[Discussion] The tax tax tax thread

The state of US tax code and upcoming proposed changes.

Veloxi wrote:
Mixolyde wrote:
Chaz wrote:

The sad part is that the GOP is somehow riding this populist wave, when they constantly make it clear that they have no idea how the poor actually live.

Because it's a new thing Tim Snyder is calling sadopopulism, and they are very, very good at it.

Thanks for sharing this, it's amazing.

Np, the earlier three parts are also awesome. Also any talk he gives about "On Tyranny" which you should have all bought as Christmas gifts for all of your friends and Family by now.

Mixolyde wrote:
Chaz wrote:

The sad part is that the GOP is somehow riding this populist wave, when they constantly make it clear that they have no idea how the poor actually live.

Because it's a new thing Tim Snyder is calling sadopopulism, and they are very, very good at it.

That's one of the most depressing videos I've seen in awhile. To think of how we've fallen...

Turns out that doing a shoddy rush job has downsides:

The Senate GOP Accidentally Killed Some of Its Donors’ Favorite Tax Breaks

But approaching major legislation like an Adderall-addled sophomore approaches an overdue term paper came with a minor drawback: It forced the party to pass a tax bill before they had time to read it.

In hindsight, McConnell should have asked for an extension. While Republicans were manically outlining their plans to take from the poor to give to the Trumps, they also, accidentally, nullified all of their corporate donors’ favorite deductions.

The GOP had originally intended to abolish the AMT. But on Friday, with the clock running out — and money running short — Senate Republicans put the AMT back into their bill. Unfortunately for McConnell, they forgot to lower AMT after doing so.

This is a big problem. The Senate bill brings the normal corporate rate down to 20 percent — while leaving the alternative minimum rate at … 20 percent. The legislation would still allow corporations to claim a wide variety of tax credits and deductions — it just renders all them completely worthless. Companies can either take no deductions, and pay a 20 percent rate — or take lots of deductions … and pay a 20 percent rate.

They'll try to fix it in conference committee, of course.

They accidentally partially accomplished their stated goal of lowing the marginal rate and making up for it by obsoleting deductions. Because that stated goal was incredibly different from their actual goal they need to remedy that now.

f*cking criminal clowns.

I posted some thoughts in the EE house thread, but currently I’m trying to sell my house in the greater Seattle area and the market has absolutely frozen up. My realtor friends are saying the mortgage deduction changes are driving a lot of it since many houses are above $500k and we have high property taxes. People therefore are now scared to buy. Curious to know if other people in high cost of living areas are noticing similar problems.

I know the mortgage deduction is a mixed bag. However, the way it’s being scaled back could hurt the economy more than expected. Not as much as kicking millions off health insurance but not insignificant either.

And the easiest way to change that, to get rid of all other taxes (sales, property, etc) and go to a income only tax would help that out (i think) is being stopped by the state legislature.

Well. Not unlike Manafort violating his bail terms, evil people being inept is oddly comforting.

Case in point.

Those dummies forgot to lower the AMT. so you can deduct your private jet all you want. And get nothing.

IMAGE(http://24.media.tumblr.com/c191a01d364cb74f37f4851d2ff82b8d/tumblr_mkcme2NYzu1r426i4o3_r1_250.gif)

Don't worry. This oversight will only be temporary.

Oh for sure, they'll fix it in committee. But that will be add a big expense.

Does anyone know what kind of oversight happens with the bill then? What it if that tips the CBO score from 1.4t to 1.500000001t? Wouldn't that force the bill back into general debate since that will require 60 votes?

gewy wrote:

Don't worry. This oversight will only be temporary.

Yeah but it will, however briefly, make the committee process a nightmare for McConnell and Ryan, so at least some small good came out of it.

And just in time for the Senate to have to vote on the tax bill again... House Republicans Already Shooting Down Tax Bill's Promises

Sens. Susan Collins (R-ME) and Jeff Flake (R-AZ) got assurances for their votes. Someone forgot to clear it with conservatives in the other chamber.

House Republicans in the Freedom Caucus and Republican Study Committee are saying no way to the DACA fix Flake wants and the ACA fixes Collins wants.

Edwin wrote:

And the easiest way to change that, to get rid of all other taxes (sales, property, etc) and go to a income only tax would help that out (i think) is being stopped by the state legislature.

doesn't the state supreme court knock down any attempt to establish income taxes? See recent attempt in Seattle. It's really sad we can't have an income tax on even the wealthiest in the area, of which there are so many...

Can they rescind their votes then?

Stele wrote:

Can they rescind their votes then?

No, but they can tell McConnell where to stick it if the bill comes back to the Senate after the conference committee. Or they can fold like a cheap lawn chair, which is about as likely in my view.

The best thing about that typo is that now the Senate has to vote on the bill again, so there is more time to pressure them. I was worried that despite the reservations many Republicans have with the Senate bill the House would just pass that version anyways, and it would never go back to the Senate again.

Chairman_Mao wrote:
Edwin wrote:

And the easiest way to change that, to get rid of all other taxes (sales, property, etc) and go to a income only tax would help that out (i think) is being stopped by the state legislature.

doesn't the state supreme court knock down any attempt to establish income taxes? See recent attempt in Seattle. It's really sad we can't have an income tax on even the wealthiest in the area, of which there are so many...

Because the last attempt was at the city level only when there is a state pre-emption against it. It would have to be done at the state legislature level to make it happen.

Edwin wrote:
Chairman_Mao wrote:
Edwin wrote:

And the easiest way to change that, to get rid of all other taxes (sales, property, etc) and go to a income only tax would help that out (i think) is being stopped by the state legislature.

doesn't the state supreme court knock down any attempt to establish income taxes? See recent attempt in Seattle. It's really sad we can't have an income tax on even the wealthiest in the area, of which there are so many...

Because the last attempt was at the city level only when there is a state pre-emption against it. It would have to be done at the state legislature level to make it happen.

Which stands slightly more of a chance now that the Republican lock on Olympia has been broken.

qaraq wrote:
Stele wrote:

Can they rescind their votes then?

No, but they can tell McConnell where to stick it if the bill comes back to the Senate after the conference committee. Or they can fold like a cheap lawn chair, which is about as likely in my view.

Edit: exponentially more likely, IMO

Tanglebones wrote:
qaraq wrote:
Stele wrote:

Can they rescind their votes then?

No, but they can tell McConnell where to stick it if the bill comes back to the Senate after the conference committee. Or they can fold like a cheap lawn chair, which is about as likely in my view.

Edit: exponentially more likely, IMO

Yeah, unless they get too personally offended about their "deals" being laughed out of Congress they'll cave. And they'll find a way to do that; stupid tax cuts for corporations and oligarchs are what Republicans do.

Still disappointed in McCain. He's not likely to run again. Would be a good chance to be the maverick he's always claimed to be, and also to stick it to Trump for all the sh*t he said about liking soldiers who don't get captured.

Stele wrote:

Still disappointed in McCain. He's not likely to run again. Would be a good chance to be the maverick he's always claimed to be, and also to stick it to Trump for all the sh*t he said about liking soldiers who don't get captured.

He’s too much of a coward for that.

Stele wrote:

Still disappointed in McCain. He's not likely to run again. Would be a good chance to be the maverick he's always claimed to be, and also to stick it to Trump for all the sh*t he said about liking soldiers who don't get captured.

Has claimed to be since he tried to rehabilitate his image, post-Keating 5

Reaper81 wrote:
Stele wrote:

Still disappointed in McCain. He's not likely to run again. Would be a good chance to be the maverick he's always claimed to be, and also to stick it to Trump for all the sh*t he said about liking soldiers who don't get captured.

He’s too much of a coward for that.

Easy tiger. If McCain is a coward, I shudder to think what that makes the rest of us who didn't hold out through years of torture.

Yeah but the alternative is that he really didn't care about those issues he stood for earlier and was just using that to keep his power.

Nomad wrote:
Reaper81 wrote:
Stele wrote:

Still disappointed in McCain. He's not likely to run again. Would be a good chance to be the maverick he's always claimed to be, and also to stick it to Trump for all the sh*t he said about liking soldiers who don't get captured.

He’s too much of a coward for that.

Easy tiger. If McCain is a coward, I shudder to think what that makes the rest of us who didn't hold out through years of torture.

How about he is a POLITICAL COWARD that says one thing and does the other. It has nothing to do with what happened to him in the past. I sincerely doubt you actually misunderstood what Reaper was talking about.

This is one reason you probably feel like you get attacked in this section of the forum. You intentionally misinterpreted what Reaper was posting about. Did you really thin Reaper, a combat veteran, was making a comment about the time McCain was MIA? Really? Read the room, mate.

Nomad wrote:
Reaper81 wrote:
Stele wrote:

Still disappointed in McCain. He's not likely to run again. Would be a good chance to be the maverick he's always claimed to be, and also to stick it to Trump for all the sh*t he said about liking soldiers who don't get captured.

He’s too much of a coward for that.

Easy tiger. If McCain is a coward, I shudder to think what that makes the rest of us who didn't hold out through years of torture.

When in a position to make real and meaningful change, he took the easy way out. Instead of standing up to a man and a Party all to willing to slander his service and sacrifice (and by extension the service of every veteran and POW ever), he capitulated, as he almost always does.

What honor or dignity does he have left?

If I were a United States Senator, every single waking moment of my life would be dedicated to shredding the agenda of the draft-dodging, child-rapist endorsing, serial philandering piece of sh*t that is our President.

"The war will be over by Christmas."

The Hill: McConnell 'almost certain' GOP will pass tax reform

"Well, almost certain. I mean, I can’t imagine having come this far we’re not going to finish the job," he told conservative radio host Hugh Hewitt.

Keeping the AMT was a huge blunder.
Already cutting the pork that bought them senate votes isn't a good sign.

We'll see.

I wish I knew the extent of their powers in committee. Dropping the 40b or 330b that leaving the AMT in there generates is a huge portion of the bill. I mean, if they're going to change 20% of the funding why not just pass a blank bill with a title and then negotiate with the house.

I can't see how this is still allowed to use reconciliation when their numbers aren't even remotely solid.