Parenting Catch-all

I’m in need of suggestions and ideas. Our 4 1/2 year old daughter is pretty self sufficient if reluctant when getting ready for bed. But she will not stay in her room after story/rock/song routine. We allow her twice to come out with a reminder/warning. Third time comes with consequence. I don’t really like the punitive approach and feel like it’s creating increased stress for her around going to bed. She states her biggest issue is being alone while in bed. We often stay in her room and rock while she lays down, but unless we stay until she’s asleep (impractical), we face the same struggle when we leave.

I’d like to fill my idea quiver with suggestions to try and see what takes. Ideas? Experience?

Create a sibling?
It's tough one and our daughter does the same thing if her brother is not around for some reason.
It's mostly a lot of comforting and enforcement.
Other thoughts is making her bed more awesome or something. I'm thinking nightlight, those tents you can get for beds, etc.

When we had this issue, we used the "silent treatment" strategy.

[T]oddlers love to test boundaries, after all! In this case, we recommend that you try the ‘Silent Return to Bed’ – that is, when your toddler wanders out of his room, silently walk him back, tuck him in, and leave. You want these interactions to be as boring as possible – no threatening, no bargaining, no discussing. This will help discourage your toddler from repeat attempts to engage with you by getting out of bed.

The first or second time she'd come out at time, we'd remind her that it's time to sleep etc. If she came out any more, we'd walk her back to her room and put her down without saying anything. Although I have to say I didn't find it an easy strategy. "Why aren't you saying anything, Daddy?" :'(

We do night light, leave the door open with downstairs light on (just enough light reaches up the stairs) and let him listen to audio books, to which he falls asleep pretty quick.

For similar behavior with my 5 year old, we started granting her one "late night" per week where, if she goes to bed without calling for us or leaving her room unnecessarily 5 nights in the week, she gets to stay up an extra 30 minutes on Saturday night. It's a bonus treat that she can earn, so telling her she failed to earn it feels slightly less punitive. We make it for 5 nights rather than the 6 non-Saturday nights basically so that she can fail once without wrecking her chances.

Sometimes I forget how lucky we are with how easy minimanta is (he is 20 months old). He is either growing in back molars or testing boundaries... probably both. 2 nights ago he would not lay down in his crib. After 20 minutes of crying we broke and got him out and he fell asleep almost immediately... put him back down and more crying/ wouldn't lay down.

Normally he will cry or ask for us for 5-10 mins and then go to sleep, or if we are lucky he will just go to sleep straight away. That night after multiple visits from mommy and daddy he actually fell asleep leaning against the side of the crib... I went in and laid him down and he stood up and started crying again... this was at midnight... Even though he had no symptoms I gave him some ibuprofen because I thought he had to be hurting to have stayed up this long and held him until he passed out on me for the 4th or 5th time. Put him in his crib and he woke up and started crying again... I then watched him cry for the next 45 mins standing there calling for me... then 10 mins of him just standing there.... then at 1:45 am he finally passed out lying down.

Last night we put him to be and he cried for 30 mins... then stood there for 10 and was asleep by 8. This sucks.

Also he has decided that he does not want to be separated from us in the mornings at daycare, although up until Monday he has loved playing with his friends and his teachers and is typically too distracted to say bye. Now I have to listen to him scream as I walk away.

Any tips to get over this kind of behavior?

Sometimes a stepwise approach can work. So you could lay him down and then NOT leave the room. Just stay there. He in his crib, you reading a book or something. So long as he can see you, he may find it easier to settle down. He may have object permanence now, but there are monsters under the crib, you know.

We allow my daughter (same age as yours) 20 mins of "quiet time" before lights out. She usually spends that time flipping through her books and looking at the pictures (she is not reading yet). This gives her the opportunity to quiet herself down on her own and has dramatically reduced our difficulties with bedtime. We bought her a digital timer so she can tell when it's time to turn out the lights and get into bed.

YMMV, but this has worked really well for us.

Pinkerton wrote:

We allow my daughter (same age as yours) 20 mins of "quiet time" before lights out. She usually spends that time flipping through her books and looking at the pictures (she is not reading yet). This gives her the opportunity to quiet herself down on her own and has dramatically reduced our difficulties with bedtime. We bought her a digital timer so she can tell when it's time to turn out the lights and get into bed.

YMMV, but this has worked really well for us.

It works for us as well, for both kids. No screens (even TV) 30 minutes before bedtime prep. Some nights we draw a bit, or read a book out loud (Princess Bride is a current favorite), or just sit and talk about the day.

My oldest also can’t sleep without a white noise machine. He’s just like me, every squeak or groan from the house he’s wide awake. When we know trips ar coming up, we mix in airplane sounds to the white noise (eventually getting to nothing but airplane noise) to help on long flights.

manta173 wrote:

Also he has decided that he does not want to be separated from us in the mornings at daycare, although up until Monday he has loved playing with his friends and his teachers and is typically too distracted to say bye. Now I have to listen to him scream as I walk away.

Any tips to get over this kind of behavior?

I can't speak much on the sleep weirdness, except that in my experience as soon as you get used to a new messed up sleeping pattern they'll change it on you.

As for drop-off, we had a bit of an issue like that last year. In general, i found that if i just walked around the corner from the door and waited about a minute, the crying would stop. With ours, it's mostly the transition that's scary, not specifically missing mommy or daddy. Once we realized that for sure, walking out on a crying toddler got easier.
Thankfully it's much less of an issue lately, but we've also switched schools and they're almost always outside at the start of the day. At her current preschool they also have the kids keep a lovey or stuffie in their cubbies for naptime, and if the kids are upset during the day they can ask for their lovey to calm themselves down a bit. Maybe something like that? "Daddy's got to go now, but if you feel anxious you can give Frimplepants a squeeze until you feel better. I love you. See you this afternoon."

Thanks for the bedtime ideas. Going to try them out and see what takes.

The timer thing is interesting. How can she tell it is running out? I feel like minimanta wouldn't know the number was going down.

We used to read books at bedtime and he loves to look through them on his own, but he doesn't want to do it right before bed anymore... which is how we got into the routine of the educational nursery songs on youtube for 20-30 mins. It keeps him still and relaxed. Then when he is starting to get sleepy we put him in his crib. He used to go without a complaint, but the last month or so he cries more often than not.

On a side note, we spent close to 20 hours driving over the holiday... 5 on Thursday then 7 on Friday and Sunday not counting stops. We have finally gotten to the point where he seems to understand that we can't just stop and get out of the car seat although he wants to. He wanted out badly and we were able to calm him down with books and toys. Also, Daniel Tiger on a fire tablet is a wonderful thing. Hopefully we won't have to do that much travel with him again for a few more months.

Daniel Tiger is a wonderful thing. I’ve discovered music albums on Amazon music and have been playing them for car rides and around the house.

On the nighttime front, I implemented a 10-minute reading time after the bedtime routine and it has helped. Yesterday was the first day she was coming out again, though it was for understandable reasons like I’m still not asleep (after almost an hour) and my whole foot slipped though the massive hole on my loved night slipper and I can’t fix it myself.

Basically, the reading time became the time she comes out of her room and when I put her to bed, she’s suddenly better about staying.

manta173 wrote:

The timer thing is interesting. How can she tell it is running out? I feel like minimanta wouldn't know the number was going down.

My daughter can't tell time yet so, while she knows the time is running out, she can't tell exactly how much time she has left at any particular point. She just knows that, once the timer starts to beep, she needs to get herself into bed since that is part of the deal.

We use timers for lots of things, most frequently when our children are fighting over the same toy and need to take turns. My wife and I have found them to be really effective at diffusing conflict.

We did our best to pare bedtime down to simple rules which apply to everybody. The point for ours when they were little was to respect everyone's bedtime whether you're asleep or not. When it was your bedtime, you went to your room and stayed there with the lights off or a dim night light. The youngest always got a room of their own. When they were mobile but not potty trained yet, we put a childproof doorknob cover on the inside and didn't care if they stayed in bed or not as long as they respected quiet time. During this short time they always had an audio monitor in case we were needed. Sometimes we'd find them asleep on the floor surrounded by toys and picture books in the morning, and that was okay. The start of potty training meant being able to leave their bed on their own, but disturbing others for no good reason gave them license to be really grouchy at you. Nobody wanted that.

When ours were little they'd always get as much sleep as they needed with no pushing. Once they got older we continued this (homeschooling is wonderful this way). Now our kids don't like how they feel when they don't get enough sleep. They can stay up reading or doing quiet activities after the family has gone to bed, as long as it's something which doesn't disturb anyone else. If they go to bed earlier than others, everyone respects this and quiets down. Now that they're 10, 13, and 16 we usually all go to bed around 10 or 10:30pm, maybe doing something quiet like reading until we decide it's time to sleep. It's rare that Kaycee or I will have to give some small guidance to one of the kids if they haven't been sleeping enough.

EDIT: By the way, I totally get that this doesn't work in a home where everybody (or even just the adults) has a morning schedule. I don't think many modern societies give sleep the priority it deserves.

My kids have been pretty good about going to bed (getting up at $#*-o'clock is a different issue). But one idea I've had suggested a couple of times is the 'bedtime pass'. The idea is to give the kid a physical object as a get-out-of-bed pass. They can use it once a night no questions asked, and after that they're not allowed out any more. So a kid may not use it at all, figuring they may really need it later, or they'll use it once when they need to.

Anyone have experience with music players for young kids? Ollie is about to turn 4, and her iPod shuffle has just given up the ghost.

Something that prioritizes robustness over performance would be ideal. Ability to clip to waistband/clothes a bonus.

IMAGE(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y125/ramboestrada/random%20s2g%20stuff/dope%20pose/borke.jpg)

Can you also recommend a belt for a 4 year old that that will clip to?

Those shuffles are pretty sturdy, depending on generation. Don’t know if you’d find a better one in the plastic knock-off market. You might be able to find a shuffle refurb for relatively nice and cheap. I think I got a 4th gen at Daily Steals for like $25 or 30. Search shows Walmart has some 2gb 4th gen for $50. Thats a little high for my taste for a young kid, but it’s there if you’re in the market.

Or you can go super cheap! Ha! Internal memory not included

Jonman wrote:

Ollie is about to turn 4, and her iPod shuffle has just given up the ghost.

Translation - my wife failed to notice that the volume slider on the headphones was set to zero.

Stand down, Goodjer parents. This was a drill.

Minor parental achievement: I have almost gotten my 5-year old daughter (6 on Saturday!) through six months of weekly allergy shots.

It has really sucked! Since September, once a week I have to leave work an hour early, pick her up from her after-school program at 4PM, drive her to the pediatrician's office, and then try to comfort her as much as possible as she shrieks in terror as the nurse comes to give her an injection in each arm to address her allergies. The worst times, she has tried to run away, and I've had to hold her down quite firmly while she sobs, which is extremely unpleasant. We've gotten into a pretty decent groove over the last month or two, where we talk about her fears in the car on the way over, remind her that no matter how much she cries, we're not going to skip this week, and that she really really doesn't like it when the nurse and I have to hold her arms down. I also finally persuaded her that it's okay to cry as much as she wants, but she cannot yell. After her shots are done, we then have to wait for a half hour so they can check to see how her body reacted, so I always bring her a bag of M&Ms and either her tablet or my Switch. She has very strong opinions about my choices in Stardew Valley.

An added challenge is that she complains a lot about the shot afterwards, but my job as parent is to interpret whether her complaint is really just sort of normal "this kind of stings"/"my throat feels a little scratchy"/"I am mad that this happened" or if her body is actually having an extreme reaction and I need to stab her with an epi-pen and race her to the hospital. As a person whose instincts run strongly towards "oh it's fine, stop complaining" but who also does not want his daughter to die, it is a really stressful balancing act to work out in my head.

We have just 3 weeks left until we reach her maintenance dose, after which we do the next shot after 2 weeks, then 3 weeks, and then it's monthly for 2-5 years. No idea how they decide which end of that spectrum we end up on. But when it's monthly, I hope that my wife will be able to alternate months with me. Fingers crossed my younger daughter has less intense allergies, or at least that they don't manifest until she's a little older.

Has anyone put their kid in Montessori school and can share their opinion? Or looked at them and decided against it? Our daughter will be 2 in May and we are looking at various school options.

LeapingGnome wrote:

Has anyone put their kid in Montessori school and can share their opinion? Or looked at them and decided against it? Our daughter will be 2 in May and we are looking at various school options.

For what it's worth. In the Netherlands there is a plethora of schools with educational insights each of their own (Jenaplan, Montessori, Steiner.. even the iPad school emerges as we speak).

We have moved three times, hence our kids are on their third different school. My experience is that if a school has some real results with something, other schools will copy it within one or two years.

With this knowledge now, I will only choose schools that are nearest to home. Kids can play at each others houses and that is the best learning school there is.

LeapingGnome wrote:

Has anyone put their kid in Montessori school and can share their opinion? Or looked at them and decided against it? Our daughter will be 2 in May and we are looking at various school options.

Our son is in Montessori preschool, and it's been great for him. He had been in daycare centers since he was 3 months old, and around 2.5/3 we decided to try Montessori. He's halfway through his second school year now. The learning experience is far better than anything we saw in daycare. The teachers have all been there a long time, and are professionally prepared as teachers (some even with masters degrees) as opposed to the high-turnover baby-sitter style "teachers" we had at daycare. The classroom approach is great for curious kids to learn at their own pace, and to learn about what interests them. Montessori has also been great at making him very independent as they help teach and encourage the kids to do for themselves what they are able to do. Our school also offers extra activities like music, dance, gymnastics, piano lessons, field trips, but that will be unique school-to-school I'm sure.

We aren't doing Montessori beyond preschool, but for this age I have really been impressed.

DiscoDriveby wrote:
LeapingGnome wrote:

Has anyone put their kid in Montessori school and can share their opinion? Or looked at them and decided against it? Our daughter will be 2 in May and we are looking at various school options.

Our son is in Montessori preschool, and it's been great for him. He had been in daycare centers since he was 3 months old, and around 2.5/3 we decided to try Montessori. He's halfway through his second school year now. The learning experience is far better than anything we saw in daycare. The teachers have all been there a long time, and are professionally prepared as teachers (some even with masters degrees) as opposed to the high-turnover baby-sitter style "teachers" we had at daycare. The classroom approach is great for curious kids to learn at their own pace, and to learn about what interests them. Montessori has also been great at making him very independent as they help teach and encourage the kids to do for themselves what they are able to do. Our school also offers extra activities like music, dance, gymnastics, piano lessons, field trips, but that will be unique school-to-school I'm sure.

We aren't doing Montessori beyond preschool, but for this age I have really been impressed.

What about cost of Montessori vs daycare?

garion333 wrote:

What about cost of Montessori vs daycare?

For us it was a difference of a couple hundred for a year. So essentially the same amount with the added benefit of having more to do and more to learn.

Can't speak to Montessori per se, but my daughter's been in a Waldorf-inspired preschool, and I mostly agree with DiscoDerby in that I see the benefit to an approach like that tailing off as the kid ages. At 4 years old, it's brilliant.

And cost-wise, it wasn't that much more. Although, that said, the preschool is closing at the end of March because it's not making enough money, so there's that....

We also did a Waldorf- style preschool that was outdoors only. He loved it and we see it had a huge impact on his self confidence and social skills that have carried over to his conventional kindergarten.

I went to a Montessori preschool, and I turned out alright. Well, mostly.
That's all I've got. Mildly pertinent, anecdotal evidence. FWIW.

Seriously though? I still have very vivid memories of it. The very structured yet open ended learning was great for me.