Hollow Knight

I'm about 10 hours in going spoiler free (reading nothing, looking up nothing), and I'll be damned if this game isn't near perfect so far. Just amazing. I really don't have much else to add, but I needed to tell someone!

If you're into Metroidvania games, there's few that will top Hollow Knight, especially for the money. It's hard to talk about it because it'd spoil too many things for new gamers.

I was really excited to try this game out. Big fan of the souls games and this looked like a cross between those and a typical metroidvania. 2-3 hrs in I'm pretty much given up on it though. I don't like the check pointing, definitely don't like the mapping, and the platforming just frustrates me (this is 90% me being bad at platforming). Ultimately, this all adds up to the most damning thing for me which is not respecting my time.

Finished this up yesterday on Switch. Wonderful game. I unlocked the

Spoiler:

true final boss but don't wanna bother, fight seems too hard and 45 hours is enough for me.

The visuals and metroidvania aspect of this are very appealing to me. Really stiff difficulty with no easy mode is super not appealing. How difficult is this thing really?

Just interested in any main quest stuff, optional or post-game stuff that's super difficult I've got zero problem skipping if the main line is reasonably do-able.

Some of the stuff is difficult but not unfairly so. You definitely need to learn the rhythm of the game's fighting and healing mechanics. I find the platforming fun and interesting, and with a lot of the bosses, I have died the first time but done just fine the second (or the third, for a couple of tough ones), after I have a sense of their pattern.

The thing that might frustrate you the most is the death mechanic. When you die, you lose all of your money and spawn a ghost on the map near the point where you died. You have to track down and kill that ghost to get your money back; if you die a second time, a new ghost overwrites that old one, and any money with the old one is lost forever. In practice, this is not too bad. If you die fighting a boss, the ghost is often positioned right before you would trigger the boss fight. So far, I've only had a problem once: when I died in the middle of a crazy hard platforming room and decided I wasn't going to go back to reclaim my ghost.

On the other hand, I feel that this game does exploration better than most metroidvanias. Very little is explained, but much is intuitive, and the game feels almost like a master-class example of the whole "show, don't tell" approach to storytelling.

Sounds very much like souls games, so I'm probably out.

I've never played the Dark Souls series, but yeah, I've heard it's inspired by those.

For what it's worth, I found Hollow Knight to be way easier than the Souls games. I was actually a little surprised, as I had been expecting something much more difficult than what it turned out to be. Could be entirely a personal thing though - I think I'm much better at 2D platformers than 3D action games.

You can eventually unlock something to make the post-death corpse-run easier too.

halfwaywrong wrote:

For what it's worth, I found Hollow Knight to be way easier than the Souls games. I was actually a little surprised, as I had been expecting something much more difficult than what it turned out to be. Could be entirely a personal thing though - I think I'm much better at 2D platformers than 3D action games.

You can eventually unlock something to make the post-death corpse-run easier too.

Yeah I found the exact opposite as I'm much better at 3D action games than platformers.

Well, I'm bad at both!

This game gets wayyyy better when you get aways into the second area and start getting new moves and items. Took me about 3 hours to get there.

I really need to get over the hump with this game. I love the controls, I love the combat, love the atmosphere, love the whole vibe, but I feel like I’m lost the whole time. I’ve beat a few bosses, I just got the air dash, and still never feel like I have any idea we’re to go next. I don’t mind exploring but I hate feeling aimless. I’ve already had to look up where to go next in walkthroughs.

I had that feeling often enough. I never felt bad about checking a guide in spots. In your particular spot, I had no way of knowing that...

Spoiler:

you can slash down on the bouncy mushrooms to get to the next major area.

Gods and Glory, the final (?) free DLC expansion, launches on August 23rd. I've been dying to play this game that everyone and their grandmother has been gushing about for the past year, but I wanted to wait until the game was complete. Just one more month to go.

Yeah I did the vanilla release but have been waiting for all the dlc to do a second run

After essentially binging this game for the past two weeks, I'm kicking myself for not playing it last year. This may end up surpassing SotN as my favorite Metroidvania ever. I have only skimmed the thread to avoid late game spoilers, but I agree with the notion that this game nails the tonality of the Souls games in a way that others have not.

The focus healing system is brilliant. It provides a unique risk/reward system for healing that makes it easy to recover from bad encounters with normal enemies, but makes it very difficult to rely on during aggressive boss fights.

More detailed thoughts when I finish, but I am pretty amazed by both the quality and the absurd size of this game.

Unsurprisingly, after about nine hours, I think I've hit my difficulty wall.

Spoiler:

Soul Master

is kicking the hell out of me. I thought I'd gotten past, but then surprise, phase 2 happened. I can't manage to consistently get through phase 1, and whenever I do, it's with a point or two of health left, so I don't last long enough in phase 2 to figure it out. Then I get to do the just-long-enough to be annoying run back, so I've got a good chunk of time to stew on it.

If I kept bashing my head against the wall, I'm sure I'd eventually be able to get past him. But then I know that bosses tend to get harder, so I'll run into another one of these again, and I don't have the mental fortitude to have a game keep punching me in the face and telling me I'm not good enough. It's too bad, because I really liked most of the other parts of the game, and I'd like to keep playing.

That boss probably gave me the hardest time so far out of any boss I've faced, with the possible exception of the following:

Spoiler:

Mantis Lords. Although their patterns are easier than Soul Master, I think.

One of my friends, who loved this game, really felt like he ran into a wall with the same boss you mentioned. He left and explored other parts of the game, then came back and beat the boss later, after he had gained some more power. It really seems that, in this game, there is not necessarily a definitive sequence (though beating this one will open up some gates), and so I think you don't necessarily have to do this boss before some of the other ones out there.

Getting more notches and charms could definitely help. Have you found any of the Fragile charms? If you made it to phase 2, those might be able to help you get on through.

I swear I explored everywhere else I could, and this seems to be the only place I can go that doesn't require a movement ability I haven't gotten yet. I think I've bought most of the charms and notches that are available, but maybe I haven't.

I dunno, the last time or two I've been playing this, it's actively made me feel bad and bad about myself, so my motivation for going back in is real low.

I found the DLC quest line for the Grimm Troupe last night and spent my time completing it. I made it up to the 2nd boss fight and... yeah... I think I'm going to have to come back for him later. He seems significantly more difficult than anything else in the game thus far. Wow.

It was nice to find that quest to open up another Geo dump. I had been sitting on 15-20k for a while and wasn't sure if there was anything else to spend it on.

After stumbling around for a while looking for an entrance, I finally looked up how to enter

Spoiler:

the beehive

I'm glad I did because I don't think I ever would have figured out how to get in there on my own.

Chaz wrote:

I swear I explored everywhere else I could, and this seems to be the only place I can go that doesn't require a movement ability I haven't gotten yet. I think I've bought most of the charms and notches that are available, but maybe I haven't.

I dunno, the last time or two I've been playing this, it's actively made me feel bad and bad about myself, so my motivation for going back in is real low.

Hang in there. I really had to put some more emphasis on slowing down, learning his patterns, and dodging, before I was able to beat that guy. He's pretty challenging.

How is Hollow Knight for less skilled gamers? Is there an Easy mode?

Hi, I'm a less skilled gamer!

It's hard, and there's no easy mode. I did manage to get past the boss I was complaining about above, but I was about one attempt from walking away from the game completely. It requires some memorization from the player in ways that are frustrating me. Namely, when you find a new area, there's no map until you find a certain vendor within the area, which leads me to wander in circles a lot. It also requires you to buy map upgrades to allow markers to appear for different things like vendors, and once added, it doesn't tell you what the different vendor icons are. Right now, I've got money, but it's frustrating to make my way back to one of the vendors, only to find out it's not the one I thought it was.

That said, it's probably more forgiving than the Souls games. Early on, you get the ability to trade mana for health, and you refill mana by hitting enemies, so a lot of times, you can keep your health topped up during normal exploration.

Now that I'm past what I'm told is one of the harder bosses in the game, I'm giving it more time, but I'm also on that borderline where if I hit another difficulty spike, I'm probably done. But I've also gotten a good 12 hours out of it so far, so I feel like I've gotten my money's worth.

Thanks Chaz - I was considering it with my wife in mind, but it sounds like it'll fall on the frustrating side of the spectrum for her.

Quite possibly. It's definitely not kidding around. If you're looking for that style of gameplay, but much friendlier and more accessible, check out Steamworld Dig 2 if you haven't. It's doing a lot of the same things Hollow Knight is, but feels more like an encouraging parent that just wants you to succeed and have a good time. Hollow Knight frequently feels like a tough love parent that wants you to learn that the world is a harsh and cruel place, so keeps pushing you over so you learn to get up.

Chaz wrote:

Quite possibly. It's definitely not kidding around. If you're looking for that style of gameplay, but much friendlier and more accessible, check out Steamworld Dig 2 if you haven't. It's doing a lot of the same things Hollow Knight is, but feels more like an encouraging parent that just wants you to succeed and have a good time. Hollow Knight frequently feels like a tough love parent that wants you to learn that the world is a harsh and cruel place, so keeps pushing you over so you learn to get up.

Excellent pick. You've basically just described his'n'hers videogames for Chez Jonman.

I enjoyed both the Steamworld Dig's, but I approached them both as "easy zoneout" games instead of "challenge-to-be-overcome" games.

Chaz wrote:

Quite possibly. It's definitely not kidding around. If you're looking for that style of gameplay, but much friendlier and more accessible, check out Steamworld Dig 2 if you haven't. It's doing a lot of the same things Hollow Knight is, but feels more like an encouraging parent that just wants you to succeed and have a good time. Hollow Knight frequently feels like a tough love parent that wants you to learn that the world is a harsh and cruel place, so keeps pushing you over so you learn to get up.

I agree. The most difficult parts of Hollow Knight are optional, but the mandatory stuff can still be pretty tough. This is amplified by how the difficulty is spread out between combat, platforming, and exploration. You can be good at two facets and still get hung up on the third.

This difficulty balance is absolutely perfect for someone like me, as it ensures that every element of the game remains engaging at all times, but it makes it tough to recommend for anyone turned off by a challenge. This game gets tough.

Although, I would add that Hollow Knight has been an "easy zoneout" game for more than half of my total playtime while exploring and figuring out what to do next. It's not always cranked up to 11.

All of the talk about how good this is on the Switch is making me want to get it (even though I just have a laptop to work off of.) Unsurprisingly, it also really makes me want a Switch.

I picked this up on Switch over the weekend and am really enjoying it so far. I am Bad at Games, so I was a bit wary, but so far I'm not feeling too incompetent. I beat the first boss after probably 4-5 tries and am starting to get a feel for the platforming and the tricky way your attacks slightly repel you. I'm making my way through the second area (or at least my second area, anyway), and am very interested to see what happens when I start unlocking new movement abilities. I've got a vacation coming up in a week and a half or so and am psyched to dive into this.