Star Wars:The Last Jedi (SPOILERS!!!!)

Warriorpoet897 wrote:

Aside from I'm pretty sure you would freeze (or apparently boil) to death instantly in that situation, I had no problem with the Leia Force scene. I thought it was cool to show that she developed her Force powers over the past thirty years or was trained to a degree by Luke.

Nah.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...

Tanglebones wrote:
Warriorpoet897 wrote:

Aside from I'm pretty sure you would freeze (or apparently boil) to death instantly in that situation, I had no problem with the Leia Force scene. I thought it was cool to show that she developed her Force powers over the past thirty years or was trained to a degree by Luke.

Nah.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...

There seems to be varying opinions on this but I’ll go with the one you posted so I can just like the scene.

So do we see her do it or can we possibly think Ren does it?

manta173 wrote:

So what did y'all think when Luke took the barage? Also I noticed his hair was trimmed and less grey. That was his image of himself.

At first I figured that was him pulling an Obi Wan from A New Hope at first, then rolled my eyes because Jedi are the new Super Saiyans and there's nothing but power escalation, then chuckled at the realization it was a force projection and the film pulled one over on me.

That's one of the reasons I'm curious about seeing this film a second time. So much of it was constructed to misdirect you that a second viewing is going to be a far different experience, and I don't know if it'll be stronger or weaker for me as a result.

One of my favorite things about the movie, and one of the signs that Rian Johnson is an outstanding filmmaker, were the tells that Luke was not really there.

First, he looked like Luke in the Ben Solo flashbacks. This may seem obvious, but I'm not sure everyone would instantly pick up on that. Maybe he colored his beard to look more powerful when confronting Ren?

Second, 3PO is about ready to blow his cover with a patented Dumb C-3PO Comment. Thinking about it later, it seemed clear to me that 3PO could detect that Luke wasn't really there. Luke just looks at him and winks, and it shuts him up. They still have a connection. Maybe Luke was just winking at 3PO for comic effect?

During the fight, there is a brief shot showing Kylo Ren's feet skidding on the ground, and in the process wiping away some of the white surface to reveal the red underneath it. A minute or so later, the same shot is done with Luke's feet, but the white surface is undisturbed. Maybe Luke is really light on his feet?

Finally, the smack-in-the-face moment when he walks away from the blaster barrage ("Whoa-oa-oa-oa-oa-oa nice shootin', Tex!" —Venkman) unscathed.

I don't know, maybe a lot of these things were obvious to people, but they weren't obvious to me until the big reveal. I honestly was thinking to myself during that sequence "Why did he wink at 3PO?" "Why does his beard look different?" "What is the point of that shot of Kylo Ren's feet?"

I'm almost positive that there are other things like this throughout the movie, and I might catch them on a rewatch.

In the moment I guessed the laser barrage *had* killed him, and his force ghost was what emerged after the firing stopped. But very clever!

Also Luke had his blue light saber. He should’ve had his green one if it was really him.

I like that the astral projection thing is set up as something that Force users can do by Snoke, Rey and Kylo, but even by doing that it doesn’t show his hand as far as Luke being able to do it too, allowing it to both be a surprise and also to not come out of nowhere

pyxistyx wrote:
ccesarano wrote:

Curious to see what opinions will be once the ladies join in.

HOLY AMAZEBALLS THAT MIGHT BE THE BEST MOVIE I'VE EVER SEEN AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH! *explodes*

I don't think there's a damned thing in it that I hated :O

That scene with Leia and the bridge explosion..... The hyperdriving through the bad guy fleet!
AAAAAAAAH! *explodes again*
Ahem...
I might have a more nuanced opinion later.
Maybe.

I’m with her.

Although I’m really disappointed that I saw no signs of a Finn - Poe romance.

Just left the theater so still digesting.

Eleima wrote:

Although I’m really disappointed that I saw no signs of a Finn - Poe romance. :(

Roffle.

Maybe in episode IX Finn will realize that although Rose loves him with all her heart, his heart belongs to another.

Warriorpoet897 wrote:
Tanglebones wrote:

Qui-Gon taught it to Yoda first

Oh yeah that’s right. Too bad he didn’t use it himself.

He did. In the Clone Wars.

So very conflicted. Here are some random thoughts:

- The comedic bits were welcome.

- The action set pieces were bad ass.

- Some of the other set pieces really feel like they fused ESB and ROTJ. Not necessarily a bad thing, just lazy.

- This film feels very much like a marketing derived, franchise bridge film (out with the old (Skywalker) in with the new (no name Rey). Which is fine, but maybe try to handle it with a little more finesse? Get off my lawn!

- The slow motion starship chase was silly. They could of skipped it all together

- Some of the anachronistic nomenclature (e.g. chrome dome, on hold, etc) was really off-putting to me. I think I would rather have George Lucas gibberish (e.g. nerfherder).

- In some sense Luke has more or less wasted his life due to the consequences of being a legend and failing Ben, but then provides the mechanism to perpetuate a legend? Not a very good teacher

- Luke was unused in a physical sense for most of the movie and then died. Still able to be a bad ass however. I wish they would not of killed him off, there was no reason for him to die. Nice twin sun reference regardless. Hope Mark made bank.

- I wonder if after Carrie died whether they seriously thought about killing Leia instead of Luke. Maybe let Leia do the suicide run (swap Dern and Fisher) and save the resistance. Luke feels her death then does something legend-y. Not sure how they are going to fix this in the third film.

- Poe got very lucky guessing there was a way out of the base given Luke was not really there.

- The Jedi library books made it on the Falcon because we killed Luke (for no reason) and need a plot device for the next movie?

Anyway, need to go watch it again to sort out my feelings (that I know to be true or something like that).

BadKen wrote:

One of my favorite things about the movie, and one of the signs that Rian Johnson is an outstanding filmmaker, were the tells that Luke was not really there.
...
I'm almost positive that there are other things like this throughout the movie, and I might catch them on a rewatch.

The biggest hint is that their lightsabres never actually come into contact with each other during that confrontation.

BadKen wrote:
Eleima wrote:

Although I’m really disappointed that I saw no signs of a Finn - Poe romance. :(

Roffle.
Maybe in episode IX Finn will realize that although Rose loves him with all her heart, his heart belongs to another.

That would be so awesome. One thing I'd HATE to see (with the passion of a thousand fiery suns) is a Rey - Finn - Rose love triangle.

Nimcosi wrote:

- Poe got very lucky thinking there was a way out, due to ghost Luke.
...
- Poe got very lucky thinking there was a way out given Luke was not really there.

I think you've covered that.
I don't know that it's all that silly. Constructing a base with absolutely no exit seems like a very bad idea to me.

I've been thinking. A lot of people are complaining that the Casino Planet had no purpose. But one of the main threads in the movie is that failure happens. That's just life. The important bit is learning from those mistakes in order to move forward. Something Luke failed horribly at.

Also, I've failed to mention that I really loved Laura Dern, she really rocked.

Another awesome thing was the diversity. So many more women, more PoC. This needs to keep going, it's so, so, SO great.

Eleima wrote:
BadKen wrote:
Eleima wrote:

Although I’m really disappointed that I saw no signs of a Finn - Poe romance. :(

Roffle.
Maybe in episode IX Finn will realize that although Rose loves him with all her heart, his heart belongs to another.

That would be so awesome. One thing I'd HATE to see (with the passion of a thousand fiery suns) is a Rey - Finn - Rose love triangle.

Agreed. Rey's wistful look towards Finn at the end of the movie almost seemed to be setting that up. However, it could be interpreted as her just being happy that her friend the ex-Stormtrooper is finding a way to fit in. She has to know that her path ahead is not going to leave her much room for a personal life.

BadKen wrote:

Agreed. Rey's wistful look towards Finn at the end of the movie almost seemed to be setting that up. However, it could be interpreted as her just being happy that her friend the ex-Stormtrooper is finding a way to fit in. She has to know that her path ahead is not going to leave her much room for a personal life.

I'm really hoping she's just happy for him.
As for the personal attachments... I've always felt that was a failing of the Jedi Order that made them weaker. Having people you love and who support you should make you stronger. Not push you towards the Dark Side. Maybe I'm just a gray Jedi (what else would you expect from Revan? ).

Saw it this morning with a friend. Holy crap was it nice to be able to sit and watch a Star Wars movie that has that original trilogy feeling to it. For me, there is some undefinable essence that Rian Johnson was able to capture which I've missed since seeing them in the theater back then. I loved TFA and really liked Rogue One, but wasn't entertained by them in quite the same way. As part of that essence there were flaws, but none of them got in the way of the story.

Leia and Luke's scene really got to me emotionally, as it was so obviously a goodbye and also included Han. As sad as that made me, it was equal to the joy I felt when Yoda's spirit showed up to call Luke on his bullsh*t.

In regards to pairings and love triangles, something I was wondering is if Western media is getting a bit more like Otaku media of Japan in how they tease different pairings. I didn't see it so much with Finn and Poe this time, but maybe I'm just not looking for it. However, I know there's a whole Kylo Ren/Rey pairing thing going on in the Tumblrverse, and this film is heavy with that while still allowing room for Finn/Rey, and now we have Finn/Rose.

Don't know what canonical pairings there will be, but perhaps the (nerd leaning) entertainment industry will begin providing bits of subtle fan-service in films and television (more than self-aware shows like Supernatural already do, I mean) that suggest pairings of all sorts, even if they ultimately lead to a canonical route.

To me, Rey showed a bit of surprise since it was out of left field but was happy Finn was in that position. She has only ever thought of him as a friend.

Caveat: My specific theater had problems with the feed of the movie so our projector was locking up every 5 – 10 minutes for the first 45 minutes. It really threw the tone and pacing off for my experience specifically. Apparently, Disney’s distributors have this thing on super lock-down and the theater had to call a dedicated tech support line specifically for Last Jedi to get permission to reboot the projector. When they got it, it took about another 10 minutes to get back to close to where we left off. Which, I will go into detail in on a specific scene in a little bit.

Detailed thoughts follow:

First, the bad (and these are mostly relative):

The casino sequence was rough. Finn and Rose had no chemistry and the messaging was pretty ham-fisted. Yep. War profiteering is scummy. Got it. Move on, movie!

The mutiny sequence made no sense. Poe is a hard-headed fighter jock that got people killed. He’s also like one of your only pilots left. You’re stuck with this guy. Try to clue him in before he does something stupid.

Leia’s space sequence is really, really janky upon repeated viewings. So, this is the place where they rebooted the projector. We managed to see this full sequence uninterrupted both times and I gotta say, it doesn’t hold up after even 10 minutes. It’s the worst sort of uncanny valley; the way she moves through space and her relative low resolution is very off compared to the scenery.

Now. Everything else. Which I love.

Holy sh*t the ship design is amazing! I love the Snoke’s command ship, Kylo’s TIE, the dreadnaughts, the Resistance bombers (even though… there’s no gravity in space!), and the ship interiors are incredible. Snoke’s throne room in particular is magnificent.

Daisy Ridley and Adam Driver’s throne room fight is just fun. I initially had very strong feelings about the red backdrop. I thought those were walls… as the fight progresses and you see that they are actually curtains covering the viewports and the curtains burn up… LOVED IT!

I hated Snoke. Hated the idea of Snoke and I really give Rian Johnson credit for killing Snoke and “Darth Vader Fanboi” Kylo Ren in a single movie.

Rey’s backstory is perfect and I hope it does not change. Her past doesn’t matter. What other people think about Rey (FANDOM, THE MOVIE IS TALKING TO YOU) does not matter. Only what she does with her power matters.

Kylo Ren’s arc takes on a really tragic tone. Everything he could have and should have been was twisted by his birthright and distorted by both his family and his enemies. I am hoping they do something with the Knights of Ren in the next movie because I’d really like to see how they interpret Luke’s and Kylo's actions at the Academy… which brings me to:

Luke Skywalker, Jedi Master. What a glorious send off. The legendary hero of the galaxy, so sad and broken and de-based that the idea of being pulled back into the world of “laser swords” is actively disgusting to him. He hated who he became because of where he came from and what he was told to believe. I loved the interaction with Yoda and I double loved that they used the real Yoda… not the stupid fake Yoda. I particularly enjoyed how Skywalker became One with the Force. I was glad to see a Jedi Master use some of that good ol’ Jedi Mind Tricks instead of lightsaber fighting. (You thought I was actually here to fight you in person? Bamboozled again!)

I love the animals. The porgs and crystal space fox kitties and giant racing horse doggos are the best animals ever.

Finally, the humor was perfect. It meshed incredibly well across all Star Wars media. Felt closer to Clone Wars / Rebels but wasn’t particularly different than Han and Lando’s stuff. (Hell, Chewie does the Tarzan yell in RotJ.) I particularly loved the sequences with Hux and Poe. If you have ever been in the military and dealt with military comms and the sorts of un-abashed f*ckery that can occur… PER. FECT. I also dug the slapstick on Achtoo. Ah, the glorious life of a Jedi Master hermit!

the Resistance bombers (even though… there’s no gravity in space!)

According to the VD, the bombs don't drop they are impelled from their racks by sequenced electromagnetic plates in the clip. They are then drawn magnetically to their target

I loved Johnson's weird way of portraying the Force. The Force choking and tossing people about are things we've seen a million times in these movies, but he made it seem very alarming and strange and upsetting. He also knows how to render an epic tableaux almost instantly iconic for the character standing in front of it--Finn with all the smoke and fire saying "Rebel Scum" for example. Also, big fan of how the Not Mysteries got handled. Who was Snoke? He's a powerful dark-side user. How did Snoke come into power? ...He's a powerful dark-side user. Honestly, that's all we really needed.

karmajay wrote:
the Resistance bombers (even though… there’s no gravity in space!)

According to the VD, the bombs don't drop they are impelled from their racks by sequenced electromagnetic plates in the clip. They are then drawn magnetically to their target :)

There is gravity in space. We're in space right now, and there is gravity.

oh! I thought of something i didn't like! Laura Dern says "Godspeed" to the rebel transports as they leave. That...seems somewhat anachronistic for a people that believe in 'The Force'

SpacePPoliceman wrote:

I loved Johnson's weird way of portraying the Force. The Force choking and tossing people about are things we've seen a million times in these movies, but he made it seem very alarming and strange and upsetting. He also knows how to render an epic tableaux almost instantly iconic for the character standing in front of it--Finn with all the smoke and fire saying "Rebel Scum" for example. Also, big fan of how the Not Mysteries got handled. Who was Snoke? He's a powerful dark-side user. How did Snoke come into power? ...He's a powerful dark-side user. Honestly, that's all we really needed.

karmajay wrote:
the Resistance bombers (even though… there’s no gravity in space!)

According to the VD, the bombs don't drop they are impelled from their racks by sequenced electromagnetic plates in the clip. They are then drawn magnetically to their target :)

There is gravity in space. We're in space right now, and there is gravity.

Yeah - another one is Luke and Ren, with the walkers in the background

Nimcosi, stop changing your post. We have no idea what opinions you are changing hehe

I'm no movie buff or a massive Star Wars fan, so I doubt my opinion is as valid as most, but I didn't enjoy the film that much and neither did my girlfriend. Our main issue was just how long it was, especially the whole final battle part, maybe it would've been a bit more enjoyable if it cut about 15/20 minutes off the time. I'm sure most fans welcome all the SW they can get though ;).

I actually watched Rogue One recently with her and we both thought it'd be a bit too cliché for a Star Wars film and were in for a "here we go, fan service" type, but we were pleasantly surprised with how much we enjoyed it! This one though just didn't really get us.

The start of the film was cool, the bomb sequence was good to watch. I wasn't too worked up by some of the comedy, a lot of it didn't really make me laugh, but there were some parts I found funny. I thought the Porgs were going to play a bigger role, but I guess they were really shoe horned in there to give a new toy to sell?

The Leia floating scene just felt a bit silly. It felt like something I'd seen in a badly written JRPG! I also really liked John Boyega in the first film, I think he's a great actor, but it didn't feel like he got as many lines this time around? I might just not have being paying attention though, but I would've liked to have seen more of him really, the sudden "I love you" kiss towards the end I also found a bit weird, I felt a bit like it came out of nowhere.

I also got kicked in the head by someone behind me who thought it was a good opportunity to put his feet up in our part-public donation, local, independent cinema. I had no idea he was doing it until it hit me, fair to say I gave him a few choice words at the time (which promptly stopped him) and a bit of advice about showing some respect for the people that help uphold such a nice cinema. I can't really blame Disney for that whole thing though

Just saw it so I’m still processing. Although it had some nice moments, I didn’t like it all.

I may be overthinking it, but the overall story beats were too contrived. It takes place just after TFA so the First Order is everywhere already? The bombing run was cool, but rebel fighters can do some serious damage singlehandedly but several capital ships with likely thousands of fighters can’t take down three rebel ships? They just had to slowly follow them until their fuel ran out? Then we're left with like 12 rebels at the end? This movie felt very very small. The last shot was great, but where does this leave us for the next one?

So many interesting characters seemd wasted in this film too. Maz, Phasma, and Snoke mainly. Pure throw-aways there. No mystery about Rey. Big mis-characterization of Luke, and his relationship to Rey fell flat.

This movie felt far and away different from TFA and I think it’s weaker for it. I'm starting to think Star Wars movies (at least the sagas) with different directors is a bad idea.

Another random thought that's bothering me maybe someone can help me out. When Luke returns I'm assuming no one knows he's a projection. So he sits down and has a moment with Leia (which was sweet) he then gives her dice which I'm assuming will have some significance in the Solo movie. Why did Leia throw them away if they had some special meaning to her? Did she know they were not real? And with that said why did they remain after Luke died? They didn't fade away until Kylo found them.

Really great to hear this met so many people's expectations though, my daughter is bugging me now to see it so I will for sure try to approach it with a less critical eye on a second viewing.

karmajay wrote:

Nimcosi, stop changing your post. We have no idea what opinions you are changing hehe

Sorry. I keep over/under thinking my random thoughts and then try to correct them. I will stop editing that post.

Instead, I will add that killing off a different main character (Finn/Leia), might have been preferable to the death of Luke for me (and possibly the narrative). I suspect I feel this way because of Fisher's death. Also, still on the Rey and Ben are family train.

Big mis-characterization of Luke, and his relationship to Rey fell flat.

Wow this is the stuff that boggles my mind. This is pretty much a perfect characterization of Luke. I think it is perfectly in line with his character to fail at teaching and decide its his fault and he was not cut out for it and I'll just go away instead of fix it.

Also, we see that he can be a good teacher because right away he is able to get Rey to focus on the force and what it means.

Last Jedi met my criteria of being highly entertaining, despite the critiques that are/will be inevitably leveled at it. The part where the command ship lightspeed-fragged Snoke's Star Destroyer plus the other ships there may have been my favorite 10 seconds of the movie. But I've seen others point out issues with that scene which I can't disagree with.

Why wait until most of the escape pods were blown up before turning around for the suicide run, and not sooner? And for that matter, if the command ship was carrying on as a diversion or sacrificial lamb while the escape pods were going, why did a Vice Admiral need to stay on it, instead of a grunt or setting it to autopilot (besides to up the drama)? Or we can take it a step further, and why aren't more ships used as suicide bombers this way in the Star Wars universe (that we have seen)? It seems a wildly effective tactic, even granting that the command ship would do more damage at lightspeed than an x-wing. The medical frigate could have done the same much sooner, when it was clear they were doomed.