Star Wars:The Last Jedi (SPOILERS!!!!)

I'd like to think I just solved it, pyxi, thank you very much.

jamos5 wrote:

Holdo being uncommunicative.

Second time around, I paid special attention to this, as i felt it was a stumbling block first time around. But no, it's not a problem. Holdo and Poe literally talk two times -- first time is when she's just taken over command after the high command has been spaced, and this flyboy jagoff that just got the entire bomber squad killed in violation of direct orders from Leia gets all in her face before she's even got a chance to get her bearings. Second time around, sure she's getting all flowery instead of blunt, but he doesn't even give her the time to finish before he spots the transport fueling and gets all up in her face about being a coward and a traitor.

(Also, people who claim that there's a plot hole because people don't sneak away like Finn and Rose -- *that is literally the plan before Poe and co f*ck it up.*)

jamos5 wrote:

Second, the fourth wall breaking humor, which often messed up the pacing and undercut any tension that had been building up, in addition to being just plain jarring. Examples of this are Poe's crank call and Luke throwing the Lightsaber over his shoulder.

I don't remember any characters directly addressing the audience.

jamos5 wrote:

The film was pretty much all about ignoring or rejecting the premises made by the first film or even by the fans themselves.

The fans sure concocted some premises alright. I don't think Rian was rejecting anything so much as digging deep into logical next steps that best served the characters dramatically (and for Kylo, that meant offing Snoke).

As for J.J. leaving Rian nothing to work with, it's a baton handoff. They talked about where things might go. I honestly see the Rey lineage revelation as baked into TFA. Rian also wrote TLJ before TFA was released, so the process wasn't subject to those narratives that gained steam in the aftermath (who are Rey's parents, who is Snoke, etc.)

Slumberland wrote:
jamos5 wrote:

Second, the fourth wall breaking humor, which often messed up the pacing and undercut any tension that had been building up, in addition to being just plain jarring. Examples of this are Poe's crank call and Luke throwing the Lightsaber over his shoulder.

I don't remember any characters directly addressing the audience.

They came just about as close to that as they could. When I say fourth wall breaking, I mean stuff happening in the film that wouldn't have happened if it wasn't a film. It's like a joke being told that would only make sense for the audience watching the film, and not for the people within it.

Like that crank call by Poe. That would have never happened in the OT. Star Destroyers were too powerful and it'd take a full fleet to take one down. On top of that crank calls are more like a modern phone thing, and up until now there hasn't really been any evidence to suggest that their communications behave that way. And finally Hux's response? Any real commander of the Empire would have just blown the guy to smithereens. Instead like an idiot, he played along with the joke. Some could say that was in character for him but for me it felt quite unrealistic.

The point is, if it hadn't been in a movie, that joke would have never happened. And I'm sorry but I'm not going to Star Wars to be immersed in silly jokes like in the Marvel films. Up until now they've played these people are real characters in a real world, and this joke totally pulled away from that.

"But, uh, everything's perfectly all right now. We're fine. We're all fine here, now, thank you. How are you?"

Boring conversation anyway.

cube wrote:

"But, uh, everything's perfectly all right now. We're fine. We're all fine here, now, thank you. How are you?"

Yep I thought someone might bring that up. My argument is that still fits in universe. It was done for a reason that made sense at the moment, rather than the Poe crank call which doesn't fit contextually.

jamos5 wrote:
cube wrote:

"But, uh, everything's perfectly all right now. We're fine. We're all fine here, now, thank you. How are you?"

Yep I thought someone might bring that up. My argument is that still fits in universe. It was done for a reason that made sense at the moment, rather than the Poe crank call which doesn't fit contextually.

He was stalling to power up his booster rocket before they launched their TIEs.

jamos5 wrote:

On top of that crank calls are more like a modern phone thing, and up until now there hasn't really been any evidence to suggest that their communications behave that way.

Behaving which way? Ship-to-ship communication? We see that all the time.

And finally Hux's response? Any real commander of the Empire would have just blown the guy to smithereens. Instead like an idiot, he played along with the joke. Some could say that was in character for him but for me it felt quite unrealistic.

I mean, that's kinda the point, isn't it? Snoke even says so -- Hux isn't an Imperial commander, he's a flunky who's kept around as a useful idiot. Furthermore, we see the reaction in that same scene from other FO commanders who aren't idiots and they behave exactly as you'd expect.

PaladinTom wrote:
jamos5 wrote:
cube wrote:

"But, uh, everything's perfectly all right now. We're fine. We're all fine here, now, thank you. How are you?"

Yep I thought someone might bring that up. My argument is that still fits in universe. It was done for a reason that made sense at the moment, rather than the Poe crank call which doesn't fit contextually.

He was stalling to power up his booster rocket before they launched their TIEs.

Right -- the context is actually very similar between the two.

jamos5 wrote:
cube wrote:

"But, uh, everything's perfectly all right now. We're fine. We're all fine here, now, thank you. How are you?"

Yep I thought someone might bring that up. My argument is that still fits in universe. It was done for a reason that made sense at the moment, rather than the Poe crank call which doesn't fit contextually.

Why doesn't it fit contextually. Poe was stalling and using Hux's vanity. Now I do feel the Hux character is kind of dumb. He is no Grand Moff Tarkin.

PaladinTom wrote:
jamos5 wrote:
cube wrote:

"But, uh, everything's perfectly all right now. We're fine. We're all fine here, now, thank you. How are you?"

Yep I thought someone might bring that up. My argument is that still fits in universe. It was done for a reason that made sense at the moment, rather than the Poe crank call which doesn't fit contextually.

He was stalling to power up his booster rocket before they launched their TIEs.

Yeah but I had a whole paragraph a page ago how that entire joke didn't fit in universe. The Empire wouldn't just sit there and let him make a joke -- at least not the Empire that I thought we had. Apparently this new Empire is a cheap joke, with the biggest idiot Hux at the helm. If that seems plausible and acceptable to you then I don't know what to tell you. I liked it better when people used to actually be afraid of the Empire.

Han's little joke on the Death Star didn't have nearly as many implications.

jamos5 wrote:

I liked it better when people used to actually be afraid of the Empire.

Uh, wasn't the entire Rebellion made of people who fundamentally weren't afraid of the Empire?

Also, the beginning of Empire Strikes Back has a communication setup very similar to what we saw there.

Only Vader choked the guy.

jamos5 wrote:
PaladinTom wrote:
jamos5 wrote:
cube wrote:

"But, uh, everything's perfectly all right now. We're fine. We're all fine here, now, thank you. How are you?"

Yep I thought someone might bring that up. My argument is that still fits in universe. It was done for a reason that made sense at the moment, rather than the Poe crank call which doesn't fit contextually.

He was stalling to power up his booster rocket before they launched their TIEs.

Apparently this new Empire is a cheap joke, with the biggest idiot Hux at the helm. If that seems plausible and acceptable to you then I don't know what to tell you. I liked it better when people used to actually be afraid of the Empire.

Hux was way overconfident at the start of the film. Even though they they lost Starkiller base, they decimated the Republic and now are about to finish off the rebels with a dreadnaught plus they still have the tracker if they manage to flee.

Over the course of the movie they destroyed every rebel ship and wore them down to maybe forty people. I found them plenty scary.

Fair enough that it doesn't work for you. I wasn't feeling it myself, at first, but I've come around to viewing the humor in the film as the director's spin on Star Wars, which is something we haven't had in Star Wars before.

As for Hux, I think his flaws are part of the point of the film. The First Order isn't the Empire. It doesn't mean that they aren't scary--at least, I don't feel less scared of armed bullies because they're emotionally unstable.

Watched the movie again. Kind of feel the same about it mostly.

One interesting thing is I didn't realize I fell asleep the first time I seen the movie. The first go around I fell asleep as soon as Finn, Rose, and DJ broke out of lockup and woke when they were on his ship. I figured they made it to his ship without incident. So I missed the horse ride chaos through the city and casino. Honestly I didn't mind the scene but it wasn't needed at all. Cutting it wouldn't have changed anything.

PaladinTom wrote:

Over the course of the movie they destroyed every rebel ship and wore them down to maybe forty people. I found them plenty scary.

Yeah I didn’t. Combining Poe’s rediculous crank call, his miraculous solo onslaught, and the empire’s tactical incompetencies, I felt like the only reason they were winning at all was because that is what the script demanded. I couldn’t take them seriously the entire film — and as a result my overall enjoyment suffered.

jamos5 wrote:

I couldn’t take them seriously the entire film — and as a result my overall enjoyment suffered.

Same!

jamos5 wrote:

Second, the fourth wall breaking humor, which often messed up the pacing and undercut any tension that had been building up, in addition to being just plain jarring. Examples of this are Poe's crank call and Luke throwing the Lightsaber over his shoulder.

Undercutting expectations was the entire point of Luke chucking the lightsaber. It handily shows that he’s no longer the hero everyone sees him as while simultaneously referencing both Luke discarding his lightsaber when facing Palpatine in Return of the Jedi and Yoda’s behavior when Luke first meets him in Empire Strikes Back. That whole sequence is probably one of the best scenes in the series.

ruhk wrote:
jamos5 wrote:

Second, the fourth wall breaking humor, which often messed up the pacing and undercut any tension that had been building up, in addition to being just plain jarring. Examples of this are Poe's crank call and Luke throwing the Lightsaber over his shoulder.

Undercutting expectations was the entire point of Luke chucking the lightsaber. It handily shows that he’s no longer the hero everyone sees him as while simultaneously referencing both Luke discarding his lightsaber when facing Palpatine in Return of the Jedi and Yoda’s behavior when Luke first meets him in Empire Strikes Back. That whole sequence is probably one of the best scenes in the series.

See, I think that scene is iconic of the entire controversy surrounding this film. It’s very divisive, and bold, and you are either going to love it or you are going to hate it.

For me, it shows a kind of indelicacy towards the franchise and the previous film. I mean, this is the resolution of a cliffhanger that fans have been salivating over for two years now, or even since ROTJ came out since we finally get to see what Luke has been up to. And now that it’s finally here... he throws the lightsaber away like it’s a piece of trash.

Which is crazy to think about in detail. This is the weapon his father used, and his mentor Obiwan Kenobi kept it for decades before finally passing it on to him. It’s a weapon that carried him through multiple battles and stands as an icon of his entire life’s progression — and he just threw it away like it was nothing.

Now either that is going to really bother you (like it did with me), or you are going to think it’s brilliant cause it’s such a bold statement. Or, you might just be like the likely majority of viewers who just thought it was a funny moment. It’s just a fun silly joke that you’d be just as likely to find in the Marvel films.

It’s just a really divisive scene that I think reveals a lot about how each individual sees Star Wars. Many of us see that scene as an embarrassment and wish it had never happened. But admittedly, we are a minority voice. What’s done is done, and It’s just a sign that the foundations of Star Wars are no longer able to be as sacred as they used to be. It’s growing pains, and as much as it bothers me it’s clear that my opinions are no longer going to be the focus. My only hope is that what we get in the future is a worthy exchange for what was given up.

Eh. I definitely agree with Kylo Ren- we need to let our old, dusty nostalgic Star Wars die so that something new can grow in it’s place (just because he’s evil doesn’t mean he’s wrong )

For the record: I loved the humour, and the comedy timing on the crank call and the throwing the lightsabre over the shoulder was perfect!

billt721 wrote:

For as much as Hamill didn't like the way Luke was written, he absolutely killed his role. For me, his performance was the best of the new batch of movies, which is kinda astonishing given that his career has been much more defined by voice work than acting and, well, 'good performance' and Star Wars are words rarely used in the same sentence. So kudos to the writing and directing teams on TLJ, and Hamill himself of course.

In these divisive times, there is something that we all can agree on. Especially because what was his last major live-action performance? Wing Commander 4?

Iridium884 wrote:
billt721 wrote:

For as much as Hamill didn't like the way Luke was written, he absolutely killed his role. For me, his performance was the best of the new batch of movies, which is kinda astonishing given that his career has been much more defined by voice work than acting and, well, 'good performance' and Star Wars are words rarely used in the same sentence. So kudos to the writing and directing teams on TLJ, and Hamill himself of course.

In these divisive times, there is something that we all can agree on. Especially because what was his last major live-action performance? Wing Commander 4?

No, he was the main villain on the The Flash tv show for two episodes and a bad guy in Jay and Silent Bob strike Back.

Which is crazy to think about in detail. This is the weapon his father used, and his mentor Obiwan Kenobi kept it for decades before finally passing it on to him. It’s a weapon that carried him through multiple battles and stands as an icon of his entire life’s progression — and he just threw it away like it was nothing.

Or. he has been trying to stay away from the force and people for years and years and all of a sudden this saber, which hold so much meaning AND RESPONSIBILITY shows up out of nowhere. To me, it is a toss of exasperation. "Just another day the Force tries to bring me back into the Galaxy's problems" he thinks.

Just when I thought I was out... it Force-pulls me back in!

pyxistyx wrote:

For the record: I loved the humour, and the comedy timing on the crank call and the throwing the lightsabre over the shoulder was perfect!

Same! I really enjoyed it all, just like Pyxi.

IMAGE(https://i.imgur.com/yR8b3ji.png)

karmajay wrote:
Which is crazy to think about in detail. This is the weapon his father used, and his mentor Obiwan Kenobi kept it for decades before finally passing it on to him. It’s a weapon that carried him through multiple battles and stands as an icon of his entire life’s progression — and he just threw it away like it was nothing.

Or. he has been trying to stay away from the force and people for years and years and all of a sudden this saber, which hold so much meaning AND RESPONSIBILITY shows up out of nowhere. To me, it is a toss of exasperation. "Just another day the Force tries to bring me back into the Galaxy's problems" he thinks.

Personally, I didn't find this moment funny at all, and it confused me when the theatre laughed. I felt it was very much a teaching moment, like all of Luke in TLJ. "Don't listen to the stories," the moment says. "Legends aren't what you think they are; this hunk of metal isn't sacred."

I'm not sifting through 17 pages to see if this has been asked and answered, but was I the only one getting close calls with death fatigue at the end?

Rat Boy wrote:

I'm not sifting through 17 pages to see if this has been asked and answered, but was I the only one getting close calls with death fatigue at the end?

Not I since Star Wars has always been "heroes seconds away from death"