NFL 2017 Week 15 Thread

GioClark wrote:
*Legion* wrote:

Fumbling out of bounds just in front of the pylon puts the ball at the 1-inch line. Fumbling it just behind the pylon gives the defense the ball at their own 20.

Can you even fumble behind the pylon since you've broken the plane at that point?

I recognize that the rule exists to prevent manipulating the ball on the ground to prevent an opponent's recovery but jeez. What a way to lose that game.

Saying this as the resident Raiders fan..

Yeah, I don't think you can fumble in the end zone because then it just be an incomplete pass. You can fumble before the end zone and have it roll out of bounds out of the end zone though.

Edit: Just read what happened at the end of the Raiders game. Painful.

EvilDead wrote:
GioClark wrote:
*Legion* wrote:

Fumbling out of bounds just in front of the pylon puts the ball at the 1-inch line. Fumbling it just behind the pylon gives the defense the ball at their own 20.

Can you even fumble behind the pylon since you've broken the plane at that point?

I recognize that the rule exists to prevent manipulating the ball on the ground to prevent an opponent's recovery but jeez. What a way to lose that game.

Saying this as the resident Raiders fan..

Yeah, I don't think you can fumble in the end zone because then it just be an incomplete pass. You can fumble before the end zone and have it roll out of bounds out of the end zone though.

It's a good week of football when the Monday morning talk is about the intricacies of when a catch is a catch and fumbling in the end zone.

There has got to be better ways to handle these two things.

Aaron Donald is getting my DPOY vote:

IMAGE(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DRVip_nV4AE0vsz.jpg:large)

In the first half alone, Donald registered pressure in the form of a hit, hurry, or sack on over one-quarter of his pass-rush snaps, an absurd rate for an interior defender. Officially, he finished the game with three sacks, four quarterback hits, two tackles for a loss, and a forced fumble.

Like I said about the Hawks taking a OL in the draft:

IMAGE(https://media.giphy.com/media/xT0xeEufgKxFN2jAlO/giphy.gif)

That's a goddamn double team!

More here.

*Legion* wrote:

Bortles is destroying the Texans defense.

They've hardly done anything running. It's all Bortles.

Just when I give up on him, BORTLESMANIA emerges to fulfill the prophecies!

EDIT: Marqise Lee, Allen Hurns, and of course Allen Robinson all out. Bortles throwing to Keelan Cole, Dede Westbrook, and return man Jaylon Mickens.

246 yards, 3 TDs in the first half.

Jaydon Mickens is my new favorite player.

Also, I love that he's so unknown even All World Jags fan Legion spelled his name incorrectly.

The more I think about it, the more important I think it was to the Eagles-Giants game that the Eagles Defense was able to smack so many kicks out of the air.

That victory really was too close for comfort.

ccesarano wrote:

The more I think about it, the more important I think it was to the Eagles-Giants game that the Eagles Special Teams was able to smack so many kicks out of the air.

That victory really was too close for comfort.

FTFY

I realize that the Giants are division rivals and all, but the no show the defense made for most of yesterday has got to be a wake up call because you can't do that in the playoffs. The fact the Eagles won almost entirely because of three fluke plays on ST is bad.

True point. I'm still not absolutely clear on some of these terms and I just view that as Defense. But you're right, it was the special teams defense specifically as the rest of the defense was dropping the ball.

I haven't seen griping from my typical Eagles friends on Facebook, but a whole lot of salt from Steelers fans. But that's no surprise.

garion333 wrote:
ccesarano wrote:

The more I think about it, the more important I think it was to the Eagles-Giants game that the Eagles Special Teams was able to smack so many kicks out of the air.

That victory really was too close for comfort.

FTFY

I realize that the Giants are division rivals and all, but the no show the defense made for most of yesterday has got to be a wake up call because you can't do that in the playoffs. The fact the Eagles won almost entirely because of three fluke plays on ST is bad.

The defense is bad.. its been partially masked by being out in front in so many games against many bad teams.. it was largely fugazi and everyone who actually has half a brain knew this in Philly so no big shock.

Nobody really expected even with Wentz to be more than a 7 win team.. so the fact that they are looking at 12 and maybe even 13 wins is a big shock and partially because the NFC east was terrible this year and Elliot got suspended 6 games.

I would guess every other NFC playoff team will be a road favorite against the Eagles in the Divisional Round.

GioClark wrote:
*Legion* wrote:

Fumbling out of bounds just in front of the pylon puts the ball at the 1-inch line. Fumbling it just behind the pylon gives the defense the ball at their own 20.

Yeah I was being a bit brief in my wording. What I mean in both cases is if you lose the ball short of the goal line, and how far it bounces before exiting the field of play.

garion333 wrote:
*Legion* wrote:

Bortles is destroying the Texans defense.

They've hardly done anything running. It's all Bortles.

Just when I give up on him, BORTLESMANIA emerges to fulfill the prophecies!

EDIT: Marqise Lee, Allen Hurns, and of course Allen Robinson all out. Bortles throwing to Keelan Cole, Dede Westbrook, and return man Jaylon Mickens.

246 yards, 3 TDs in the first half.

Jaydon Mickens is my new favorite player.

Also, I love that he's so unknown even All World Jags fan Legion spelled his name incorrectly.

Autocorrect doesn't like "Jaydon"!

TheGameguru wrote:

Nobody really expected even with Wentz to be more than a 7 win team.. so the fact that they are looking at 12 and maybe even 13 wins is a big shock and partially because the NFC east was terrible this year and Elliot got suspended 6 games.

This is one of the things that has me worried. Right now, it looks like the entire team is getting along, minimum drama, it's a real role model of what an NFL team should be... but they're also winning.

What happens if their record ends up being 4-12 or something? Will they still keep their chin up and get along? Or will all that good will and happiness we see fall apart?

As a Ravens fan, I have been really pleased by the play of Nose Tackle Brandon Williams. So when I heard on the radio this morning that Brandon Williams (Tight End from the Colts) was out for the Colts vs. Ravens game with a concussion, I momentarily freaked until I realized that they also have a Brandon Williams.

I mentioned this to one of my coworkers who is also named Brandon Williams and he told me to get a life.

Re: the Steelers non-TD at the end, I just think it's very hard to come up with an alternative rule. If it was changed, then a lot of plays that are called an incompletion today would become a catch-fumble in the future with a lot more turnovers. Is that what people want? Maybe it is, I dunno, I'm just a brit who only learned the rules in the last few years, but it helps that I'm not emotionally invested.

kergguz wrote:

Re: the Steelers non-TD at the end, I just think it's very hard to come up with an alternative rule. If it was changed, then a lot of plays that are called an incompletion today would become a catch-fumble in the future with a lot more turnovers. Is that what people want? Maybe it is, I dunno, I'm just a brit who only learned the rules in the last few years, but it helps that I'm not emotionally invested.

He made a controlled football move while going to the ground. I'd give him the TD.

I'm even more permissive for catch rules. I wouldn't require a "football move".

Two hands secure on the ball, two feet (or knee or butt or whatever), it's a catch. I don't care what comes next. It just not need to be more complicated than that.

It would certainly rejuvenate offenses a bit.

I can't remember where I read it today, but the current rule makes it so you want to try and not score and that's just dumb. Instead your goal is to secure the catch short of the goal line to fulfill the rules, then you can try and score.

I think it's natural to want to reach out and score. Let's go with natural.

Maintaining control of the ball doesn’t seem like an outrageous standard for making a catch. The league is already heavily weighted towards the offense.

It's a rule though that leads to stupid sh*t like this.. not to mention last night which everyone who has watched football for some time knows was a touchdown.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dO8-...

Hue Jackson reportedly "thinking about" benching DeShone Kizer.

Because with nothing left to play for this season, Jackson wants to at least squeeze in one last vote of no confidence for his young QB.

Jerry Richardson stepping aside immediately. Sounds like they're hoping that by doing this now the story will blow over before, as Dan Le Batard on ESPN speculated, a worse story about Richardson's actions comes out.

Just saw the Oakland play. Not sure what the complaint is. Carr pretty much tossed it into the end zone in an effort to hit the pylon. If anything I’d like to see the touching the pylon automatically = td and the same for a runner touching the invisible goal line changed. They both encourage erratic and uncontrolled lunges with the ball to get a cheap td. Make these guys maintain control and get into the end zone.

JeremyK wrote:

Just saw the Oakland play. Not sure what the complaint is.

The complaint is about "The Dumbest Rule in Football".

Carr fumbles. Ball goes forward. If it crosses out of bounds at the 1-inch line, the ball returns to the spot where Carr lost it (not where it went out), Oakland has the ball for 4th-and-goal.

Since the ball went a few inches further before going out of bounds, it becomes a turnover, touchback, Dallas ball on their 25. Game over.

That is stupid. Nowhere else does fumbling out of bounds turn into a turnover. It's a massive shift in the game in which the defense does literally nothing to earn it.

It's inconsistent and for absolutely no good reason, because the rule that is in place for the entire rest of the field works just as well in this scenario: the ball is retained by the offense at the spot in which possession was lost. You can't fumble it out of the endzone for a TD, there's no scenario there where you intentionally fumble the ball for some sort of gain.

It's like having a rule where if you get called for pass interference on 2nd downs, it's different from every other down. There's no point to it. It's inconsistent for inconsistency's sake.

I like it for the reasons I stated. Rewards great defensive plays and punishes sloppy ball control. It’s particularly great when showboaters start dancing into the end zone and get stripped.

Now if we’re talking about a penalty that I find too punishing than I’d love if they change the pass interference rules. Don’t like how it automatically puts the ball at position of the foul.

JeremyK wrote:

I like it for the reasons I stated. Rewards great defensive plays and punishes sloppy ball control. It’s particularly great when showboaters start dancing into the end zone and get stripped.

Now if we’re talking about a penalty that I find too punishing than I’d love if they change the pass interference rules. Don’t like how it automatically puts the ball at position of the foul.

Let’s be real you like it because it’s rules like that that have benefited the Patriots for the last what 18 seasons? From the Tuck Rule to the one you just commented on that probably saved them this year against the Jets.

Again reverse positions and stadiums and if that’s Gronk at the end zone that exact same play stays a touchdown and Tom Brady makes another thousand BFF’s around the country.

I don’t think fumbling into the end zone should cost you possession anymore than fumbling out of bounds. If the defense wants the ball, they need to possess it.

I’d take moving it back to the 20 if you really want to punish the offense. But it just feels wrong that the offense loses possesssion when the defense doesn’t even touch the ball.

TheGameguru wrote:
JeremyK wrote:

I like it for the reasons I stated. Rewards great defensive plays and punishes sloppy ball control. It’s particularly great when showboaters start dancing into the end zone and get stripped.

Now if we’re talking about a penalty that I find too punishing than I’d love if they change the pass interference rules. Don’t like how it automatically puts the ball at position of the foul.

Let’s be real you like it because it’s rules like that that have benefited the Patriots for the last what 18 seasons? From the Tuck Rule to the one you just commented on that probably saved them this year against the Jets.

Again reverse positions and stadiums and if that’s Gronk at the end zone that exact same play stays a touchdown and Tom Brady makes another thousand BFF’s around the country.

That’s quite a bit of your own biases slipping in right there if we’re getting real. I think pretty much everyone agrees the tuck rule was dumb and it was changed for a reason.

None of the rules I mention help Tom Brady in any way. They all benefit the defense. So not sure where you got that impression other than the fact you detest Pats fans and feel the need to make it known over and over again.

Enix wrote:
*Legion* wrote:

I'm gonna draft Cam a legitimate WR.

Much obliged. But in the meantime ...

Clay Matthews: It's that wheel route, it's that wheel route

Cam Newton: You been watching film, huh?

Matthews: Yeah

Cam: That's cool. Watch this

Cam: Slant to McCaffrey TD

(source)

Cam is feeling it right now. I'm starting to like Carolina's chances.

I missed this earlier, but this only strengthens my plan to build around Cam as Panthers GM.

Sure glad I started McCaffrey this week in Dynasty league. I had him benched after Stewart ate up all the work the previous week, but I changed my mind and went with McCaffrey after all.

Rat Boy wrote:

Jerry Richardson stepping aside immediately. Sounds like they're hoping that by doing this now the story will blow over before, as Dan Le Batard on ESPN speculated, a worse story about Richardson's actions comes out.

My gut tells me that Richardson is a league guy and doesn't want to put the league through having to take his sorry ass out to the woodshed.

Also, it's an admission that he's guilty without actually, you know, admitting anything.

In unrelated Panthers news, LB Thomas Davis was suspended two games because Gronk was suspended just one.

That's not intended to be a Patriots-bashing statement. I think the league realized that (a) it let Gronk off way too easy for doing more or less the same thing (giving a defenseless guy a concussion), and (b) if the league wants to get players' attention, they're going to have to do better than just one game.

Enix wrote:
Rat Boy wrote:

Jerry Richardson stepping aside immediately. Sounds like they're hoping that by doing this now the story will blow over before, as Dan Le Batard on ESPN speculated, a worse story about Richardson's actions comes out.

My gut tells me that Richardson is a league guy and doesn't want to put the league through having to take his sorry ass out to the woodshed.

Also, it's an admission that he's guilty without actually, you know, admitting anything.

In unrelated Panthers news, LB Thomas Davis was suspended two games because Gronk was suspended just one.

That's not intended to be a Patriots-bashing statement. I think the league realized that (a) it let Gronk off way too easy for doing more or less the same thing (giving a defenseless guy a concussion), and (b) if the league wants to get players' attention, they're going to have to do better than just one game.

Probably, though I'm not sure why they let Bennett off the hook last week if that was the case. Seemed more analogous to the Gronk hit.

Enix wrote:
Rat Boy wrote:

Jerry Richardson stepping aside immediately. Sounds like they're hoping that by doing this now the story will blow over before, as Dan Le Batard on ESPN speculated, a worse story about Richardson's actions comes out.

My gut tells me that Richardson is a league guy and doesn't want to put the league through having to take his sorry ass out to the woodshed.

Also, it's an admission that he's guilty without actually, you know, admitting anything.

In unrelated Panthers news, LB Thomas Davis was suspended two games because Gronk was suspended just one.

That's not intended to be a Patriots-bashing statement. I think the league realized that (a) it let Gronk off way too easy for doing more or less the same thing (giving a defenseless guy a concussion), and (b) if the league wants to get players' attention, they're going to have to do better than just one game.

Don’t sugar coat it. Gronk got one game to specifically not miss the Steelers game. He literally attacked a defenseless player after the play was over and got one game.