Depression is ruining my life.

"Reflective listening" is a good technique to look at.

Reflective listening is a communication strategy involving two key steps: seeking to understand a speaker's idea, then offering the idea back to the speaker, to confirm the idea has been understood correctly.

Have a Google, and see if you can use any of the tips or strategies it offers.

KEY IMPORTANCE:
You're not trying to solve the person's problems, just listening, and reflecting back what you're hearing so they feel they are being heard.

IANAD, YMMV, etc.

Also, on a personal note, thank you for trying to help and understand your partner, rather than chastise and blame them. I would take a lot from that.

Question for anyone who has dealt with this:

Why bother? I grew up very Christian and that satisfied me until College. In a very cliche way, I lost faith in the myths and stories of religion. But have not found any solace in science. Science tells me the universe doesn't give a sh*t about me. So why carry on? In the face of the big D's. Depression, disappointment, despair, disillusionment, disappointment. Has anyone found a way forward?

Lifelong atheist here, so but exactly gone through the same thing...

But, as someone who never had the solace of religion in the first place, meaning has always come from the people around me.

Religion tells you to love God. In his absence, love people instead. That's where the meaning is. Love your family, love your friends, love your coworkers, neighbors, even strangers on the street.

Honestly, it's not that different from Jesus' teachings anyway, it's just that atheism approaches it as intrinsically valuable, instead of the extrinsic value of doing it because God told you to.

My perspective on this is that if you believe that you carry on because this is it. There’s no afterlife. This isn’t a dress rehearsal. This is the one chance you get to experience what you want to experience out of life.

I haven’t dealt with near constant depression, so please forgive me if I sound like I’m being trite. I don’t mean to. I’ve mostly dealt with long term anxiety, intermittent depression and bouts of crippling nerve pain that put me on the edge.

Each time what pulled me back was the hope of enjoying more time with family I love. More time with friends. More time with the good people. More time and see how I go from there. The good experiences I might have. The travel I might take. The things I might see or do. The people I might love or help.

Once again, I don’t have the chronic, chemical, nothing touches it kind of depression. So take what I’m saying with a grain of salt. But what got me through bad times was the possibility of experiences I could still have before it was all over anyway and the connections I could make or keep.

Eventually it all ends anyway, why not play out the string? Become a beach bum, travel the world with nothing but a backpack of clothes, throw yourself into love and hope for the best. If it all ends the same way why not do the best you can to enjoy it while you’re here?

Jonman wrote:

Lifelong atheist here, so but exactly gone through the same thing...

But, as someone who never had the solace of religion in the first place, meaning has always come from the people around me.

Religion tells you to love God. In his absence, love people instead. That's where the meaning is. Love your family, love your friends, love your coworkers, neighbors, even strangers on the street.

Honestly, it's not that different from Jesus' teachings anyway, it's just that atheism approaches it as intrinsically valuable, instead of the extrinsic value of doing it because God told you to.

I totally get that. Totally appreciate it. I understand how that's powerful. But...But...haha. like a toddler who is just learning to ask "why." Why do people matter? Religion got me thinking that there should be something metaphysical, something extra-human. Why are we so special? I know why humans consider their own lives as important. But what is beyond that? Our big brains make us rise above our stature as animals. But what is the proof that we really are above animals?

Again. Very cliche. Very 7th grade emo. But I just can't shake it. I continue to read lots of books that try to address it. This man blog article speaks to me.

It's very ironic. Suppose I believe in an eternal being that created the Universe. Well, what created it? And what created that? It must certainly be a problem with our brains. We want to know first principles when there really aren't any what we can know.

Religion and science, for me, aren't the same choice. I enjoy science (physics probably significantly more than the others), but I wouldn't use it to replace religion. I'm religiously anti-religious though, due to my very heavy-handed Christian upbringing that I never really believed in. This created friction between my mother and I until I told her that I couldn't just live a good life because I thought some invisible guy was up there with a karmic abacus tallying up my deeds, but instead I wanted to live a good life for the sake of doing it. I want to go to bed each night thinking that I did good in the world, and those around me are better for it. She has, for the most part, left me alone about it except for the occasional "I'll pray for you anyway" snipe that I can ignore.

Douglas Adams once said, "Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?" You don't need religion telling you that there is something metaphysical making the garden beautiful, but you also don't need to know anything remotely scientific about it either. Enjoy the garden in the way that makes you happy. Enjoy the garden because it exists, and is pleasing to the senses. Don't look for external reasons to like something, but identify those things within yourself that calls to you.

Science doesn’t replace religion, but I think there’s a lot of wonder to the world being one giant accident, personally. I lost my faith in college and it increased my sense of wonder for the world.

“You mean all of this just happened? By chance?”

It’s incredible.

It is a larger leap of faith to believe that everything just happened randomly for no reason than to believe that life was designed for a purpose. Perhaps you are in the process of being called back to your faith. Faith isn't just something we have or not have, but also a journey, and not always an easy one.

However, I do agree with Jonman about loving others. When we spend our time caring for and loving and serving other people, we are at the same time caring for and loving and serving ourselves...and God for that matter. "Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me" (Matthew 25:40, 45, NIV)

Edit: Just listened to a sermon by Adam Hamilton on this topic and thought I'd share the link here as perhaps it could be of some help from a faith perspective. It's part of a sermon series called Searching for Truth and the title is Is there a God?

Is there a God?

Indeed. After my mom passed away I started praying every night. I still don’t know who I’m praying to. I just like to say thanks for the good things I still have and the people I still have for the time I have them.

While science may say the world doesn’t care, it doesn’t speak to the individual caring of those around us. Personally, I believe in a God. But that has never eased my depression. What eases it more is the caring of the tangible people around me. Hard to feel while in the darkness, but even a memory and a hope of caring helps me get through without destroying it all instead.

Whether this is all there is or there is another realm of life after, Jonman’s thoughts on loving are probably the best. Leaving a mark of good behind.

bekkilyn wrote:

It is a larger leap of faith to believe that everything just happened randomly for no reason than to believe that life was designed for a purpose.

From where you're sitting, maybe, but I couldn't disagree more. Omnipotence is a much heavier lift than randomness, epistemologically. Belief in a supreme being requires many more leaps of faith (literally) than accepting that you can't predict a dice roll and then extrapolating that out a few thousand orders of magnitude.

Montalban wrote:

Why are we so special? I know why humans consider their own lives as important. But what is beyond that?

We're not, and nothing, respectively.

Honestly, I find those facts freeing, not worrying. I'm not special, you're not special, very little we do matters, so I don't have to worry about it. It frees me up to focus on the things close to me, where my actions do matter.

Montalban wrote:

I totally get that. Totally appreciate it. I understand how that's powerful. But...But...haha. like a toddler who is just learning to ask "why." Why do people matter? Religion got me thinking that there should be something metaphysical, something extra-human. Why are we so special? I know why humans consider their own lives as important. But what is beyond that? Our big brains make us rise above our stature as animals. But what is the proof that we really are above animals?

Again. Very cliche. Very 7th grade emo. But I just can't shake it. I continue to read lots of books that try to address it. This man blog article speaks to me.

It's very ironic. Suppose I believe in an eternal being that created the Universe. Well, what created it? And what created that? It must certainly be a problem with our brains. We want to know first principles when there really aren't any what we can know.

Man, you're into some really exciting lines of inquiry. I know it's also kind of scary to ask "Why go on? Why do all this?" I've definitely been through that ringer a few times. Alan Watts is a good one to search on Youtube, his lectures track through all kinds of these questions.

Here's a couple:

The world is nonsense

If you have some time, here's a nice long one

When did this become the existential dread thread?

Hi. I just wanted to add my bit to this conversation.

I’m an atheist, who suffers from depression. But more specifically, I’m a Secular Humanist.

I have pretty similar views as Jonman. There is no god. There is no afterlife. This is it. Right now. There will be no divine intervention. Humanity has to carry itself.

So, if this is it. If we get one ride on this merry go round, and then it’s over. We have to make THIS world the best it can be. Which is a job that’s way too big for one person. I’m just one person. All I can do, is try my best, to do my part, in making the world a great place.

I’ve started to volunteer my time to a small social action group. The goal of this group is to help lift up the most downtrodden sector of our local community. I’m sticking it to THE MAN. By helping people who are in a crisis. It feels good.

Thanks all, and sorry to derail the thread. I posted that last one 3 days ago and immediately regretted it, and was literally scared to return here. Because I felt like I had parachuted in, dropped an angst bomb, and flew away.

So for everyone, every one, that responded, I really thank you. (*I won't name you because see below) And I apologize because these thoughts are the particular mood that my brain weasels get me. They go straight for the throat. "None of this matters. So why bother?"

I know each of us have their particular depressive thought flavors. It might be about relationships, or personal worth, or inadequacy, etc. etc. For me it's the existential dread. Fun stuff.

*These thoughts are my brain weasels. Don't you often debate whether (1) I should say these things to other people so that I can get them off my chest and feel better or (2) I know these thoughts are bullsh*t negativity so why share them with the rest of the world? It only lends them more power than they deserve. It's painful to have them but also painful to share them. Because f*ck them. Right?

Anyway, just to close the loop, here are my spoilered and possibly triggering explanations for these thoughts, that seem to make them so Checkmate powerful:

On second thought, I'm just going to cut and paste what I just wrote into my personal journal and bring it up with someone in person. It's really toxic. Just picture the most nihilistic stereotypical response possible and that's it.

NSWF language

I need some advice. I have a friend (we'll call her J), who I've known for a LONG time. I grew up an army brat, and joined the navy right after high school, so I don't have many friends that I've known longer than ten years or so. J is one of them. I owe her a LOT. I moved to Tennessee my senior year of high school, and was angry and bitter about it. She went out of her way to befriend me, to introduce me to people she knew I'd like, and spent a good chunk of our senior year helping me find my way back to okay. We kept in touch when I joined the navy, and reconnected three days after I was laid off from my job after my company went bankrupt. She encouraged me to apply at her company, fought for me to get a job there, and we worked side by side for four years. She is easily one of the most loyal, devoted friends I've ever had.

She's also KILLING me emotionally.

J is an extremely negative person. She complains constantly, about work, money, friends, relationships, everything. One of the reasons I felt it was time to leave my last job was that sitting next to someone who was that vocally bitter all day was draining. When I announced that I was leaving my last job, she sobbed in the morning meeting, and began bombarding me with memes and texts about how miserable she was going to be without me there. She offered to plan a going away party for me, which I thought was nice, until she announced that it was going to be a karaoke party at which she was going to sing a playlist of songs about how much I sucked. My wife found out about that, and shut it down before it ever got started, and had some harsh words for her.

I had hoped that the drama and stress with J would end once I changed jobs. It hasn't. She's part of a gaming group, and her behavior in the last few weeks I was at my last job angered everyone else there (extremely bitter posts on social media about my departure were a daily occurrence). As they began to distance themselves from her, she's lashed out, even accusing one of them of ghosting her because she didn't want to sleep with him. At one point, she demanded that I cut off another friend of mine because she didn't like how he reacted to her behavior. Every day, I still get multiple text messages from her complaining about work, our friends, her relationship, etc. It's unrelenting and exhausting.

I know this is a toxic relationship. But I owe J a huge amount, and I don't want to blow up our friendship. In addition, she sits on a board of directors for a nonprofit with me, she works with a lot of people I still consider friends, and I worry about the effect of my bailing on her on her mental health. I don't know what to do, and was hoping the GWJ brain trust could help me figure that out.

trichy wrote:

I need some advice. I have a friend (we'll call her J), who I've known for a LONG time. I grew up an army brat, and joined the navy right after high school, so I don't have many friends that I've known longer than ten years or so. J is one of them. I owe her a LOT. I moved to Tennessee my senior year of high school, and was angry and bitter about it. She went out of her way to befriend me, to introduce me to people she knew I'd like, and spent a good chunk of our senior year helping me find my way back to okay. We kept in touch when I joined the navy, and reconnected three days after I was laid off from my job after my company went bankrupt. She encouraged me to apply at her company, fought for me to get a job there, and we worked side by side for four years. She is easily one of the most loyal, devoted friends I've ever had.

She's also KILLING me emotionally.

J is an extremely negative person. She complains constantly, about work, money, friends, relationships, everything. One of the reasons I felt it was time to leave my last job was that sitting next to someone who was that vocally bitter all day was draining. When I announced that I was leaving my last job, she sobbed in the morning meeting, and began bombarding me with memes and texts about how miserable she was going to be without me there. She offered to plan a going away party for me, which I thought was nice, until she announced that it was going to be a karaoke party at which she was going to sing a playlist of songs about how much I sucked. My wife found out about that, and shut it down before it ever got started, and had some harsh words for her.

I had hoped that the drama and stress with J would end once I changed jobs. It hasn't. She's part of a gaming group, and her behavior in the last few weeks I was at my last job angered everyone else there (extremely bitter posts on social media about my departure were a daily occurrence). As they began to distance themselves from her, she's lashed out, even accusing one of them of ghosting her because she didn't want to sleep with him. At one point, she demanded that I cut off another friend of mine because she didn't like how he reacted to her behavior. Every day, I still get multiple text messages from her complaining about work, our friends, her relationship, etc. It's unrelenting and exhausting.

I know this is a toxic relationship. But I owe J a huge amount, and I don't want to blow up our friendship. In addition, she sits on a board of directors for a nonprofit with me, she works with a lot of people I still consider friends, and I worry about the effect of my bailing on her on her mental health. I don't know what to do, and was hoping the GWJ brain trust could help me figure that out.

It sounds like you already know what you should do, but are worried about doing it.

Cut off ties with her. Be firm, but as polite as possible. She's going to get very pissed at you, so know that going in and prepare for it. Maybe don't check social media for a week or two. It will pass.

Maybe she doesn’t realize that she’s being so unrelentingly negative. Or maybe she doesn’t think it’s bad/serious/for-realsies. Have you talked to her about it, gently to start? “Hey man, you ok? You’ve seemed a little down lately and it’s coming out as some serious negative energy.” or whatever. IANAT, so take that for what free advice is worth.

I'd try talking first, but it might be bad enough you have to cut her off until she's able to have a healthy friendship again.

People change, so does friendship.

Just say you are the one who has changed, and don't like her negative attitude anymore - where in the past you probably tought it as funny and sharp.

Cry, and move on...

Trichy, that’s a tough position. There’s a lot of sentiment and affection and gratitude wrapped up in a challenging relationship. It’s not easy. It’s true that you don’t owe future friendship because of past deeds, but I wonder if there’s a middle road where you can maintain a friendship while easing some of the emotional investment/toll. Taking it from good friend and listening ear to a more casual friendship.

There’s no rule that you have to read and respond to every text. I don’t mean ghosting her, but just picking when you read and when you respond based on your internal levels.

Another option would be to have a conversation and let her know that for a while you don’t have the reserves to be a listening ear beyond a certain level. I don’t know how that would go based on your description.

Stengah wrote:

I'd try talking first, but it might be bad enough you have to cut her off until she's able to have a healthy friendship again.

Agreed. At least try talking. Sometimes people don't realize their behavior.

And getting cut off from a friend with no explanation sucks, from the other side.

Had a sore throat and aching chest for the past month, went to the doctor today and the answer was "there's nothing I can do about that, it will work itself out in another week". So now I get to drag myself through work for the next two days, in a job where I'm talking all day long. Awesome.

Starting some full on training for work in two weeks time, where I can't miss a single day otherwise I'll get pulled from the group. This means I'm locked in to this awful place where I live until that and the post training month is over as well. I was all but ready to give up on looking for a 1Br place before as it would be too much of a financial risk, but after the training is done we get a very marginal pay increase, so my own place is back on the table.

I need to be doing the budgeting for that and working the money out but being sick for so long has sapped me of any ability to do that. I'm fresh out of patience for people telling me to be positive. Because I'm trying so hard and I still end up with a life that sucks. I'm positive enough knowing there is light at the end of the tunnel if I can make it past this training and into a new place. I'd like to invite all the people giving unsolicited bad advice (have you tried spirulina and hemp seed?) to bear all the worst parts of sticking it out in this place for me.

I found out recently that any time you cook, the house retains all off the cooking smell even when using the exhaust fan. The filter on said exhaust isn't clogged, but all the parts further up are covered in grease. So cooking with the window open in the cold it is. There's a big bowl of seafood bits in the fridge that's been there for days that makes me feel ill when I look at it. And a hundred other face palm things like that. Woe is me, grumble grumble etc.

Edit, spoilered for language,

Spoiler:

Whoever designed and made gas stoves where you have to turn it all the way through High to turn it off can get f*cking f*cked.

I hear you on the "here and now" getting in the way of the long term MP.

I've got the same issues right now. Torn cartilage in my right knee, can't sleep because of the pain, anti inflammatory medication is ripping through my guts and has been for the last 7 weeks...

But I do have my appointment with the surgeon next month... Which is better than the 12 months I was originally looking at.

Training sounds good, especially if it pays off in the pay packet. Fingers crossed for you with the 1brm option panning out.

Hey Trichy,

That's a tough one but I figured I'd put down my two cents because I've been there and I have a slightly different take than everyone else.

First off, if you are worried about damaging mutual relationships - especially professional ones - don't be. Yes, there is always a danger that an emotionally unstable person might try to trash talk you to colleagues or put you down in subtle ways. 99% of the time though, when someone does that they often make themselves look worse than you - especially if your house is clean. Most stable people tend to trust their own judgments. They'll note someone doesn't like you all of sudden, but unless you do something to harm them or they have some weird issue they were looking for an excuse to express, your relationship won't change.

I also don't think you need to talk to J. You can, but you can also control the depth and detail of the conversation.

Take your space. A reasonable person who cares about the relationship will come to you at some point trying to suss out what's up and you can simply say "I'm taking some space right now, and I can't see you. It is important to me that you respect this boundary and I'll be in touch when I'm ready." They might ask why and then you have the power to answer however you want.

"I'm a little upset at how you handled [x.] I don't want to hash it out now, so I'm going to take some space. I'm not trying to be mean, I'm just trying to put out what I need. I hope you can respect that."

Or say nothing concrete and go with "I just need some space right now and I hope that you can respect that. We'll talk later when I'm ready."

Or the reverse of that with... "[Detailed list of grievances and how they made you feel.] I don't want you to respond to any of that, I just wanted to let you know why I'm where I am. I need you to respect this boundary and I'll be in touch when I am ready."

I find reiterating the boundary to be a good strategy. If they do care they will respect the boundary and then you can talk later (if you want.) If they don't care, they will attempt to violate the boundary, and that's useful to know and can inform how you want to deal with them going forward. Since you have a somewhat intertwined life you can also be respectful and polite in person during non-profit meetings and basically give J every opportunity to respect your boundaries. Most importantly, act as if J is going to respect your wishes. I think this is a big thing that lots of people don't do. Once we have emotional stakes and history with someone, we act from knowledge of how they are rather than hope for what we'd like them to be. When we treat them as if we expect them to understand and at least hear our needs - if they historically suck at that sort of thing - we give them an opportunity to rise to the occasion. They might not consciously notice that, but I think it effects people. Because you are modeling trust. You are also modeling what a good relationship is - a series of communicated needs and boundaries between two parties.

IMAGE(https://i.imgur.com/PEMhyaP.jpg)

New shirt by the lovely and talented pyxistyx.

(You can buy your own here)

Even if it doesn't specifically cure depression, I do agree that ice cream solves so many problems.

It turned out that answers to my problems were not, in fact, at the bottom of that half litre of vanilla caramel fudge but the important thing is that I tried.

If you stare into the bucket of cocoa crunch ice cream, the bucket of cocoa crunch ice cream also stares into you.

Gang I need a bit of an emotional life jacket here.

I think I offended a co-worker over what I thought was a trivial thing (having to do with the bottled water fund, and if I paid that month). She told the group today that after 14 years of doing it she was no longer going to manage the fund. Not that I am expecting her to change her mind but I attempted to apologize and she brushed it off curtly and now I feel like sh*t. Yes rationally I know it's not a huge thing... and presumably she was just getting tired of doing it anyway but the fact that I made a thoughtless comment that apparently made up her mind is making me physically ill. Given my social anxiety, blunders like this turn into gigantic weights especially if I think someone else remains upset. I need to pull out of it somehow so I can function rather than hide in my office while considering the possibility of puking on my desk.