You and your relationship with game guides

I recently completed Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild. In the forum thread, I expressed how it totally made me reflect on I play games and made me realise that I'd gotten to a point where I just wasn't exploring and having fun, rather turning to a guide the minute I felt like I wasn't on the right track or getting frustrated. The latest Zelda games pretty much leaves you to your own devices and doesn't give you a check list of things to go search out like many open world games do.

The first time this happened, I almost immediately got a bit intimidated and went straight to look at a guide online to see where I was "supposed" to go. It almost instantly clicked with me that I'd been doing this all too often lately - the new Zelda was a chance for me to totally change that and take the game in a different way. And for that, I had a great time playing it and wasn't even bothered about things I may have missed. I have a friend who was using a guide to find all the shrines and Korok seeds in the world, and it made me so glad that I didn't go down that route, as actually carving my own way felt so much more rewarding.

I wouldn't say the time I've spent looking at guides for some games has made me waste my time with them, but it does make me feel some regret that I could've really spent my time with them a bit better. Dishonored and Hitman Bloody Money come to mind as two games where I would constantly just watch guide videos of how to complete missions, and it makes me feel like I've totally missed the fun and the point of those games (luckily I've got Dishonored 2 ready to play to rectify one of them!)

I can't say why it is that I got to a point where I'd just immediately use a guide for most story based games. There's a certain fear or missing out involved, as well as the relative ease today of finding out pretty much everything within every game. On top of that, finite time and wanting to play more games means I'm sometimes a bit over-keen to complete something (I try to see through the main story of pretty much every game I play).

I'd say that from now on, I'm in a much better mind frame to just limit the amount of times I use a guide, and really want to start just playing games my way rather than treating it like there's a "proper way to do it" (if that makes sense!) I don't think I'll entirely stop using them though. Sometimes I just really am stuck in games, I was playing Metroid on 3DS not too long ago and I just had absolutely no idea about where I was supposed to go. I spent ages just trying to figure it out and couldn't get it. I put the game down and want to get back into it, so feel like just looking quickly at the guide to get myself back on track and set me on my way isn't too big a deal.

How often do you use game guides? Do you have any regrets about using them too much or possibly using them and seeing particular spoilers? Are there any games you've used a guide for that you wish you hadn't?

I use them whenever I feel like it. No regrets.

IMHO the advent youtube and related places for storing this sort of thing is the best thing to ever happen to video games.

My love of Final Fantasy dovetailed into a love of Brady Games guides. It's not agape love, though. The guide for FFIX angered me so much I didn't buy it. But I wouldn't have gotten through FFVII without it, I think. That game made me a hardcore gamer (there's a little story there) and I couldn't have finished it if I didn't steal a friend's guide (he never came back for it). It's the duct taped spine btw.

IMAGE(https://i.imgur.com/cvujqhV.jpg)

Youtube has enabled me to keep my nose out of guides for games I don't want spoiled or that change. I get stuck in a spot, check youtube. I want to run a Witch Doctor, check youtube. But for the FF series, part of the system, or ritual if you will, is heading to a game store, buying the game and the guide, and reading the intro stuff before diving in. I love the artwork, I love the info, and I love the sense of anticipation to actually playing the game. It also helps me skip tutorials.

psu_13 wrote:

I use them whenever I feel like it. No regrets.

IMHO the advent youtube and related places for storing this sort of thing is the best thing to ever happen to video games.

I’m of the same opinion as Psu_13, except that I prefer written guides to video guides. Simply because they’re easier to preload on my iPad and use if I’m out and about and don’t have WiFi (which doesn’t happen often though).
I have zero qualms in using a guide. Absolutely none. If anything, I would argue that it significantly improves my enjoyment of games (particularly adventure games which can have obscure puzzles).

I almost never use guides. I find that it spoils games for me. A great deal of most games is about you engaging with them directly, using only the knowledge it provides you. That's how the experience is delivered, so getting additional information is often counterproductive. I'll use online games for pieces that have bad documentation.

The latest two games I played were HZD and Monster Hunter. I used guides for neither of them. MHW is good enough that you can play it and understand most of its systems without online references.

Well sure, HZD qnd Monster Hunter don't really require guides. I think it really depends on the game. I play a lot of visual novels and adventure games. Guides practically come bundled into the game (Thimbleweed Park even had a good old hint line embedded in the game).
I've been playing Mass Effect, and before that, the Elder Scrolls games and The Witcher 3. Don't need a guide for those, unless you're going for a specific outcome on your nth playthrough.
Guild Wars 2 is another game that doesn't require a guide, because it's so rich and so well built, shepherding you from one area to the next, one event to the next, all while giving you the freedom to do whatever. Unless you change gears into elite mode and go for something specific, like a legendary weapon.

First of all Grenn, that X-Wing Collector's CD-ROM guide brings me back. What a 90's artifact!

These days I get very few guides, but it more often for the art. I'm currently playing Guid Wars 2, and I ran across a strategy guide from the release of the game 6 years ago. As an MMO, I know the information would be way out of date, but I got it for the art and lore. Printed guides are also a way to take a tour back through favorite games. I don't have many guides on my shelf, but they are pleasant to look though.

I still collect and read retro game guides, but I only buy modern game guides if the design is really special and limited ala the special edition BotW guide. I also turn off HUDs and minimaps as much as possible. The current trend of constant bread crumbs and auto hints appearing the second something is challenging really takes the fun and agency out of games for me. It’s probably one reason I generally prefer older games to newer ones these days.

I try to avoid guides, generally speaking. I've been making a point of avoiding guides while playing Hollow Knight, which has really improved my experience. Exploring the world is a lot more fun when you don't know what's coming next.

I think I probably defer to guides when the goal/objective is too obtuse, which is frustrating. For example, I recently had to look up something in Rune Factory 4. Turns out I needed to talk to a named character first, then a random, normally unimportant background character in order to open an unrelated, previously blocked path. And that's probably also why I like the idea of games like point 'n' click games more than actually playing them.

Aristophan wrote:

These days I get very few guides, but it more often for the art. I'm currently playing Guid Wars 2, and I ran across a strategy guide from the release of the game 6 years ago. As an MMO, I know the information would be way out of date, but I got it for the art and lore. Printed guides are also a way to take a tour back through favorite games. I don't have many guides on my shelf, but they are pleasant to look though.

Ooooh, which one did you get? The good news is that the lore won’t have changed though you might be missing the newer bits from the later living stories.
If you want more up to date info, Dulfy has a great website (last I checked).

Like Grenn, and I'm sure many others, I've got as certain nostalgia for guides because Final Fantasy games (and many other RPGs of the PS1/PS2 era) were notorious for hiding valuable content or upgrades. I think I enjoy the "feeling" of a good book in my hands or at my side; and my bookshelf of guides is quite a shelf of memories to browse. (On the downside, I'm becoming more conscious of the waste of paper.)

These days, the value of guides varies wildly; the type of game (whether much content is "hidden," and how well it explains its systems), the quality of guide writing, and (with patches) the ongoing accuracy of the guide makes a big difference. I'm also one of those folks who enjoys art, interviews, etc; not everyone cares, I know.

I frequently find myself digging into strategies and appendices for ideas I might miss or to more accurately weigh weapons, tactics, upgrade/skill trees, etc. Some guides have statistics or formulas that aren't available in-game; only an official guide writer with access to the development team has that info. Even if it is in-game, a well-laid-out chart can help you digest information. Sometimes I find a playstyle I'd ignored that brightens the game for me.

I rarely use a walkthrough, but sometimes I enjoy going back and reading it for a section I've already completed, to find out if there might have been another way or something I missed. If I replay a game a second time, this gives me something new to try or look for. Of course it's nice if you get stuck, too; but that's increasingly rare in modern games.

For me, the fun of a game is in exploration and discovery, and using a guide pretty much nullifies that entirely, so I avoid them except for "f*ck it" moments, when I get stuck in a game and just want to get past the sticking point.

Which means that guide books just ain't for me, but an online walkthrough is a useful tool for getting over a hump.

Jonman wrote:

For me, the fun of a game is in exploration and discovery, and using a guide pretty much nullifies that entirely, so I avoid them except for "f*ck it" moments, when I get stuck in a game and just want to get past the sticking point.

Which means that guide books just ain't for me, but an online walkthrough is a useful tool for getting over a hump.

This is my approach. I try to avoid looking at tips and hints unless I need a nudge to get past a hump. Typically if I can't find something that I probably overlooked and don't want to backtrack over a ton of area.

The best game guide I ever read was the one for Shadowbane.
Except the game didn't even remotely live up to the text.

Other than that, games guides are almost always obsolete before they are printed or as they are written. So I am not a fan

edit: unless we are talking web game guides which are extremely valuable. Notable examples are Wowhead and Alakhazam's back in the EQ hay-day. The ones for Icewind Dale were good too!

I used to get them all the time. I enjoyed looking at the art, and I liked having a reference if I got stuck or wanted to find the last few collectibles, sweet weapon, etc. But, for the most part I can find most of the former and all of the latter online.

If I'm stuck in a game that I was enjoying to the point where I'm not enjoying it, I've got no problems looking up the solution to whatever I'm stuck on. If I'm stuck enough that I'm getting frustrated, the "take a break and come back later" thing doesn't work because I remember "last time I played this I was stuck, and have no clue what to do, so playing again will just make me frustrated", and that can easily make me not ever go back.

If I bash at something for a while, run out of ideas of how to proceed, I've got no problem finding the solution and moving on. Doubly so if it's a thing where maybe I could figure it out, but taking a stab at it involves a lot of backtracking or wandering around.

Most times, I close the guide after I get unstuck. I almost never play through a game with a guide open alongside. Yeah, maybe it "cheapens" it, or "robs me of the feeling of figuring it out on my own", but if the choice is between missing out on that feeling and getting to keep playing, or potentially quitting out of the game forever, I'll take the guide. But if I keep getting frustrated and needing to go to a guide, I will bail completely. I call this The Witness Syndrome, where the solutions were so "game dev logic" or the puzzle restrictions so arbitrary that I wasn't having any fun even trying to figure them out.

I found a guide bolstered my enjoyment of Warcraft 3. Yet not Fallout 4. Both guides are well detailed, and beautifully illustrated. The wrinkle came from how I enjoyed each game. One was understanding, and planning ahead. Tactical. The other was exploration, and discovery. Surprise and wonder. The former was enhanced by a guide. The latter lost some of its appeal and its impact through a guide.

Some genres, as Eleima touched upon, may not necessarily benefit from the mystery being revealed. Everyone is different, though.

I needed a guide for Chrono Trigger, and Phantasy Star. I'd have liked to roll with it but my momentum came to a halt and aid was required to get moving again.

Some games I refused to seek aid. The thought was unwelcome. Demon's Souls. Bloodborne. Breath of the Wild. Horizon Zero Dawn. The enjoyment there, for me, was in the discovery, the learning process, the different approaches, and the challenge. I needed to best it, on my own.

So, a bit from column a, and a little from column b, for me, it seems.

Eleima wrote:
Aristophan wrote:

These days I get very few guides, but it more often for the art. I'm currently playing Guid Wars 2, and I ran across a strategy guide from the release of the game 6 years ago. As an MMO, I know the information would be way out of date, but I got it for the art and lore. Printed guides are also a way to take a tour back through favorite games. I don't have many guides on my shelf, but they are pleasant to look though.

Ooooh, which one did you get? The good news is that the lore won’t have changed though you might be missing the newer bits from the later living stories.
If you want more up to date info, Dulfy has a great website (last I checked).

It's the hardcover "Guild Wars 2 Official Strategy Guide" by BradyGAMES from 2012. The lore at the beginning helped explain some of the back story (like who Destin'y Edge is), and how it linked to the original Guild Wars (which I played for a bit a long long time ago).

My kids have loved the Skyrim printed game guide. They used it so much, we had to buy a new one. For them, the guide helped them find all the things they could do in that massive game.

I think it depends on what you mean by "guide" to some extent. For things like proper game guides, I do use them if i get stuck or can't quite see where I'm supposed to be going next. I do that sparingly at first, but if I complete a game once I tend to use them much more heavily if I decide to do a second playthrough, to see what I might have missed first time round.

What I have found myself doing increasingly over the years is watching YouTube "Let's Play" series for games I'm interested in but not sure about. Thing is, they end up being guides in a lot of cases, and there is no way I would every have got into those games if I'd not watched those YouTube videos. The original All Hail Blorg series that Paradox did in the run up to the Stellaris release date is one series that, if I had not watched it I probably would have crashed and burned against Stellaris's interface much like I did with Crusader Kings 2.

The other would be Xwynn's Long War 2 series (at the 1.2 release) for XCOM2. Without watching that series I would never have really got my head around how LW2 worked, what the changes were and just how different it was to vanilla XCOM2. I can guarantee I would not have had a successful campaign without that series. Similarly I watched a series for Surviving Mars, which got me a much better understanding of the game's mechanics, and increased my enjoyment when building my colonies.

I'm much more inclined to watch them now - Battletech being the game I've lately checked out since the embargo was lifted - to get a feel for a game I'm interested in but not sure about. More than anything else I find they give me a feel for the interface and basic understanding of how a game works, so I tend to find starting them considerably less daunting. It doesn't decrease my enjoyment of playing the game either - if anything, it makes me much more likely to finish a game and get maximum enjoyment out of it.

Now that I'm playing Bloodborne, I'm reminded of when I like to use a guide. I don't like the aspect of the souls games of guessing (or trial and error) what type of damage bosses deal and are weak to? I find that part tedious. It's one of the few games I will use a guide for because I don't want to just randomly try weapons until I find the best one. I just like to focus on trying to work on my movement and moments to attack.

You and your relationship with game guides

Conflicted and angry.

I just cleared out a bunch of old game guides when I moved and realized I wasn’t getting much value as a collector. That being said, I like the massive RPG ones that give a lot of lore and context.

They are also helpful if you are playing a game with side quests. When going to a new area, I will sneak a peek at hidden quests or locations just so I can prioritize what to do. I won’t read specifics to avoid too many spoilers.

Game guides are also great for times you can’t play or if you’re trying to reorient yourself after not playing for awhile.

No regrets.

I think about all the work that goes into some of the larger RPG games and all the content I miss by just going through them on my own. I feel like guides help me appreciate what else is in the game that I would likely have missed by just doing my objectives and following the story. Even Side Missions don't always cover all the secrets.

Why didn't I buy that Fallout 2 guide when I had the chance.

I never use paper guides. Haven't since FFX-2, which I bought the guide for for some reason.

I do use youtube and internet guides to find obscure stuff in games or when I get frustrated. I'm old and have very little patience for trial and error gameplay, so I don't regret looking up the location of a hard to find item or the solution to a puzzle if it's annoying me.

HDZ is a good example. I did most of the game with no guide, but got stuck on the quest for the fancy armor, so I looked up the solution to that. I also looked up how to get a couple of trophies since I was trying to get the platinum.

I started using guides much earlier in my Nier playthrough, since things like weapon upgrades are so obscure in that game.

TLDR: No guides until I get frustrated, then I'm all for it.

I actually learned the D&D rules 2nd edition, and how to play CRPG's in general from a game guide. Back then, the Belgian game mag I used to read published a special summer edition full of walkthroughs. I just followed the guide when playing Baldur's Gate, and probably wouldn't have made it all the way through without it. After that, for the other Infinity Engine RPG's I used guides to check whether I missed out on something after finishing an area.

With free time coming at a premium these days, I do some basic research on any complex game I start (like XCOM 2 for instance). I prefer finding out the details on my own, but also want to avoid making huge blunders at the outset that would force me to start over after 10 hours.

Monkey Island 3 is another example that fits this thread neatly: I played it all the way through with a guide next to me. I've never been a fan of adventure games, and just wanted to enjoy the story and the silly jokes. And there was no Youtube back then where one can find let's plays or videos with the story only.