GWJ Conference Call Episode 582

Xenoblade Chronicles 2, The Cultural Obsession With The Apocalypse, Your Emails and More!

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This week Julian, Sean, Amanda and Shawn talk about the cultural obsession with the apocalypse.

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Show credits

Music credits: 

And All That Between (Game Edit) - BigBot Audio Drop - SGX -
http://sgxmusic.com/ - 17:24

Coactive (Over My Shoulder Mix) - BigBot Audio Drop - SGX -
http://sgxmusic.com/ - 49:48

Comments

Ah, the apocalypse.... I really dislike the apocalypse. I'm so over the apocalypse. Life is tough, it's hard, you get thrown a lot of curveballs sometimes, and I just don't like getting thrown into depressive games that feature the apocalypse. Games in which you'll typically run into child abuse, murder, sexual assault, rape, and any kind of discrimination you can think of. I just can't do it. I'll play the odd Walking Dead game, but that's about it. I couldn't play Fallout 3 for that very reason, because Washington CD is my hometown, and I couldn't bear to see it like that. Couldn't even bring myself to step outside of the vault.
The apocalypse, and particularly the zombie apocalypse is my classic anxiety nightmare that'll wake me up in the middle of the night, terrified that my kids, family and friends are all dead, and that I'm next.
I'll just be nope'ing out of this, particularly when there are so many other options to go with in games.

Great conversation on transferrable skills! I know I learned a lot and applied those skills both in and outside games when I was younger. Typing of course, but also maps, and getting oriented. Anyone remember that tricky maze in King's Quest 5? If you weren't paying attention to the rotating point of view, you could get lost pretty quickly even though the maze wasn't that big (5 by 5? I think?).
Sorry Amanda, but no, we don't all get to learn to have a good poker face. I still suck at it, and that's why I always get fleeced.

And thanks for the nod to the GOTY thread. Yes, some awesome are 25 years old, sorry Amanda. One of the earlier game I remember is Alley Cat, from 1983 (it's as old as I am).
And thanks a bunch for all the high praise, but really, full credit goes to ClockworkHouse who had been handling the thread previously.

00:02:06 Xenoblade Chronicles 2
00:13:16 Assassin's Creed Origins
00:14:30 League of Legends
00:15:10 Reigns: Her Majesty
00:17:24 Our Obsession with the Apocalypse
00:49:48 Your Emails

Zelda breath of the wild is your happy post-apocalypse world. Their civilization fell and collapsed 100 years ago, But the people are going about their daily lives people are want to do.

The funny thing about dreams is that they are throwing situations at you so that the brain can practice its fight or flight routines.
Whenever I am anxious, for a job interview or whatnot, I have a dream that I am back in a McDonalds kitchen that has gone to hell. Everything is burning. No one is listening to me.
Dreams and video gaming have been shown in studies to stimulate the same parts of the brain.
So by playing games about the apocalypse, are we placating that same part of our anxious lizard brain that is fretting about the impending doom ?
We're just practicing !
By the way, if there is a zombie apocalypse, (which there won't be... but if there is... ), as they said in Zombieland... the fat guys will be the first to go ! So watch out for me.

One problem with having a vast collection of things that you think you might enjoy in the future (for me it's hundreds of books) is the worry that you are going to get rid of something then, a few days later, regret the decision. One approach is to set a number of games you are going to get rid of, maybe ten, pick those out and then, rather than getting rid of them instantly, put them in the garage or somewhere else out of the way. If after a few weeks you haven't had second thoughts then those games can go.

Obviously it's better if, as suggested on the podcast, you can bite the bullet there and then and get the stuff out the door. As Certis says, in extremis, you can always buy it again.

On bringing skills into games, I discovered a skill I didn't know I had:

I've realised that I enjoy games mostly for the combat. I enjoy other elements, puzzles, story, etc but the games that really grab me are the ones with incredible combat mechanics. I particularly like it when that combat isn't predictable or rote but is instead has a chaotic aspect with the potential to change from moment to moment.

Some time ago I was speaking to my Mum's brother Keith who was somewhat of a tearaway in his youth and, by all accounts, was the best fighter at his school. As an adult he was a mountaineer and a restorer of old houses. He recounted a tale from his days as a jobbing builder when he was in charge of buying all the fish and chips for the building site. People would order large fish or small fish but Keith would buy all small fish and pocket the difference. One day the biggest bloke on the building site asked which was his big fish and Keith, absentmindedly said, "It doesn't matter. They're all the same." After a heated exchange of words he ended up in a fight with said builder.

At this point in the story Keith began to relate the fight, as if it had happened yesterday. He went though every moment telling me what his opponent did and what he did to counter it. His thought processes were almost identical to the ones I go through when fighting in singleplayer or multiplayer games. The fight ended with Keith on top of the big builder holding his arm up his back until he calmed down.

Apparently, I may have had a hidden talent for street fighting all this time. It's probably a bit late to take it up now.

I just realized the most effective way to survive the apocalypse is to move to Madagascar.

I feel like everything I excel at in video games is reflective of what I excel at in real life. Decisiveness. Organization/Efficiency. Analytical skills. Tenacity. Though tenacity is the brother of stubbornness, and decisiveness is the brother of impulsivity... and I feel like all of that can describe me depending on the day. My thought is that my personality simply 'is', and I feel like it flexes its muscle more in the digital world. I like to think it allows me to know myself better, and, thus, move through the world in a more optimal, at least for me, way. Whether that's true or not I have no idea. Maybe that's just a justification for my hobby. Physically I can't think of any skills that translate either way for me with the exception of typing. It always surprises me when a co-worker/friend/human sees me typing and comments how fast I am.

I loved the apocalypse discussion. Amanda's point that a real apocalypse would probably spell ruin for minorities and women feels, unfortunately, dead on when the apocalypse is framed the way it is in most media. My sister's longtime BF is a prepper, and, while I won't discuss the fall of civilization with him because I intentionally avoid "big" topics with him, by virtue of his existence in my life it has me thinking about it more often than I would otherwise. I feel it's notable that he is the exact type of person I would never want to be in a post-apocalyptic situation with, but yet he is the one person I know of that has taken any precautions for it. It forces me to think about if I would even WANT to continue living in a post-apocalypse world. If I lived long enough to have to beat someone to death with a nail-bat to survive I don't know if I could recover from that.

Outside of considering the horrible realities of an apocalypse I think it is a great setting for drama. The drama is just baked in, and setting up moral questions that don't really happen in society, I think, has some value. The Last of Us is a great example of a piece of media that explores the moral questions of simply surviving in a world where being moral can get you killed. Joel isn't a good guy, and that's precisely why he's alive. It's insinuated that he's done wretched things to stay alive, but the player gets the benefit of placing blame for his actions on the state of the world.

Spoiler:

Until he saves Ellie. Which is arguably the most immoral thing he's ever done. By saving one life he kills tens of people during the rescue, and potentially thousands due to ruining a chance at a cure. He doesn't tell Ellie about it because he knows it was bad, and there is a good chance she'd hate him for it. It's why I love the ending of the game so much. The mindset and skills that help a person survive in a world like that are so small picture that big picture goals can end up being secondary.

There are settings/stories that go too far for me, though. Hunger Games is an example of a setting that goes so far passed my comfort zone that I don't even like to think about it.

I'm sending you hate mail about The Postman. Not for liking the movie, which was...fine. But for not realizing that it's based on a classic sci-fi novel by David Brin. Y'all, the book was far, far superior to the movie.

kazooka wrote:

I'm sending you hate mail about The Postman. Not for liking the movie, which was...fine. But for not realizing that it's based on a classic sci-fi novel by David Brin. Y'all, the book was far, far superior to the movie.

I like how they talked about the Postman and Fallout, but never connected it to New Vegas.
You know the one where you are a postman ravaging Nevada for vengeance and the DLC is about another postman wanting vengeance on you.

Higgledy wrote:

Apparently I may have had a hidden talent for street fighting all this time. It's probably a bit late to take it up now.

I'll bet you all the blood in your face that your videogame combat experience doesn't translate anywhere near as well as all my videogame driving experience does.

I thought for sure that Julian was going to discuss flight sim skills.

Jonman wrote:
Higgledy wrote:

Apparently I may have had a hidden talent for street fighting all this time. It's probably a bit late to take it up now.

I'll bet you all the blood in your face that your videogame combat experience doesn't translate anywhere near as well as all my videogame driving experience does.

I suspect it's a lot less fun in real life and involves more late night visits to the ER.

Rat Boy wrote:

I just realized the most effective way to survive the apocalypse is to move to Madagascar.

Ehhhhh, I don’t know about that. Madagascar has quite a few hazards: tropical infectious diseases (malaria, dengue to name but two) and a few poisonous animals (among others, some really big spiders). Yikes! Maybe you’d die before the start of the apocalypse.

Spoiler:

I kid, I kid. It’s a beautiful place, even though it still struggles on political and economical scales.

Higgledy wrote:
Jonman wrote:
Higgledy wrote:

Apparently I may have had a hidden talent for street fighting all this time. It's probably a bit late to take it up now.

I'll bet you all the blood in your face that your videogame combat experience doesn't translate anywhere near as well as all my videogame driving experience does.

I suspect it's a lot less fun in real life and involves more late night visits to the ER.

Unclear if you're talking about you getting into fights, or me on a real racetrack, but yes, I agree.

I think there's still room for post-apocalypse games. Horizon: Zero Dawn was a refreshing take on it. Humanity still thrives, but is rebuilding itself from a near-extinction event. We're learning about what happened and why, but the game isn't wrought with discrimination, sexism, etc. People generally have a positive outlook, and are always looking to create and expand.

Personally, I think one of the great joys of post apocalyptic games is the ability to shoot all the powerful jerks who I have to suffer in real life. The fact that I’m doing it to “save humanity” even helps to assuage the guilt I sometimes feel in more realistic modern warfare or GTA games.

Regarding real-life skills, my ability to gronk complex grand strategy titles has helped me immensely as a tech writer. Often the devs hand me something as complicated as EU 4 and I’m able to point out ways the UI needs to be simplified - a lot.

I want to say that game storytelling also helps inspire my budding fiction career, but that’s probably me trying to justify playing time as “research.”

Hrdina wrote:

I thought for sure that Julian was going to discuss flight sim skills.

I don't think there's a flight sim enthusiast in the world who doesn't cradle and nurture a secret desire to hear the words "does anybody know how to fly a plane?".

Also, thanks to all of you on the show for calmly and quietly destigmatizing the challenge of moving through life with recurrent depression and anhedonia. Every bit of honesty helps the culture, and more selfishly, helps some of us directly.

Minotaar wrote:

I think there's still room for post-apocalypse games. Horizon: Zero Dawn was a refreshing take on it. Humanity still thrives, but is rebuilding itself from a near-extinction event. We're learning about what happened and why, but the game isn't wrought with discrimination, sexism, etc. People generally have a positive outlook, and are always looking to create and expand.

Ironically, most video game apocalypses don't actually feature apocalypses as "end of the world" events. In general, most apocalypses in games involve radically transforming the world rather than ending it. Because if your video game is really about a world that's ended, and you start with that, then there wouldn't be a game.

The sort of game it is is almost orthogonal to whether it starts on an apocalypse. Civilization: Beyond Earth, and Endless Legend both start after an apocalypse, but they might as well be Civilization which simply starts prehistorically. The Walking Dead is I suppose mid-apocalypse but its theme is not because it's apocalyptic. Horizon: Zero Dawn is post-apocalyptic but you wouldn't know that in-game until way after it starts if you didn't watch the trailers, and most of the people in it don't particularly care that they're living after an apocalypse. "The Old Ones are dead and gone. This is our time, now." They're almost thankful for it.

Another great ep, with a really interesting discussion.

One narrative aspect of games set after an apocalypse is the chance to uncover the "dirty secret" about the world.

Often RPG quests are framed as investigations: find out what happened, talk to people, check out the scene, etc. In a post-apocalyptic world, there's no bigger "what happened?" than the cause of the apocalypse. Even in RPG-lite titles like Enslaved or Horizon, the overarching narrative involves discovering what caused the downfall of civilisation. This in turn affords musings on hubris and the flaws in present-day society, lending some thematic weight to the game.

Eleima wrote:
Rat Boy wrote:

I just realized the most effective way to survive the apocalypse is to move to Madagascar.

Ehhhhh, I don’t know about that. Madagascar has quite a few hazards: tropical infectious diseases (malaria, dengue to name but two) and a few poisonous animals (among others, some really big spiders). Yikes! Maybe you’d die before the start of the apocalypse.

Spoiler:

I kid, I kid. It’s a beautiful place, even though it still struggles on political and economical scales.

Eleima, might want to read this thread...

Rat Boy wrote:
Eleima wrote:
Rat Boy wrote:

I just realized the most effective way to survive the apocalypse is to move to Madagascar.

Ehhhhh, I don’t know about that. Madagascar has quite a few hazards: tropical infectious diseases (malaria, dengue to name but two) and a few poisonous animals (among others, some really big spiders). Yikes! Maybe you’d die before the start of the apocalypse.

Spoiler:

I kid, I kid. It’s a beautiful place, even though it still struggles on political and economical scales.

Eleima, might want to read this thread...

Right, that makes sense. In my Plague Inc games, Island and especially Greenland we’re the tough ones. Probably because because I typically picked contaminants that fared well in warmer climes and that would get transmitted with the oral fecal route. That always works (exhibit A: history).

SOMA. Probably the most effective "end of the world" story I've played through in a game. A really disturbingly plausible end of the world scenario, with a tiny sliver of consolation at the end but in general it's bleakly realistic. Absolutely worth playing (especially now they've added an official "safe monsters" mode) but...make sure you're in a good frame of mind before doing so.

* * *
re: putting world of warcraft on your CV

funnily enough, one of my projects in class this year ended up being creating a poster campaign to help young people get into work by working out what real-world skills their hobbies represent (e.g wow, paintball, whatever) and turning that into something palatable for a C.V. (they would follow a link from the poster which would take them to site where they pick their hobbies and then the site would auto-translate that into something they could copy-paste and then edit into a C.V).

IMAGE(https://smackfolio.files.wordpress.com/2017/12/final-poster-1.jpg)

Will it work!? No idea! As long as it gets me a decent grade, that's all I'm worried about