[Discussion] Mass Shootings - Yeah, we need a thread just for this...

This year is the deadliest year ever in terms of mass shootings. In a political climate of polarization, it becomes harder to suss out legitimate information from the misinformation propagated by those with political agendas. Complicating this more is the continual resistance of 2nd amendment advocates to allow for political talk surrounding these massacres. This will involve political discussion to see if there are ways we can all agree might be good ways to prevent mass shootings.

This discussion should involve the details of any current, or future mass shooting, and how they compare to past mass shootings. How are they the same? How are they different? Do gun laws have an impact? Does the race of the shooter affect how we treat them? What makes one a hate crime and one an act or terrorism? Are these shootings the price of freedom?

This is just Napster for guns. Same impact on the industry. Except instead of sharing great tunes some ass hat is going to kill people or get shot well farthing around with their cool new printed gun. Also I can totally see people printing bump stocks. Heck, the assault rifle plans were downloaded 60 plus times when uploaded the other day.

So what?

At this point, the country is awash in guns. It's not like it's a challenge to procure a firearm, so tossing in the ability to print one (that is likely comparatively shoddy) in your garage barely changes that math.

If this was a country that had sane firearm policy, then this would be more of an issue. As it is, it's a drop in the ocean.

I'm just going off of distant recollection, but I believe that there will still be some metallic components (such as the recoil spring). I'm just not sure if there would be enough metal to kick off a detector.

Which Tom Clancy novel covered this? I remember Eastwood and Malkovich in it.

lunchbox12682 wrote:

Which Tom Clancy novel covered this? I remember Eastwood and Malkovich in it.

In The Line of Fire

Actually not a Tom Clancy novel.

lunchbox12682 wrote:

Which Tom Clancy novel covered this? I remember Eastwood and Malkovich in it.

In the Line of Fire

Dammit. JLShausered

JeffreyLSmith wrote:
lunchbox12682 wrote:

Which Tom Clancy novel covered this? I remember Eastwood and Malkovich in it.

In The Line of Fire

Actually not a Tom Clancy novel.

That's the one. It might as well have been a Clancy movie

lunchbox12682 wrote:
JeffreyLSmith wrote:
lunchbox12682 wrote:

Which Tom Clancy novel covered this? I remember Eastwood and Malkovich in it.

In The Line of Fire

Actually not a Tom Clancy novel.

That's the one. It might as well have been a Clancy movie

That's the one where the assassin has a resin gun in like 4 or 5 parts? I have vague memories of him assembling it and not much else.

Jonman wrote:

So what?

At this point, the country is awash in guns. It's not like it's a challenge to procure a firearm, so tossing in the ability to print one (that is likely comparatively shoddy) in your garage barely changes that math.

If this was a country that had sane firearm policy, then this would be more of an issue. As it is, it's a drop in the ocean.

I think the so what is that now criminals will be able to 3d print guns so they will be much harder to trace. So more criminals will start using them.

But, as others have said that will cut into the profits for the NRA's bosses - so they will have to be against it - but they can't be against it because it is a 2nd Amendment RIGHT! -

Watching the mental gymnastics of the NRA will be illuminating and entertaining.

farley3k wrote:
Jonman wrote:

So what?

At this point, the country is awash in guns. It's not like it's a challenge to procure a firearm, so tossing in the ability to print one (that is likely comparatively shoddy) in your garage barely changes that math.

If this was a country that had sane firearm policy, then this would be more of an issue. As it is, it's a drop in the ocean.

I think the so what is that now criminals will be able to 3d print guns so they will be much harder to trace. So more criminals will start using them.

But, as others have said that will cut into the profits for the NRA's bosses - so they will have to be against it - but they can't be against it because it is a 2nd Amendment RIGHT! -

Watching the mental gymnastics of the NRA will be illuminating and entertaining.

The NRAs stance has always been that the ability to trace weapons is a threat to the 2nd amendment and they fight tooth and nail to prevent it. One of the NRA patrons primary sources of income is the flow of weapons from manufacturer, to legal purchaser, to criminal market; so their primary focus (read: reason for existence) is protecting those legal purchasers as they funnel weapons along that pipeline.

It will be the height of irony if that is their argument now that the weapons that cannot be traced in the hands of criminals are no longer making money for the manufacturers.

Change the hysterics from “the guv’mint is comin’ fer yer guns” to “they’re comin” fer yer ammo!”

Wink_and_the_Gun wrote:

Change the hysterics from “the guv’mint is comin’ fer yer guns” to “they’re comin” fer yer ammo!”

AKA The Swedish System

thrawn82 wrote:
Wink_and_the_Gun wrote:

Change the hysterics from “the guv’mint is comin’ fer yer guns” to “they’re comin” fer yer ammo!”

AKA The Swedish System

Or Chris Rock system:

That does bring up a good question. Why can't communities jack up taxes on ammunition they way they do on liquor and tobacco?

Because guns are an unimpeachable (well, there's that whole "well-regulated militia" bit, but we ignore that) Constitutional right to have guns, but liquor and tobacco are just for funsies. You can't pass prohibitive taxes on Constitutional rights, you commie!

farley3k wrote:

I think the so what is that now criminals will be able to 3d print guns so they will be much harder to trace. So more criminals will start using them.

But, as others have said that will cut into the profits for the NRA's bosses - so they will have to be against it - but they can't be against it because it is a 2nd Amendment RIGHT! -

Watching the mental gymnastics of the NRA will be illuminating and entertaining.

Real talk - tracability is a canard

1: How easy do you think it is to trace a gun used in a crime today?
2: To what extent is the current level of gun tracability acting as a deterrent to the use of a firearm in a crime?
3: Lack of tracability isn't going to put printed guns in criminals hands (see spoiler). Low cost and ease of access will.

Spoiler:

1: Not very
2: Given that rate at which firearms are used in crimes today, it's a heavy lift to claim that there's a significant deterrent effect of tracability.

thrawn82 wrote:
lunchbox12682 wrote:
JeffreyLSmith wrote:
lunchbox12682 wrote:

Which Tom Clancy novel covered this? I remember Eastwood and Malkovich in it.

In The Line of Fire

Actually not a Tom Clancy novel.

That's the one. It might as well have been a Clancy movie

That's the one where the assassin has a resin gun in like 4 or 5 parts? I have vague memories of him assembling it and not much else.

Yup. After getting it past the Secret serivce, if I recall correctly.

lunchbox12682 wrote:
thrawn82 wrote:
lunchbox12682 wrote:
JeffreyLSmith wrote:
lunchbox12682 wrote:

Which Tom Clancy novel covered this? I remember Eastwood and Malkovich in it.

In The Line of Fire

Actually not a Tom Clancy novel.

That's the one. It might as well have been a Clancy movie

That's the one where the assassin has a resin gun in like 4 or 5 parts? I have vague memories of him assembling it and not much else.

Yup. After getting it past the Secret serivce, if I recall correctly.

And he hid the metal parts and bullets in a key chain.

Jonman wrote:
farley3k wrote:

I think the so what is that now criminals will be able to 3d print guns so they will be much harder to trace. So more criminals will start using them.

But, as others have said that will cut into the profits for the NRA's bosses - so they will have to be against it - but they can't be against it because it is a 2nd Amendment RIGHT! -

Watching the mental gymnastics of the NRA will be illuminating and entertaining.

Real talk - tracability is a canard

1: How easy do you think it is to trace a gun used in a crime today?
2: To what extent is the current level of gun tracability acting as a deterrent to the use of a firearm in a crime?
3: Lack of tracability isn't going to put printed guns in criminals hands (see spoiler). Low cost and ease of access will.

Spoiler:

1: Not very
2: Given that rate at which firearms are used in crimes today, it's a heavy lift to claim that there's a significant deterrent effect of tracability.

A: That lack of trace-ability is by design not accident. Efforts to develop better methods have been actively resisted.
B: As a society we are really bad at judging and crafting law enforcement/punishment policy based on deterrence. Look at policy surrounding capital punishment and the piles upon piles of studies showing an utter lack of deterrence there.

I could certainly see how criminal enterprises would discover great utility in an untraceable, single use firearm that could easily be dissolved in a gallon of acetone.

Chris W. Cox, executive director, National Rifle Association Institute for Legislative Action wrote:

“Many anti-gun politicians and members of the media have wrongly claimed that 3-D printing technology will allow for the production and widespread proliferation of undetectable plastic firearms. Regardless of what a person may be able to publish on the Internet, undetectable plastic guns have been illegal for 30 years. Federal law passed in 1988, crafted with the NRA’s support, makes it unlawful to manufacture, import, sell, ship, deliver, possess, transfer, or receive an undetectable firearm.”

https://twitter.com/NRA/status/10243...

MrWynd wrote:

Your statement is literally saying it's ok to distribute the means to create illegal firearms because there's a law making them illegal?!

https://twitter.com/mrwynd/status/10...

thrawn82 wrote:
Jayhawker wrote:

This may get more interesting, as the NRA is against this. That finally pits the NRA against the 2nd Amendment, because the NRA was never about freedom, but about making sure gun manufactures have a steady stream of consumers.

I was about to say, this is actually a BIGGER threat to the NRA because it directly attacks their patron's profits.

3D printed guns attack Russia's profits?

Here's what Broward schools knew about Parkland shooter — details revealed by mistake

The Sun-Sentinel wrote:

In the year leading up to the mass shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, killer Nikolas Cruz was stripped of the therapeutic services disabled students need, leaving him to navigate his schooling as a regular student despite mounds of evidence that he wasn’t.

When he asked to return to a special education campus, school officials fumbled his request.

Those conclusions were revealed Friday in a consultant’s report commissioned by the Broward public school system. Broward Circuit Judge Elizabeth Scherer ordered that the report be released publicly, but with nearly two-thirds of the content blacked out.

The school district said the alterations were needed to comply with the shooter’s privacy rights, but the method the district used to conceal the text failed. The blacked-out text became visible when pasted into another computer file.

What emerged was the first detailed account of Cruz’s years in the school system, what the school district knew about him and what mistakes were made.

Without directly criticizing the schools, the consultant, the Collaborative Educational Network of Tallahassee, recommended that the district reconsider how cases like Cruz’s are handled. The recommendations suggest that Cruz could have been offered more help in his final two years in high school, leading up to the Feb. 14 shooting.

Whether that would have changed the outcome is impossible to know.

The consultant found that the district largely followed the laws, providing special education to the shooter starting when he was 3 years old and had already been kicked out of day care. But “two specific instances were identified,” the report says, where school officials did not follow the requirements of Florida statute or federal laws governing students with disabilities.

Those instances:

-- School officials misstated Cruz’s options when he was faced with being removed from Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School his junior year, leading him to refuse special education services.

-- When Cruz asked to return to the therapeutic environment of Cross Creek School for special education students, the district “did not follow through,” the report reveals.

In part because of the errors, Cruz had no school counseling or other special education services in the 14 months leading up to the shooting on Feb. 14, the report says.

Wow. I'm sure that school will now get the pants sued off of it and hopefully be made an example of.

Probably. And I am sure voters will resoundingly vote down measures to increase funding for the school system and they complain when the system falls down around them.

I'm not into football games but there was shooting at a live madden event on twitch. At least four people dead. As of this moment the shooter is still at large.

Shooter is one of the casualties, possibly another one at large. Four dead, 15 injured.

https://www.polygon.com/2018/8/26/17...

Apparently the shooter was one of the players who lost his match. Nice.

It's a toxic culture trifecta: gamer, gun, and male.