The GWJ JRPG Club 2018 - Final Fantasy XII!

More than anything, stealing has gotten me a lot more loot and potions than I otherwise would have had. I haven't noticed a relationship between stealing and standard loot drops, so for these really large areas, getting the high chain counter still results in better drops despite frequent steals.

Finally getting close to Drakklor Lab. Party's around level 40, so far the only fight that's given me real trouble in this portion of the game has been:

Spoiler:

Mateus, the Esper. It spawns 5 elementals that are immune to most attacks I had at the time. Took me three attempts with different strategies, but eventually I managed to dispose of the little bastards while not targeting the main baddie with spells (reflect issues) and got through the event.

Looking forward to getting a bit farther tonight.

Made it through Giruvegan...

A tip if anyone wants it for this area:

Spoiler:

Make sure you WHM has Cleanse or someone has Remedy Lore 3 which allows you to cure Disease.

Edit: Thoughts...

Spoiler:

Some parts of Giruvegan... okay, most of it was kind of tedious. Soooo many status effects. I’m also not a big fan of trying to find my way around at the same time as dealing with either random battles or respawning enemies. One or the other: fine. Both together? Kind of gets on my nerves. There’s also been a few points where the way forward seemed kind of obscure to me but maybe I’m just dense or not at my sharpest since I tend to be playing at the end of the day. Anyway... I’m kind of tempted to use a guide to go through the rest of the game to avoid frustration.

Does anyone know how random the treasure chest loot is? I've gotten a few excellent spells and weapons from treasure chests, which, looking back at this thread, has made certain boss fights easier than it seems some people experienced. Notably, I have Dispel, which has been really helpful for stripping away Haste and Protect from bosses like Vossler. It was just sitting in a chest in the Tomb of Raithwall. I wonder now if a lot of spells or techniks can only be found as treasure. I've found it's tricky looking up information since most sources don't differentiate between the original PS2 version and the Zodiac Age.

I'm working on hunts and side quests now. The rains have come, though I haven't yet seen how certain areas have changed. I'm hoping to get one or two of those elite hunts knocked out, mostly so I can see how tricky they really are.

I also found that grinding those tomato guys in the desert and stealing Succulent Fruits from them are a great way to get some money at the point I'm at.

Progress! Kinda. I finally reported back to Tomaj about that Rogue Tomato and completed a few more hunts.

steinkrug wrote:

Made it through Giruvegan...

A tip if anyone wants it for this area:

Spoiler:

Make sure you WHM has Cleanse or someone has Remedy Lore 3 which allows you to cure Disease.

Edit: Thoughts...

Spoiler:

Some parts of Giruvegan... okay, most of it was kind of tedious. Soooo many status effects. I’m also not a big fan of trying to find my way around at the same time as dealing with either random battles or respawning enemies. One or the other: fine. Both together? Kind of gets on my nerves. There’s also been a few points where the way forward seemed kind of obscure to me but maybe I’m just dense or not at my sharpest since I tend to be playing at the end of the day. Anyway... I’m kind of tempted to use a guide to go through the rest of the game to avoid frustration.

Your first spoiler is a very good tip for avoiding frustration right off the bat.

As for your thoughts:

Spoiler:

I wouldn't fault you for using a guide in the next area after Giruvegan. It's very confusing.

Okay I’m late to the party, but just started back up from where I left off last year. My group:

Vaan - Monk/Bushi (Katana)
Balthier - Foebreaker/Shikari (Ninja Sword)
Fran - Uhlan/Time Mage (Spear)
Basch - Knight/Bushi (Sword)
Ashe - Red Battlemage/Black Mage (Staff)
Penelo - White Mage/Machinist (Gun)

I had just finished up...

Spoiler:

Judge Bergan in Mt Bur-Omisace, so when I reloaded I decided to catch up on hunts. The first one I did was The Trickster which was an interesting fight, not that difficult until the end when it becomes immune to physical attacks. At that point I had to bring out Ashe and hit it with Bio over and over again until it finally fell. Man that was one big chocobo!

I recorded all the boss fights so far, the link is below if anyone is interested. Not hunts though, for some reason it never occurred to me that I should record those.

beanman101283 wrote:

Does anyone know how random the treasure chest loot is? I've gotten a few excellent spells and weapons from treasure chests, which, looking back at this thread, has made certain boss fights easier than it seems some people experienced.

This guide I've been reading through looks to have pretty solid info on RNG manipulation for different areas.

I haven't tried it out just yet, but will report my results when I do.

Yea, I agree that part was annoying.....

I just got past it and now have a guest in the party, and since I have the airship it makes life so much easier. So I am now in a run around and complete some hunts with a guest mode. It's oddly satisfying on 4x speed watching the hp bars of enemies just drop.

Chimalli wrote:

Yea, I agree that part was annoying.....

I just got past it and now have a guest in the party, and since I have the airship it makes life so much easier. So I am now in a run around and complete some hunts with a guest mode. It's oddly satisfying on 4x speed watching the hp bars of enemies just drop.

That’s a good idea to take advantage of the fact that there’s a guest and therefore larger party for the hunts.

I accidentally wandered into an area with level 46-48 enemies at level 36 and was pleasantly surprised at how well things went. Provided I didn’t take on more than a couple mobs at once things really weren’t that difficult. Basche, Panelo, and Ashe were getting along quite nicely for being so underpowered. Speaking of Ashe, my god is she an absolute beast with magic. I have gambits set up for her to auto hit mobs with whatever they are weakest against. While fighting anything around the same level she usually one shots them before Basche can even get a swing in.

steinkrug wrote:

Made it through Giruvegan...

Edit: Thoughts...

Spoiler:

Some parts of Giruvegan... okay, most of it was kind of tedious. Soooo many status effects. I’m also not a big fan of trying to find my way around at the same time as dealing with either random battles or respawning enemies. One or the other: fine. Both together? Kind of gets on my nerves. There’s also been a few points where the way forward seemed kind of obscure to me but maybe I’m just dense or not at my sharpest since I tend to be playing at the end of the day. Anyway... I’m kind of tempted to use a guide to go through the rest of the game to avoid frustration.

I agree 100%. I managed to get lost when I went back to this area for a hunt and ended up going up rather than down (or maybe that's down rather than up)..... lets just say this area takes the confusing maze full of respawing enemies to a whole other level.

beanman101283 wrote:

Does anyone know how random the treasure chest loot is? I've gotten a few excellent spells and weapons from treasure chests, which, looking back at this thread, has made certain boss fights easier than it seems some people experienced. Notably, I have Dispel, which has been really helpful for stripping away Haste and Protect from bosses like Vossler. It was just sitting in a chest in the Tomb of Raithwall. I wonder now if a lot of spells or techniks can only be found as treasure. I've found it's tricky looking up information since most sources don't differentiate between the original PS2 version and the Zodiac Age.

From what I have seen the spells that are in chests arn't random on zodiac age, but they do only seem to be in a single location, miss that chest and you miss that spell. Like you I got dispel early on but I can't imagine going through without it, I's so useful on bosses. I did somehow manage to miss both haste spells and float though.

I finished the game last week. My general thought are

Spoiler:

The gambit system might be my favorite FF combat system. It's not perfect, I would have liked better options for having my black mage exploit elemental weaknesses for example, but it is unique and keeps things moving.

The job system on the other hand missed it's mark. It felt like there were must have jobs and fairly useless ones, rather then the MMO style healer, support, DPS, tank, Hybrid system they were aiming for I ended up playing the second half of the game with a white/time mage and either 2 DPS melee or one melee DPS and a black/red mage. The white mage, in particular, seems absolutely vital, the melee classes all feel very similar and the ranged classes seemed less efficient.

Between the MMO classes and gameplay and the Star Wars prequel feel of the story and cut-scenes this game is surprisingly "of its day". It's hard to judge this is current games, but don't think I have played a retro game that has quite so many ties to gaming/geek culture of its time.

2x speed was a must be me. I can't imagine playing through the long treks in the second and third acts without 2x speed.

Story wise I was a bit disappointed, I basically got a 40 hour adventure book-ended by 3 hours of story on either side. I think some of this might have come from the 2x speed and loving the combat meaning I rushed through towns and never quite connected to the world

On the same note the characters felt weak compared to other FF games. Penelo (my white mage) must have spent 35+ hours in my party and I can't really tell you anything about her apart from that she has a deep, non-romantic connecting to Vann (I did like that they never tried to make this romantic). She is probably the least fleshed out, but when you have a cast of only 6 to start with I expected more here.

For all my complaints I don't want to understate at all the fun I had zipping around, clearing areas without directly entering any actions. It's quite different but this will go down as one of my favorite FF games.

Congrats on finishing Cronox! Out of curiosity what level was your party by the end?

I think I agree with most of your sentiments. We'll see if what I have left of the game changes any of my feelings.

I started getting really frustrated with aggro'ing the elementals in Giza Plains during the rains. In case there's anyone else like me who hadn't figured it out yet, using any magic at all will cause the elementals to ruin your day. It doesn't matter if you're using it on them or not. Once I switched to my melee hitters and made sure to disable any magic-related Gambits, I had a much easier time there.

Use the element they are weak to and the elementals go down quick

Also, I just spent 250,000 on an urn that I have no idea what I it does. I tend to just buy everything in the bazaar though... But, all my hunt money is now gone Time to hunt some more I guess.

Apparently my available spells are too low level to do any damage, even when they're weak to that element, due to the elementals' high magick resistance. Google tells me once I get the 2nd level spells I should be able to handle them better.

Ugh, I just found out the boss I just killed and fought had the genji armor, the only way to get it is from him or the trials. Why do the make me have to steal items, just let them drop or put them somewhere else in the game..Also, guests enter trials with you if you have one in the party

Edit: Apparently Trials is an all or nothing experience. You have to start over every time you want to try it..

Chimalli wrote:

Edit: Apparently Trials is an all or nothing experience. You have to start over every time you want to try it..

It'll let you make a real-deal save every ten stages. I've made it to stage 47 and it's a great way to collect LP.

Ted wrote:
Chimalli wrote:

Edit: Apparently Trials is an all or nothing experience. You have to start over every time you want to try it..

It'll let you make a real-deal save every ten stages. I've made it to stage 47 and it's a great way to collect LP.

Yes, but if you can’t beat all 100 and want to continue your game it resets the trials.

Chimalli wrote:

Ugh, I just found out the boss I just killed and fought had the genji armor, the only way to get it is from him or the trials. Why do the make me have to steal items, just let them drop or put them somewhere else in the game..Also, guests enter trials with you if you have one in the party

Edit: Apparently Trials is an all or nothing experience. You have to start over every time you want to try it..

At least we have trials now.

The game will also auto-save at the beginning of each stage, allowing you to cheese the rare drops.

Of course, if you try to get all the rare drops in FF12, you will descend into madness.

Yea, I’d rather just have fun until just before the brink of not wanting to play. I’m in the tower of madness right now and just got sent to the bottom to save, so I have to climb it all over again.

steinkrug wrote:

Congrats on finishing Cronox! Out of curiosity what level was your party by the end?

High 50's and low 60's I think, but I felt quite over-leveled for the main quests.

As usual for an FF game some of the side monsters and areas are tougher than anything in the main missions.

I just finished the game, level 50.

As a general thought I agree with Cronox.

Spoiler:

I loved the gambit system. The Machinist class seemed useless, while the White Mage was crucial. I spent the majority of the game in either 2x or 4x speeds. Towards the end unless it was a boss fight i just ran around in 4x killed things and got from point A to point B. The hunts were fun for a while too. I enjoyed the story and thought that world was interesting, although some areas seemed rushed, while others were drawn out too much (this was most likely my fault for playing on the speed I did). I might go back and do some extra end game things but prob not much.

Congrats Chimalli!

I started Pharos, but then got distracted and headed over to a optional side area that I missed...

Spoiler:

I looked up the location of the Protectga spell and found out about the Necrohol of Nabudis which I totally missed. I've got the spell now, it's just in a chest, though there are some bosses in the area. I don't know if I'll bother with them or head back to Pharos...

I put in a decent chunk of time this weekend and realized I have not touched this game since Monster Hunter world came out in January, ouch. I was at the point where you first meet Balthier and Fran in the waterway. Got all the way back to Rabanastre and an easy to depart to Bhujerba. I wonder if I can finish before the end of the month. My goal is to hit Raithwall this week.

Oh I also got a 57 chain of wolves on my way back through the Estersands. That was fun. And gambits are really expensive.

I finally have Esuna, and pretty much wrecked the Tiamat boss fight. The Decoy spell finally let me set up a tank with Vaan, where the Main Gauche lets him have a really high Evade stat. Tiamat couldn't really hit him. Otherwise I just had to watch out for status effects like Sap. I wish I had Haste, but at least I can cure Slow with Chronos Tears.

The available Hunts have been more challenging. Several of them take a couple tries until I figure out a decent Gambit setup. I assume that's the point, really. I suspect several would be much easier with later abilities like Float, so it's interesting that they let you attempt them when they do. I still have a few open in high level areas that I'll wait a while to tackle. Having a guest in my party has also made several of the Hunts more doable when I suspect they otherwise would be too much for me to handle at this point.

steinkrug wrote:

I started Pharos, but then got distracted and headed over to a optional side area that I missed...

Spoiler:

I looked up the location of the Protectga spell and found out about the Necrohol of Nabudis which I totally missed. I've got the spell now, it's just in a chest, though there are some bosses in the area. I don't know if I'll bother with them or head back to Pharos...

Spoiler:

Unless I missed something this whole area, and the attached nabreus deadlands, are completely optional which seemed odd for such extensive areas. Both are well worth but well worth visiting for some of their spells/weapons.

No, you didn't miss anything, they are completely optional.

I don't know how I feel about having to find spells. The rarer weapons, armor, sure... Still trying to decide if it's just because it's different from what I expect from FF or if I don't agree with the design choice.

steinkrug wrote:

No, you didn't miss anything, they are completely optional.

I don't know how I feel about having to find spells. The rarer weapons, armor, sure... Still trying to decide if it's just because it's different from what I expect from FF or if I don't agree with the design choice.

I'm in the same boat.

I am having trouble expressing why I think it's OK for equipment but not OK for spells, which has me leaning towards regarding it as a unique choice rather than a straight up poor one.

As I somewhat expressed earlier, I’m okay with finding things in games. Having an incomplete list of spells/weapons/armor etc. is something to work towards if you enjoyed the game. However, the items must not be hidden in something that once you kill an enemy, or leave an area that you cannot return to, you cannot retrieve them or they are not required to beat the game on normal. In my opinion that just pushes people towards experiencing games through guides which ruins the experience. I can almost guarantee that I will not unlock everything in this game but, that doesn’t mean that I don’t want to have the option if I do go back. Giving players the choice to limit themselves, I.e. boss souls in dark souls, so they can go through again if they want and they know their options is far better. Don’t punish them for ignorance of the game or choosing not to steal from every enemy, every phase.

Yeah, I agree with you Chimalli. And with FF games, I'm used to not getting the best weapons. It's odd that spells are also in that boat in XII, but even so, they're not necessary to beat the game... Speaking of which... I did!

Spoiler:

My party was only level 45, but I didn't have any trouble with Vayne... or Vanye... or Vanye. Heh, this game definitely follows the stereotype of "this is not my final form." That said, his final form was a pretty neat design, making up for his 'roided-out second incarnation. As far as fights go, it wasn't really that interesting since it seemed to encourage relying on physical attacks. I made sure I had Protect and Shell up and could heal quite a bit and that's about it.

For a game that has a lot of differences from other FF games, it's pretty similar, as has been noted, in that it's most challenging parts are off the beaten path. And I didn't really venture too far down that path. I did maybe 35-40% of the hunts. I think my playtime was around 40 hours. That's with using 2X speed a fair bit. I have both a save before heading into Bahamut and a New Game+ save, so I'm all set to revisit the game someday if I feel inclined.

I liked the cast. I do agree that I didn't feel like I got to know all of them that well, but unlike some other FF games, no one outright irritated me either so there's that. I thought Vaan might, but he turned out okay, even amusing at times. It's interesting how going in you might expect him to be the latest in young male lead protagonists going back to VII, most of them blonde. But he's not, even if he's your avatar in the cities. I have read how he and Penelo were added and that Basch was originally the protagonist. Funny then, that Ashe seems like the protagonist narratively. And then there's Balthier, of course, who insists he's the leading man.

I did play with Japanese voices. I tried English briefly near the end of the game to hear what everyone sounded like... and switched back. I definitely prefer the Japanese cast.

The story had a lot of potential that I don't think was totally realized. Or maybe my expectations were just different. I though there'd be more political drama and intrigue, but plot-wise, our group of six really just hunts down MacGuffins most of the game. The ending was decent, though, and returned to some of the detail that we had in the beginning. I suspect this feeling results from seeing a bit of the initial ambitions of the development show through versus what they managed to create with the final product.

Still, I enjoyed what they ended up making. I like the tone and atmosphere a lot and the gambit system, after getting used to it, was fun and felt like simple programming. Battles were like running the program and watching to see if there were any "errors." I think I'll probably count it among my favorite FF games.