Europa Universalis IV Catch-All

jrralls wrote:

Wild speculation time; What year will we see EU V?

That might be the only way to fix estates.

2020? Paradox can probably squeeze out a few more expansions to this beast that will never die. I caaaannot wait to call in sick and play that one all night.

2022. They are just now figuring out how to do good flavor packs in EU4. I reckon we get one of those for Africa, one for India, one for Europe/HRE/France, and another one for the Americas. Add in 2 major general updates and that is 3ish years of content releases. Add in a year of nothing as they are working/hyping the new game.

Followed by outrage on release of EUV when the game loses 80% of the features from the full EUIV package.

Clusks wrote:

Followed by outrage on release of EUV when the game loses 80% of the features from the full EUIV package.

This. Eu4 is such a good platform, and for a paradox game, a UI that isn’t completely overwhelming. It lets you get your feet wet and readily increase your knowledge of the little things over time that really add the hooks for replay. To be honest, you’re right, an EU5 would likely just foul things up and probably have a smalle following and tougher takeoff when people flock back to EU4.

That's always the case for a new EU game though, or something like Civ. At the end of the day you need to release the under-featured base game so you can climb back up the road to getting a proper sequel.

So I recently started playing EUIV after watching Sean Sands' youtube videos. I just have the base game now, but if (when) I start a second playthrough, which DLCs would you all recommend getting? I can probably only justify getting one or two considering the price. I'm currently playing France, and am eyeing a run with either a colonial England or someplace outside Europe.

Clusks wrote:

Followed by outrage on release of EUV when the game loses 80% of the features from the full EUIV package.

Well, it depends. There were some players who reacted like that when they released EU4 because giving up 100s to 1000s of hours of developed expertise in one game is hard. However, Paradox changed the fundamentals of the game enough that it did not feel like you were losing that much. Plus the UI was so much better that most folks, myself included, were happy to get off the EU3 train and on the EU4 train. The basic mechanic chain of monarch points was enough to make the switch a lot less painful.

I remember being pissed about missing quality of life issues when playing CivV for the first few times vs what was in CivIV. But a part of that was that the game had not changed enough: despite it changing quite a bit under the hood, the mechanics were similar enough that I immediately missed some of that QoL that had been added to CivIV over the various updates and DLCs. I do not remember having a similar reaction when playing EU4 the first few times, I was more about how to min-max my monarch points.

If Pdox can change the mechanics for EU5 enough to make it feel like a brand new game, I don't think there will be a problem. I do think it will be much harder to pull off this time though. If they pop out an EU5 and it is mostly the same game, then people will scream bloody murder.

Edit:

Renji wrote:

So I recently started playing EUIV after watching Sean Sands' youtube videos. I just have the base game now, but if (when) I start a second playthrough, which DLCs would you all recommend getting? I can probably only justify getting one or two considering the price. I'm currently playing France, and am eyeing a run with either a colonial England or someplace outside Europe.

I think Common Sense, The Art of War, and Wealth of Nations are must-buys if you can. The rest are tentative buys at best, depending on what you want to do. I have not picked up Cradle of Civilization nor Rule Brittania yet so I don;t have an opinion on those. However, here are my thoughts on the rest of the DLC.

Rule Brittania is the gold standard of region specific packs.
I previously really enjoyed a few Russia games after buying third rome but RB is more extensive and interesting mechanically.
Really can't recommend enough.

tboon wrote:

Add in 2 major general updates

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)

^^^brilliant

Thanks for the feedback

I am the very model of a modern major general update...

Robear wrote:
tboon wrote:

Add in 2 major general updates

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)

IMAGE(https://m.popkey.co/35c64e/jrqQx.gif)

Out of context theater is best theater.

tboon wrote:

Well, it depends. There were some players who reacted like that when they released EU4 because giving up 100s to 1000s of hours of developed expertise in one game is hard. However, Paradox changed the fundamentals of the game enough that it did not feel like you were losing that much. Plus the UI was so much better that most folks, myself included, were happy to get off the EU3 train and on the EU4 train. The basic mechanic chain of monarch points was enough to make the switch a lot less painful.

If Pdox can change the mechanics for EU5 enough to make it feel like a brand new game, I don't think there will be a problem. I do think it will be much harder to pull off this time though. If they pop out an EU5 and it is mostly the same game, then people will scream bloody murder.

I think Paradox can keep the fundamentals intact for EU5. Monarch points, most of the diplo game and the military stuff is fairly solid at this point.

They need to overhaul trade into something that players can understand and interact with in more ways than just sitting and building trade ships/taking over the entirety of France for Calais.

cube wrote:
tboon wrote:

Well, it depends. There were some players who reacted like that when they released EU4 because giving up 100s to 1000s of hours of developed expertise in one game is hard. However, Paradox changed the fundamentals of the game enough that it did not feel like you were losing that much. Plus the UI was so much better that most folks, myself included, were happy to get off the EU3 train and on the EU4 train. The basic mechanic chain of monarch points was enough to make the switch a lot less painful.

If Pdox can change the mechanics for EU5 enough to make it feel like a brand new game, I don't think there will be a problem. I do think it will be much harder to pull off this time though. If they pop out an EU5 and it is mostly the same game, then people will scream bloody murder.

I think Paradox can keep the fundamentals intact for EU5. Monarch points, most of the diplo game and the military stuff is fairly solid at this point.

They need to overhaul trade into something that players can understand and interact with in more ways than just sitting and building trade ships/taking over the entirety of France for Calais.

I was considering writing this as well earlier. The trade mechanic is a bit...strange. It only took me about 5 games to figure out and ever time i come back to the game, it’s the last thing I totally remember.

Improving the navies somehow also. Making it a little easier to keep up with or use would help, but I’m not sure how. For a ‘colonizing’ game, that seemed somewhat tossed together a bit.

I feel colonization used to be better in earlier versions (pre-El Dorado). Liberty desire and revolutions and more native peoples make colonization kind of a mess. I have not played a colonization game in a long long time as it feels, to me, like a sucker's game (I do all the work, someone else aka my ex-colonists, get all the benefit). May be more historical bit a lot less fun for me.

tboon wrote:

I feel colonization used to be better in earlier versions (pre-El Dorado). Liberty desire and revolutions and more native peoples make colonization kind of a mess. I have not played a colonization game in a long long time as it feels, to me, like a sucker's game (I do all the work, someone else aka my ex-colonists, get all the benefit). May be more historical bit a lot less fun for me.

My last game was colonial with an attempt to drag my colonial partners into one colonial war after another and then having them benefit from the wars by annexing the territories. The 13 colonies spanned from sea to shining sea and into Colombia and Brazil.

I believe I read that in no single year of its American Empire did Spain ever get more gold (combined) from it then it did from the Netherlands/Low Countries.

jrralls wrote:

I believe I read that in no single year of its American Empire did Spain ever get more gold (combined) from it then it did from the Netherlands/Low Countries.

I would love to know what book that comes from. Any guesses?

It does sound correct though. I have read that the money collected by the British Raj was less than what the British Exchequer were paying out. But that was a privatise the profits, publicise the expenses situation. A lot of the British establishment made a lot of money from India but the government not so much. It benefited the British economy but those benefits were unevenly distributed. I have been told this is why it became untenable to convince the ordinary British citizen to fight Indian Independence.

jrralls wrote:

I believe I read that in no single year of its American Empire did Spain ever get more gold (combined) from it then it did from the Netherlands/Low Countries.

I’m not surprised by that at all. An agricultural and mercantile giant vs pillaging. Spain never really established colonial mercantilism like the English, Dutch or even French did. Spain mostly had the mentality to take what wasn’t nailed down, set up religious conversions, and move to the next. They basically strip mines the Americas.

I went looking and found the book, CH Haring's _The Spanish Empire In America_ I read it in 2002 and it turns out my memory is slightly off,pg 257
"Under Charles V. this revenue was comparatively
small and increased only by slow degrees. In 1516, the year of
accession to his Spanish inheritance, it amounted to about 35,000
ducats. In 1518 it was 122,000, but dropped as low as 6,000 in 1521,
when the emperor was entering upon his interminable wars with
France. In 1538, a very unusual year owing to the return of the
first of the great treasure-fleets, the receipts of the treasurer of the
Casa de Contratacion rose to 980,000 ducats ; but the average during
this decade and the following was about 165,000. Only after 1550,
when the emperor's career was approaching its melancholy twilight,
did this average income swell to a million ducats, i e. to a sum equal
to that which he drew annually from his possessions in the Low
Countries. During the next half-century, in the long and disas-
trous reign of his son Philip, it increased gradually to between two
and three millions."
No figures on what the Low Countries were during that timeframe.

For anyone interested, in celebration of EU4's 5 year anniversary, Paradox's store is doing a sale of the game and the DLC today and part of tomorrow. A lot of the big expansions are 75% off, which isthereanydeal.com tells me hasn't happened for several years. So if anyone wants to stock up on DLC they may never play, now's the best time.

https://www.paradoxplaza.com/europa-...

Just curious, who here is going to buy Imperator: Rome on day one?

jrralls wrote:

Just curious, who here is going to buy Imperator: Rome on day one?

I probably will, you actually reminded me about it, so I've been reading up on the dev diaries!

I'm sure I will.

Oh hells yeah I will.

I have a feeling that RDR2 and baby #2 are going to keep me busy enough to hold off for a sale. Unless Sean and/or 3 Moves Ahead convince me I need it now,

Day goddamn 1