[Discussion] Brexit means Brexit

Discuss the political fallout and other issues around Britain's exit, Brexit for short, from the EU.

For the sake of clarity, I'm including the full text of Article 50.

Article 50 wrote:

1. Any Member State may decide to withdraw from the Union in accordance with its own constitutional requirements.

2. A Member State which decides to withdraw shall notify the European Council of its intention. In the light of the guidelines provided by the European Council, the Union shall negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State, setting out the arrangements for its withdrawal, taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union. That agreement shall be negotiated in accordance with Article 218(3) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union. It shall be concluded on behalf of the Union by the Council, acting by a qualified majority, after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament.

3. The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned, unanimously decides to extend this period.

4. For the purposes of paragraphs 2 and 3, the member of the European Council or of the Council representing the withdrawing Member State shall not participate in the discussions of the European Council or Council or in decisions concerning it.

A qualified majority shall be defined in accordance with Article 238(3)(b) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union.

5. If a State which has withdrawn from the Union asks to rejoin, its request shall be subject to the procedure referred to in Article 49.

WizKid wrote:
Prederick wrote:

I swear to God, every single time I hear a Brexit update, it sounds like this entire process is... well...

IMAGE(https://media.giphy.com/media/FqtWrearu5vb2/giphy.gif)

Like, is there any part of this that is going well?

Is it just me or is a bear driving that truck?

Bearesa May

Worse than that, it's a UK truck so the Bear is in the passenger seat.
NO-ONE IS DRIVING!

Truck is just enjoying its freedom before the 50 mile queues to get through customs at Dover become a permanent fixture.

Concave wrote:

Truck is just enjoying its freedom before the 50 mile queues to get through customs at Dover become a permanent fixture.

Nothing more British that standing in line, quietly tutting under your breath at how long you've been standing in line.

WizKid wrote:
Prederick wrote:

I swear to God, every single time I hear a Brexit update, it sounds like this entire process is... well...

IMAGE(https://media.giphy.com/media/FqtWrearu5vb2/giphy.gif)

Like, is there any part of this that is going well?

Is it just me or is a bear driving that truck?

IMAGE(https://i.imgur.com/8J6GcEj.gif)

How can this be?

So everyone in Northern Ireland gets to stay an EU citizen? Can we get that in England too?

Well, I believe this basically kills off any ideas of a Hard Brexit with extreme prejudice? Right?
Can't say I'm sorry about that.

I'm sure Ian Duncan Smith and Farage are entirely livid

....good.

Document is embedded in this article. I'd let this sink in a bit before deciding how I feel about it. Mood music is good so far, though.

If the Irish Times complains about you viewing too many articles, just delete their cookies and reopen the page.

Is it just me or does this all still seem like a fudge, just kicking the can down the road until we see that actual content of whichever brexit bill appears in the Commons?

Zelos wrote:

So everyone in Northern Ireland gets to stay an EU citizen? Can we get that in England too?

And Scotland. Especially Scotland. and Wales. And those of us in England who never wanted to leave in the first place.

I love the "The United Kingdom remains committed to protecting and supporting continued North-South and East-West cooperation " which I like to think means that the first round for Dubliners at the Galway Races is on Her Majesty.

The document on www.gov.uk which is easier to read than the Irish Times.
https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...

Reading it though it seems like an awful lot of negotiation for not a lot of difference from where we started. The EU seems to have exactly the position they had back in June 2016. I don't know that the British government position actually is so I can't tell if they have moved.

It's a definite nothing is agreed until everything is agreed. But if the government isn't dragged down into another election is hard to see how this doesn't end up being a defacto customs union.

Though on the plus side I have until 2027 to decide if I want to stay.

Exactly. What a complete waste of time. If they'd just swallowed their damned pride and put a freakin' muzzle on the hard brexiteers from the beginning they could have been significantly further ahead than where they are now.

This also shows a weakness in that whole election. If the choices had actually been "Stay", "Hard", or "Soft" the results would probably have been something like

Stay: 45
Hard: 25
Soft: 30

Which would have made it way clearer that Stay was actually the result that most people wanted. I don't think you can always do this, but in this case I think that Soft and Hard Brexit are such different outcomes that bundling them together is not acceptable.

Yonder wrote:

This also shows a weakness in that whole election. If the choices had actually been "Stay", "Hard", or "Soft" the results would probably have been something like

Stay: 45
Hard: 25
Soft: 30

Which would have made it way clearer that Stay was actually the result that most people wanted. I don't think you can always do this, but in this case I think that Soft and Hard Brexit are such different outcomes that bundling them together is not acceptable.

Damn straight, had it been a rank your choices in order:
Would you prefer:
A) Stay in the EU
B) Stay in the Single Market (Leave EU)
C) Stay in the Customs Union (Leave Single Market)
D) Move to a Free Trade deal for goods only. (The Canada option)
E) Just use WTO standard schedule.
F) Unilaterally drop all import tariffs and quotas (the true Free Market option)

I don't think you're getting many people down at the D, E, F end of the pool. If you think F isn't a real thing, there was a Conservative MP on Radio 4 calling for it.

DoveBrown wrote:

which I like to think means that the first round for Dubliners at the Galway Races

Hmm...

Can I just say how cool it is to read the UK and other EU goodjers chiming in on this issue? I don't read much social media, let alone UK-focused social media, so this has been very entertaining and educational for me.

Even if there is a decidedly anti-Tory bias here. Come on, people, admit that the Tories are just a bunch of cuddly teddy bears who just want to privatize the NHS and take away anything else that might help the poors.

Another USer here, this is the part where I chime in and say BOTH sides are bad, right?

Sorbicol wrote:
Zelos wrote:

So everyone in Northern Ireland gets to stay an EU citizen? Can we get that in England too?

And Scotland. Especially Scotland. and Wales. And those of us in England who never wanted to leave in the first place.

Didn't the Welsh vote to leave, same as the English?

Yeah, Wales and England were both Leave.

Well in what can only be viewed as a head in hands interview, David Davis basically rowed back on the entire agreement in a BBC interview. And in case you think I'm being biased, he annoyed many of the pro-Brexit camp to boot. Simple fact is the UK government is denying reality in order to keep every side happy.

Views on this from both camps expressed here and here. The UK government are attempting to renege on their agreement that is barely 4 days old. I cannot see this ending well.

Axon wrote:

If the Irish Times complains about you viewing too many articles, just delete their cookies biscuits and reopen the page.

I know enough about language across the pond to make this correction.

So, Davis caused such a kerfuffle that there is now movement on formalising the agreement into a legal text. This shows that trust has all but broken down between the UK and the EU.

Amendment 7 of the EU Withdrawal Bill passes, which gives parliament a final and meaningful vote on the terms of the final brexit settlement once negotiations are complete.

Finally a degree of sanity has been injected in to this whole process
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...

Stephen Hammond apparently fired as Tory party chairman for rebelling against his party on this. A bit vindictive really but that's the Tory party for you, never one to concede there might be a plurality of views.

Dominic Grieve who tabled amendment 7 says he'll also push to amend clause 9 of the bill which, as written, would give the executive carte blanche to amend British law with minimal oversight (the so called Henry VIII powers)

Guess what guys, we're getting blue passports! Because something about it being a symbol of Britain, even though I'm 31 and never had a blue passport and would rather keep the passport that lets me travel Europe without visas.

onewild wrote:

Guess what guys, we're getting blue passports! Because something about it being a symbol of Britain, even though I'm 31 and never had a blue passport and would rather keep the passport that lets me travel Europe without visas.

The opportunism of Theresa May about this is ridiculous. She's banging on about how this is some kind of patriotic win for British sovereignty and as though this is somehow tied to brexit. The reality is that British passports were due for redesign anyway, completely independent of whatever the Foreign Office is up to, and the EU doesn't specify anything about passport design for any member nation. So passport redesign has nothing to do with Leaving the EU as she tweeted earlier.

Some insecure, xenophobic Tory f*ckwit wrote:

“The humiliation of having a pink European Union passport will now soon be over and the United Kingdom nationals can once again feel pride and self-confidence in their own nationality when travelling,"

Good. f*cking. Grief.

It's NOT EVEN f*ckING PINK YOU TWOT! Learn your colours!

Saw someone suggest that the EU should troll us by announcing that all EU passports will be changed to be blue, effective from 2020.

This government seems one step away from telling us something like Paddington Bear has never been Peruvian, but was actually born in Coventry, thus giving more prestige for these famous isles.

As that article says, Croatia has blue passports despite being an EU member.

Couldn't we just have bought every Leaver a Union Jack (or more likely, England flag) passport holder? It probably would have been cheaper.

We have had blue, green and now dark red. No one gives a f**k.
If this is what she’s grasping at, things are truly bad.