the value of coaches.

I was just thinking the thought "would LeBron quit on a Hall of Fame coach?"

Jesus, the Lakers really are just aiming for LeBron, the Kids, and the Island of Misfit Wackadoos.

Newest signing is Michael Beasley for 1 year, $3.5m. The human victory blunt!

Blind_Evil wrote:

Jesus, the Lakers really are just aiming for LeBron, the Kids, and the Island of Misfit Wackadoos.

Newest signing is Michael Beasley for 1 year, $3.5m. The human victory blunt!

I like it!

The NBA FA market is currently interesting to me.

Historically it's been riddled with atrocious contracts that cripple a franchise. I'm sure there are plenty of those still around but LeBron + a shrewd gm with cap room to cobble together The Dirty Dozen might work.

IMAGE(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DlYBeQtW0AAP7qJ.jpg:large)

Looks like the one-and-done rule is really on its way out. Am I the only one that believes that college and NBA basketball would both be better if you had to be 21 to play in the NBA?

I don't agree with that at all. A lot of 18 year olds aren't served well by jumping right into pro sports, but then there are a lot of adults who aren't ready for college either.

The age limit rule made a joke of college basketball as well as enabling a corrupt cartel.

I'd much rather the NBA supported players going pro and just put in place a governance structure for helping with money management, life skills, etc. for young players. A robust D-League could be good for everyone.

+1 to what DS said.

I like the MLB route. If you are ready, go pro. But if you go to college, you push back your eligibility by three years. Of course, it helps that MLB has an entire tiered minor league system to develop young players they draft.

This eases the pressure on both the players and coaches in college. When you have a one and done, it’s hard to develop the kid, as you need to play him sooner to get some value out of the scholarship you just spent on him. It helps link performance to playing time, and gives coaches the time and incentive to work on the little things.

Yes if the DG-League was actually legitimate, the MLB rule would work perfect. I've even seen it suggested as 2 years of college instead of 3. But either way, it's a much better system than the NBA has currently.

I don’t want the NCAA having any say over when people get paid to ply their trade. I think Jalen Rose is spot on when he says football and basketball have been over regulated because of institutional racism in the NCAA due to the fact that they’re traditionally the black sports.

The NCAA lost out on the money they would have made off Lebron and KG and Kobe, the NBA owners got burnt on Eddy Curry, Kwame Brown, and Sebastian Telfair. Win win for the rich white folks. The rule needs to be abolished.

Stele wrote:

Yes if the DG-League was actually legitimate

I think the league's trying to make this a reality. They increased the player pay to $35k for the season, and includes housing and insurance. It's not great money, but with housing covered(even if it's just for the 5 months the season's on), it's at least a semi-livable wage, especially compared to minor league baseball pay.

The main problem right now is that there are only 27 teams. The NBA needs to expand the last 3 so every team has a G-league affiliate.

Pay college players, have relegation and bring up the Final Four and downgrade the tanking teams.

And no salary cap.

When I said 21 and up would be good for both levels of basketball, I meant the on-court product. I don’t want to go back to the days of drafting kids out of high school whose career dies on the bench because they don’t get playing time, or who are forced into starting because they were a top 10 pick even though they are not ready and then I have to watch it. I want higher skill levels in both college and NBA and I think a 21 and up rule does that. Putting aside the ‘right to work’ and who is making money considerations, I am just talking about the basketball aspect.

I knew what you meant. I have nostalgia myself for the days of legendary basketball players like Lew Alcindor, Akeem Olajuwon and Drexler, Ewing, etc.

But it’s wrong. It just is. It’s morally wrong. As BlindEvil says it’s a symptom of our racist country that baseball is regulated one way and basketball and football another.

The NBA can obviously make rules about who should play in their league. And the NCAA could restrict scholarships to 4 year students. But the days of the NBA and NCAA colluding to control the opportunities of young men has to be over.