NFL 2017 Week 17 Thread

karmajay wrote:

Gruden never had a good QB though in those years after Brad Johnson's arm fell off.

Historically, the Bucs suck in general. The Raiders had Crypt Keeper Al Davis for a number of years there that explained their suckitude. The Bucs were one step above the (modern) Browns for most of their history.

Most teams have sucked almost their entire time in the league or for huge swaths of time. (Cowboys living off the early 90s anyone?)

Bucs did have a good reason they sucked until the 90s. Hugh Culverhouse. Read up on it sometime flyboy.

Hugh Culverhouse has to be on the short list of worst owners ever. He won't top it, but he belongs on that list.

As for Gruden, he never had a good QB because Gruden went out of his way to not have a good QB; he convinced himself Chris Simms was the answer and had Brian Griese as a starter twice, rookie Bruce Gradkowski, and an old Jeff Garcia who panicked before pressure and fled the pocket. Gruden was the coach from 2002-2008, and his draft picks at QB were:
- 2003, Chris Simms, 3rd round
- 2006, Bruce Gradkowski, 6th round
- 2008, Josh Johnson, 5th round

Gruden seemed convinced he was going to be able to create another late-career Rich Gannon and revitalize guys like Griese or Garcia. The Bucs' draft history during his tenure was utterly godawful, and he was also known as a guy who grated on veterans enough they didn't want to come there. I would take a stab in the eye before I'd take Gruden as HC again.

That being said . . .

Koetter is sticking around for another year, reportedly. I am completely fine with this; he's an offensive-minded head coach, and there was some definite improvement in lots of phases of the offense this year. I'm wondering if Mike Smith will be leaving as DC, as the Bucs' pass defense has been historically awful. Probably would help if the first-round CB from 2016 (Vernon Hargreaves) wasn't basically boiling feces on toast.

Well, I think the issue was (in my head canon) that they always did well enough to NOT have a draft pick where they could grab one of the good QBs.

I'm sure someone will pull the data to prove me wrong though.

karmajay wrote:

Well, I think the issue was (in my head canon) that they always did well enough to NOT have a draft pick where they could grab one of the good QBs.

I'm sure someone will pull the data to prove me wrong though.

There were lots of QBs drafted in that time frame; Gruden just didn't draft QBs. Always seemed to me he felt he was enough of an offensive genius he didn't need a highly-drafted QB to succeed. It worked with Gannon, and it worked with Brad Johnson, so why wouldn't it work again?

Gruden kicked butt with Dungy's roster, and was a terrible coach who feuded with his players after that. I dread the concept of Jon Gruden thinking he can take a decade off and suddenly bring his "offensive magic" back to a league that left his thinking and concepts behind years ago. He'd be a train wreck.

Gruden kicked butt with Dungy's roster

Ok you can say the defense stayed the same but a big chunk of the roster changed that year. I can give Dungy credit for the defense Gruden deserves the credit for changing the roster and getting the offense to click.

jowner wrote:

Davante Adams signs an extension.

BOOOOOOOOO

MilkmanDanimal wrote:

Carolina Panthers at Atlanta Falcons: This is simple; the Falcons win at home in week 17, they make the playoffs. My personal and not at all petty and childish hope is they build up a multi-touchdown lead, and wind up losing the game when Matt Ryan literally craps himself and the ball slips out of his slimy hands and bounds into the end zone, where Julius Peppers recovers for a TD. And then vomits, because poop and all.

Eh, I'll take it. I took Giant Meteor (and the points) in last week's Saints-Falcons game. That's 10 bucks I'll never see again.

So here's how the South might go down:

If Carolina wins and the Saints lose to the Bucs (GO TAMPA GO), Carolina is your NFC South champ. (The Panthers could be the No. 2 overall seed if the Saints, Vikings and Rams all lose. True story.)

If Carolina loses, the Saints (urp) are the NFC South winners no matter what the Saints do Sunday.

The 28-3s can win a wild card if they beat Carolina or if Seattle loses. But if ATL loses and Seattle wins, Seattle is your second NFC wild card. (Carolina or New Orleans will be the other, depending.) (Source.)

I give zero sh*ts about the AFC these days.

*Legion* wrote:
jowner wrote:

Davante Adams signs an extension.

BOOOOOOOOO

I'm sure the extension makes cap sense. Looks like a high first year, manageable average and 4 years which is nice.

Maybe the you get to play with Rodgers discount on the years.

Sure there's some cap juggling that will have to come but not worried.

As for the playoff scenario going into the weekend. You can get the Seahawks to win the SB at 41:1.

The team is by no means well rounded but 41:1 that Wilson gets in and just does silly things and Seattle is suddenly in the SB is not unimaginable.

jowner wrote:
*Legion* wrote:
jowner wrote:

Davante Adams signs an extension.

BOOOOOOOOO

I'm sure the extension makes cap sense. Looks like a high first year, manageable average and 4 years which is nice.

Maybe the you get to play with Rodgers discount on the years.

Sure there's some cap juggling that will have to come but not worried.

I mean BOOOOOOO he was supposed to hit the market and become a 49er.

I don't like to praise Dan very much, but... A+ on the banner art this week.

*Legion* wrote:

I don't like to praise Dan very much, but... A+ on the banner art this week.

Willing to replace it with a picture of UpToIsomorphism passed out drunk on the floor after they lose tomorrow, if he likes.

So if the Browns lose, Excedrin is chippi g in $10,000 for the Perfect Season Parade. If the Browns win (and thus there isn’t a parade) they are donating the money to the Cleveland Food Bank.

All I’m saying is if you don’t want people to go hungry, root for the Browns.

Damn them!

*Legion* wrote:
jowner wrote:
*Legion* wrote:
jowner wrote:

Davante Adams signs an extension.

BOOOOOOOOO

I'm sure the extension makes cap sense. Looks like a high first year, manageable average and 4 years which is nice.

Maybe the you get to play with Rodgers discount on the years.

Sure there's some cap juggling that will have to come but not worried.

I mean BOOOOOOO he was supposed to hit the market and become a 49er.

Oh. I know. That's why I ran to post that here as I have no real positive Packers news otherwise.

Resign the player that Legion has a crush on? Win win.

Any Giants fans in the house? I think you'll like Dave Gettleman as your GM. He's ruthless, which is how the Giants lost their VP for player evaluation and their starting right tackle within two days of Gettleman starting work. If the Giants are looking to move on from Eli, he's the man to do it.

Gettleman was fired from Carolina because he didn't measure up on Jeans Day.

I'm glad the Niners found their QB, because even though this draft is full of QBs, I don't really feel great about any of them.

Also, the Jags should go for a veteran QB and not a high draft pick either.

*Legion* wrote:

Gettleman was fired from Carolina because he didn't measure up on Jeans Day.

Marty Hurney doesn't have a great ass, either. But he's willing to give Thomas Davis everything he wanted, which is why Gettleman is in New York.

Enix wrote:

Marty Hurney doesn't have a great ass, either.

Thanks for the new sig quote.

*Legion* wrote:

Thanks for the new sig quote.

Cam says, Don't mention it, big fellow.

IMAGE(http://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/scott-fowler/cb3fu1/picture189089524/alternates/FREE_1140/ScottFowlerCamHat1.jpg)

Cam looks like he runs an antique shop that occasionally sells a cursed item.

But mostly sells hookahs.

"The playbook contains a wheel route that turns into a slant for an easy touchdown."

"That's good."

"The playbook also contains Potassium Benzoate."

"Can I go now?"

Buckle up, folks, as Mort and Shefty are reporting that the Raiders are going after Jon Gruden with a possible stake in ownership. Is that how you make up with a former head coach after trading him at the turn of the century?

So the Gruden rumors might be true, just not Tampa. Intrigue!

More intrigue: at least one NFC personnel exec thinks the Browns will choose Wyoming's Josh Allen over Rosen, Darnold, and the rest of the QB field for the #1 pick.

Way too early for that talk.

garion333 wrote:

Way too early for that talk.

Nonsense. Of course an NFC personnel exec knows who a newly hired AFC GM is going to draft before the Senior Bowl and Combine. It's all just scripted by the Patriots anyway.

Rat Boy wrote:

Buckle up, folks, as Mort and Shefty are reporting that the Raiders are going after Jon Gruden with a possible stake in ownership. Is that how you make up with a former head coach after trading him at the turn of the century?

Oh, FFS. Like I need another reason to despise my (soon to be) local team.

I'm in the minority out here, but I am not happy the Raiders are coming to town.

The "reports" today claim:

* Pagano is getting fired from Indy
* John Fox is getting fired from Chicago
* Vance Joseph is in serious Jeopardy of being fired in Denver
* Raiders will keep Del Rio if Gruden turns them down
* Bruce Arians is indeed walking away from the Cardinals job
* Dom Capers won't return as Packers DC, and the Pack are eyeballing former 49ers/current Bears DC Vic Fangio for the spot
* Texans are keeping O'Brien, with a big meeting with ownership scheduled for Monday to iron out current issues
* Titans are likely to fire Mularkey if they lose to the Jags, making me very conflicted about that game's outcome (since the Jags are the 3 seed no matter what)
* Pete Carroll is seriously considering retirement
* Tom Cable is expected to get serious consideration for the Seahawks job if Carroll does leave (oh please happen)
* Jim Caldwell is expected to be fired from Detroit
* Marvin Lewis is expected to pursue a front office or coaching job with another team

*Legion* wrote:

* Jim Caldwell is expected to be fired from Detroit

Whither Jim Bob Cooter?

iaintgotnopants wrote:
*Legion* wrote:

* Jim Caldwell is expected to be fired from Detroit

Whither Jim Bob Cooter?

Ian Rapoport says the expectation is that they'll hire a defensive-minded guy who would keep the current offensive setup in place, presumably meaning JBC stays.

However, Cooter's name has been mentioned in regards to some head coaching vacancies, so... who knows