Epic Games Suing Cheat Makers now includes 14 year old kid that streamed/youtube how to use it

I may have the wrong place for this thread. It is a discussion but directly about games.

Polygon Article

So for those that do not know. Fortnite was originally a defense/loot Co-op game that was paid during early access but suppose to go F2P once released. They have added on a F2P battle royal mode.

Earlier than started lawsuits vs 2 people that created hacks and were hosting them for people to download.

Now a new wave of the same but they included a 14 year old kid that was streaming using the hacks. This kid also has youtube video that explains how to install/use the hacks.

Now, I am all for going after the cheat makers. I was 100% for this and thought it was great to see.

Now for the new one. I am kind of caught between two views. In one way people advertising cheating like this I do think should be targeted. However, I also think going after a 14 year old kid at this level is too far at the same time. However, I also see at epic if you file a disclaimer against the kids video you either have to take legal action or drop it. How as a business do they let him keep it up?

The simple thing would of simply been the kid (on his own or being forced by parents) should remove the video's and i'm sure Epic would back off. That is not the case currently though.

If I remove the "14 year old kid" part of the story it seems pretty cut and dried. A user posted a video on how to cheat in a game. It should be removed by Youtube.

farley3k wrote:

If I remove the "14 year old kid" part of the story it seems pretty cut and dried. A user posted a video on how to cheat in a game. It should be removed by Youtube.

YouTube hosts live streams of guys openly cheating at GS:GO and such. They even put it in the title.

I think it's sh*tty but if there a specific YouTube policy they could cite to justify removing it?

farley3k wrote:

If I remove the "14 year old kid" part of the story it seems pretty cut and dried. A user posted a video on how to cheat in a game. It should be removed by Youtube.

Yup. The kid's the one that forced this. He contested the DMCA takedown, leaving Epic only 2 options: withdraw the complaint or file a lawsuit. He admits to everything they say he did, but thinks that he should somehow be immune to any consequence.

Middcore wrote:
farley3k wrote:

If I remove the "14 year old kid" part of the story it seems pretty cut and dried. A user posted a video on how to cheat in a game. It should be removed by Youtube.

YouTube hosts live streams of guys openly cheating at GS:GO and such. They even put it in the title.

I think it's sh*tty but if there a specific YouTube policy they could cite to justify removing it?

DMCA. He's using Fortnite's game to promote a subscription cheating service.

I don't understand as a parent how you don't make the kid take down the video and make this go away.

escher77 wrote:

I don't understand as a parent how you don't make the kid take down the video and make this go away.

"My precious, sweet, and innocent child would never purposely do something wrong."

Yeah you are assuming the parents even know.

LeapingGnome wrote:

Yeah you are assuming the parents even know.

In the article it has an entire letter the mother wrote. So at least the mother is aware.

Yeah, who knows how this has been communicated to the parents. "This mean company is suing me because I'm too good at the game".

More likely, though, is that the parents are hoping for a payday out of this.

Nah, the kid fully admits to cheating but it's okay because he does it for fun and everyone else is doing it. He also admits to using footage of the game to promote the cheating site, but thinks that falls under fair use.

The mom's primary argument (which is slightly better) is that as a minor, the kid couldn't agree to the EULA or TOS agreements without parental permission, which she never gave, so they're unenforceable. Also that they're unenforceable because the kid never read them. I think Epic would be perfectly fine agreeing to drop the suit if she'd stop him from posting more videos or signing up for new accounts (he'd been banned 14 times under numerous fake names), but she also backs his arguments that he didn't do anything wrong in the first place.

Stengah wrote:
escher77 wrote:

I don't understand as a parent how you don't make the kid take down the video and make this go away.

"My precious, sweet, and innocent child would never purposely do something wrong."

As a parent of 15 and 13 year olds, I cannot count the number of parents I know that act like that. I take particular care to tell my kids that when they do dumb things, they are being morons. Parents have blindspots for their kids.

This lady's argument is the kid can't consent to the EULA so he's not responsible seems . . . dodgy. I don't know that clicking through that is somehow a magic gateway to responsibility.

And given that letter and the youtube video, I'd imagine that any lawyer's going to have an additional alcohol fee added to the per hour...

Apearently in his youtube video he was also playing GTA V in the background with yet another cheat going.

I've been thinking about this throughout the day, though the click-bait article I read about it did not go into as much detail as there is here. From my perspective, Epic should not be suing him, they should be suing his parents. That's really the only fault in their actions here.

Ultimately, while my children are still fairly young (early grade school age), they are not particularly responsible for their own actions online. At the age they are, I would give them... say 5% responsibility to not be dicks online, but it's mostly that low because neither can read yet. As such, I use parental locks, and rarely leave the room while they are on my PC playing around. I take that 95% seriously.

I'd say for this kid, he'd be taking about 49% responsibility, but the parents still retain the 51%... the majority. It's their duty to their child and society to effectively parent. His parents failed, and this lead to potential damages against an online service. The company used what resources were available to them (the DMCA take down), which was their legal version of a warning shot. Still, his parents weren't involved, had no clue what was going on with his channel, and so he was able to contest it and show that he was of a mind to fight this out with Epic.

I remember being a teenager, and I can't say I wouldn't have done the same thing, but he's certainly the one that picked this fight. And his parents are the ones that assumed he was mature enough to not f*ck their entire family over by picking legal fights with online companies. It's going to be interesting how this plays out. I'm actually hoping this blows up on the parents to show that, especially in this day and age, parents need to take an active role in their children's online lives.

Here is the video where he confesses to cheating. I don’t think my parents would have defended me like his have. More likely I would have had my toys taken away and made to apologize.

Guys he's just trying to have fun.

Piscean wrote:

I've been thinking about this throughout the day, though the click-bait article I read about it did not go into as much detail as there is here. From my perspective, Epic should not be suing him, they should be suing his parents. That's really the only fault in their actions here.

Ultimately, while my children are still fairly young (early grade school age), they are not particularly responsible for their own actions online. At the age they are, I would give them... say 5% responsibility to not be dicks online, but it's mostly that low because neither can read yet. As such, I use parental locks, and rarely leave the room while they are on my PC playing around. I take that 95% seriously.

I'd say for this kid, he'd be taking about 49% responsibility, but the parents still retain the 51%... the majority. It's their duty to their child and society to effectively parent. His parents failed, and this lead to potential damages against an online service. The company used what resources were available to them (the DMCA take down), which was their legal version of a warning shot. Still, his parents weren't involved, had no clue what was going on with his channel, and so he was able to contest it and show that he was of a mind to fight this out with Epic.

I remember being a teenager, and I can't say I wouldn't have done the same thing, but he's certainly the one that picked this fight. And his parents are the ones that assumed he was mature enough to not f*ck their entire family over by picking legal fights with online companies. It's going to be interesting how this plays out. I'm actually hoping this blows up on the parents to show that, especially in this day and age, parents need to take an active role in their children's online lives.

As he's a minor, they are effectively suing his parents. He's their legal responsibility, which I get the feeling is completely new information to them.

I've been thinking about this a lot too, and I'm glad you shared it. Although I have no strong opinions to register; I think morality and legality are clashing, and there are no clear good guys.