[Discussion] How to enact Gun Safety

The scope of this discussion is strictly options or suggestions on HOW to create policy and law and how to implement them in the US so as to reduce the number of guns in the hands of those who intend to use them for criminal purposes.

Whether or not those options should be explored is not under debate. The 2nd Amendment is not under debate nor under discussion. The assumption of the thread is that "gun control" law is necessary at this point and which policies and laws are good to pursue on the basis of putative results.

farley3k wrote:

Waiting Periods Really Do Reduce Gun Deaths

Interesting conclusions from a new gun study: Imposing a waiting period between the initiation of a gun purchase and the close of the sale significantly reduces deaths by gun violence. The study, which appears in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, shows that in the 17 states (including the District of Columbia) that have waiting periods of three to 14 days, gun homicides are reduced by approximately 17%, or 750 deaths per year.

Three Harvard Business School professors tracked policy changes from 1970 to 2014, as well as a subset of gun-violence data: the effect of the federal law that imposed a waiting period in some states on gun purchases from 1994-1998. They found that even short waiting periods “cause large and statistically significant reductions in homicides”; waiting periods also reduce suicides, though the effect is not quite as large.

Relevant part starts at 3:03

Time for our regular “thoughts and prayers” or alternatively dropping a few bombs on some failing majority Muslim state.

So sick of this.

Edit: Thoughts and prayers it is then.

Too bad the shooter wasn’t black. The feds are focused on stopping them. This is just another fun day in Texas and a reason to go gun shopping.

Yes send them prayers because it obviously helped so much to start with. They were in a church for God's sake.

At least 3 times the people killed than in New York. Where is the outrage now, 45?

IMAGE(https://i.imgur.com/XGtgt7W.jpg)

I knew the gunman was white simply by Trumps tweets.

Jayhawker wrote:

IMAGE(https://i.imgur.com/XGtgt7W.jpg)

It is devastating to see how spewing hatred and personal attacks garner so much public support in an event like this.

Nomad wrote:
Jayhawker wrote:

IMAGE(https://i.imgur.com/XGtgt7W.jpg)

It is devastating to see how spewing hatred and personal attacks garner so much public support in an event like this.

And furthermore, this tweet doesn’t even make sense. Does Wil think that these people were in church praying that someone wouldn’t come in and murder them? But hey, don’t let reasonable thinking get in the way of a snarky sound byte that gets you more likes on the internet.

/facepalm

Doesn't seem a great time to be poking at snarky theological debates.

From 45 I'd like to see less praying and more action on gun safety/control/restricting access/whatever but then that too is starting to look like it may require divine intervention.

Nomad wrote:

It is devastating to see how spewing hatred and personal attacks garner so much public support in an event like this.

Perhaps politicians and gun rights activists should stop using "thoughts and prayers" as an excuse to not f*cking do something about idiots with guns that can kill dozens of people in minutes.

We don't say "thoughts and prayers" when lots people die in car or plane crashes. We investigate, change regulations, make manufacturers change adopt new safety technology, and more. That's why those things have gotten safer even though we drive and fly a lot more.

Nomad wrote:

And furthermore, this tweet doesn’t even make sense. Does Wil think that these people were in church praying that someone wouldn’t come in and murder them? But hey, don’t let reasonable thinking get in the way of a snarky sound byte that gets you more likes on the internet.

/facepalm

"Thoughts and prayer" is a stock response to every mass shooting.

Wil pointed out that if prayer actually kept people safe then those people would still be alive. But prayer doesn't actually do that. It might some of us feel better, but it actually doesn't do anything to change the fact that we live in a country where too many idiots can easily get deadly weapons.

For once I'd like a politician to say "this shouldn't happen in America" or "never again." Because that would mean they want to actually do something make sure that politicians aren't going to be repeating "thoughts and prayers" in a few days or weeks.

If you want gun control vote democrat. /thread

The GOP does not care and never will. They will do nothing. I vote but otherwise accept some day in America I may be gunned down in a random act of violence. That is what Americans have voted for.

Some Conservatives and/or Russian bots are lying that the perpetrator was Antifa. They are doing everything possible to stir a civil war at this point.

OG_slinger wrote:
Nomad wrote:

It is devastating to see how spewing hatred and personal attacks garner so much public support in an event like this.

Perhaps politicians and gun rights activists should stop using "thoughts and prayers" as an excuse to not f*cking do something about idiots with guns that can kill dozens of people in minutes.

We don't say "thoughts and prayers" when lots people die in car or plane crashes. We investigate, change regulations, make manufacturers change adopt new safety technology, and more. That's why those things have gotten safer even though we drive and fly a lot more.

Nomad wrote:

And furthermore, this tweet doesn’t even make sense. Does Wil think that these people were in church praying that someone wouldn’t come in and murder them? But hey, don’t let reasonable thinking get in the way of a snarky sound byte that gets you more likes on the internet.

/facepalm

"Thoughts and prayer" is a stock response to every mass shooting.

Wil pointed out that if prayer actually kept people safe then those people would still be alive. But prayer doesn't actually do that. It might some of us feel better, but it actually doesn't do anything to change the fact that we live in a country where too many idiots can easily get deadly weapons.

For once I'd like a politician to say "this shouldn't happen in America" or "never again." Because that would mean they want to actually do something make sure that politicians aren't going to be repeating "thoughts and prayers" in a few days or weeks.

Wil also tweeted out several apologies instead of doubling down on his idiocy.

Is it legal to take body armor on a plane? I’m supposed to visit family in Texas for Thanksgiving.

BoogtehWoog wrote:

Some Conservatives and/or Russian bots are lying that the perpetrator was Antifa. They are doing everything possible to stir a civil war at this point.

Yep, I've also seen some stating he had converted to Islam and changed his name to Samir Al-Hajeed. Same crap happened with Las Vegas shooter too.

Nomad wrote:

Wil also tweeted out several apologies instead of doubling down on his idiocy.

It's much better to badger him for an apology than to call for stricter gun control. We all feel so much better.

Now Paul Ryan can go back to not giving a f*ck anymore.

Oh, and he also posted this.

IMAGE(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DN6HuLeV4AAZjE6.jpg:large)

Now is not the time to talk about gun control. Now is the time to talk about Whil Wheaton, he is the real problem.

Give the guy a break, he's just following orders.

IMAGE(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DN7RChQVoAAKO1R.jpg:large)

Pathetic.

Nomad wrote:
Nomad wrote:
Jayhawker wrote:

IMAGE(https://i.imgur.com/XGtgt7W.jpg)

It is devastating to see how spewing hatred and personal attacks garner so much public support in an event like this.

And furthermore, this tweet doesn’t even make sense. Does Wil think that these people were in church praying that someone wouldn’t come in and murder them? But hey, don’t let reasonable thinking get in the way of a snarky sound byte that gets you more likes on the internet.

/facepalm

I don't want to wade too deep in a religious thing, cause I was in that other thread and it got kinda ugly, but are you saying that you don't think prayers for health and safety are part of the standard prayer ritual? Maybe your church is unique and special, but they certainly were in every church I attended as a youngster, and I think it's a bit disingenuous to imply that wasn't the case in this church in Texas. Even from a religious "They are dead because they didn't pray hard or specific enough, but they would be alive if they had prayed about the right things" is a pretty horrific and callus line of argument to take. Borders on victim blaming. Better to just say "Prayer doesn't work that way, God works in mysterous ways" and leave it at that, at least that doesn't imply a congregation of churchgoers are complicit in their own massacre.

WW gave a brutal response obviously shot off in the heat of passion, which he later apologized for, that probably wouldn't have been my first place to go, I do 100% understand the anger and frustration when the people who have the power to do something instead throw up their hands and abdicate their responsibility to act to God, and winge about what a tragedy it is when God fails to do anything about it, Gods will they probably deserved it, mysterious ways, etc whatever.

Thoughts and Prayers from a lawmaker isn't sympathy or well wishing. It is an act of negligence, of shirking responsibility, of callously ignoring deaths because they are politically and/or financially inconvenient.

*Wipes froth from mouth, straightens tie, steps off soapbox*

Nomad wrote:
Nomad wrote:
Jayhawker wrote:

IMAGE(https://i.imgur.com/XGtgt7W.jpg)

It is devastating to see how spewing hatred and personal attacks garner so much public support in an event like this.

And furthermore, this tweet doesn’t even make sense. Does Wil think that these people were in church praying that someone wouldn’t come in and murder them? But hey, don’t let reasonable thinking get in the way of a snarky sound byte that gets you more likes on the internet.

/facepalm

Did you intentionally miss the point of the tweet?

karmajay wrote:
Nomad wrote:
Nomad wrote:
Jayhawker wrote:

IMAGE(https://i.imgur.com/XGtgt7W.jpg)

It is devastating to see how spewing hatred and personal attacks garner so much public support in an event like this.

And furthermore, this tweet doesn’t even make sense. Does Wil think that these people were in church praying that someone wouldn’t come in and murder them? But hey, don’t let reasonable thinking get in the way of a snarky sound byte that gets you more likes on the internet.

/facepalm

Did you intentionally miss the point of the tweet?

Having grown up in an apocalyptic Evangelical church, we FREQUENTLY did pray at the beginning of the service that gunmen wouldn’t burst through the door and kill us all.

thrawn82 wrote:

Thoughts and Prayers from a lawmaker isn't sympathy or well wishing. It is an act of negligence, of shirking responsibility, of callously ignoring deaths because they are politically and/or financially inconvenient

++++++++ I can only hit like once but I can repost!

farley3k wrote:
thrawn82 wrote:

Thoughts and Prayers from a lawmaker isn't sympathy or well wishing. It is an act of negligence, of shirking responsibility, of callously ignoring deaths because they are politically and/or financially inconvenient

++++++++ I can only hit like once but I can repost!

Certainly in the context of gun related atrocities, the whole "thoughts and prayers" thing does appear to be a way of saying "stfu about meaningful measures we can take right now".

farley3k wrote:
thrawn82 wrote:

Thoughts and Prayers from a lawmaker isn't sympathy or well wishing. It is an act of negligence, of shirking responsibility, of callously ignoring deaths because they are politically and/or financially inconvenient

++++++++ I can only hit like once but I can repost!

One like = 1 thought or prayer.

I think it's because Wil called Ryan a sack of sh*t that this one blew up.

Because I saw at least 10 similar responses from people I follow. 3 or 4 to that same Ryan tweet and the rest to other congressmen who also offered thoughts and prayers.

Our pastor's sermon this past Sunday (obviously before this shooting) kind of concerned the whole "thoughts and prayers" thing. He was primarily discussing situations where something bad happens to a person, and then people will respond with, "I'm praying for you," but with no further investment in the person having a problem. It's not that actual prayers are bad or even ineffective, but the way that people tend to use, "I'm praying for you" is often a standard way to end an uncomfortable conversation rather than truly *serving* the person in need of help.

So when politicians go, "thoughts and prayers," they are basically ending the discussion. Yes, thoughts and prayers *are* needed, but there also needs to be a real investment, a true serving of people's needs on this issue, not just platitudes with nothing further ever done.

When you're in the ER bleeding from a gunshot wound, you wouldn't want the surgeon to offer you "thoughts and prayers." That's not being insensitive. It also has nothing to do with religion.

bekkilyn wrote:

Our pastor's sermon this past Sunday (obviously before this shooting) kind of concerned the whole "thoughts and prayers" thing. He was primarily discussing situations where something bad happens to a person, and then people will respond with, "I'm praying for you," but with no further investment in the person having a problem. It's not that actual prayers are bad or even ineffective, but the way that people tend to use, "I'm praying for you" is often a standard way to end an uncomfortable conversation rather than truly *serving* the person in need of help.

So when politicians go, "thoughts and prayers," they are basically ending the discussion. Yes, thoughts and prayers *are* needed, but there also needs to be a real investment, a true serving of people's needs on this issue, not just platitudes with nothing further ever done.

Well said, bekkilyn.