[Discussion] NeoGAF is gone

NeoGAF is down, gone forever?

1Dgaf wrote:

There’s nothing objectionable about it as such, but It’s kind of nudging the discussioN so it respects the feelings of staff and commercial realities of development. Don’t call devs lazy, since they work hard on games. Even if the game didn’t turn out how you want.

I understand that, but as a consumer, that’s not necessarily my job. People can work very hard and still produce terrible products. How much sympathy should I have for the overworked chef whose food gives me the runs?

Um, plenty? Sure, having to stick within meters of a toilet bowl all day sucks, but working regular 80 hour weeks for an employer who doesn't respect the quality of life of its employees only to have random people call you lazy (instead of looking at the deeper problem over where the blame lies) as the cherry on the top? That is infinantly worse. Its not even measurable. Never mind that this isn't the marketplace, it's a moderated forum - asking for a little sympathy seems very reasonable.

Insult the game all you like - but at least recognise that making games is hard work, and sometimes even very hard work falls short.

garion333 wrote:

I'm continually shocked by people on Gaf who claim it's all going back to normal. Uh huh, sure.

Blind hope, ignorance, maybe simply being very young. Trump is not only POTUS, but he has an approval rating over 5%. This sort of blinkered thinking doesn't even come close to surprising me at this point.

To clarify I don't think I've ever called a dev lazy. But I'm not a random person in this example, I'm a paying customer.

When I pay for a game, I'm exchanging my money for their product. ANd we all earn money by sacrificing our time.

If this dev releases a sub-standard product, why is the onus on me to have sympathy for them, when I'm also being affected? Maybe I'm working incredibly hard under intense pressure, too. If I'm on a low wage, the cost to me to earn that game in hours worked might be higher than for the developer.

I think it's fair to ask people think about how games are developed and to consider taking that into account when responding, but surely at some point systemic failures in the industry/team size/tech problems/crunch time aren't the consumer's problem.

I think you’re looking at it all wrong. It’s about criticizing a game without being an asshole towards the developer.

Saying ”this game is crap and I’m not going to play any more” is fine while ”this game is crap and I want to line up the lazy devs and punch them in the mouth” is not.

I’m not suggesting that I’d want people to say they want to thump a dev and I think it would be fine for a mod to keep them in line. But I hope the mod could acknowledge some of the feelings of frustration and maybe even (anger) that people have.

You know, sometimes it’s OK to swear about things and people. (Though not at them)

I suppose what I’m wondering is thst I heard some industry people are involved in setting it up and how that’s going to affect th culture of the place. Would that bit about understanding devs be there otherwise?

Right now it’s a thread-for-thread NeoGAF clone, but how will it change in the future?

1Dgaf wrote:

You know, sometimes it’s OK to swear about things and people. (Though not at them)

That’s pretty much it.

And look, as far as I understand it GAF lost a lot of the industry people over the years because they didn’t feel like they were treated well. There is a lot of info about feelings like these out there, even not specific to GAF.

See, among many stories on the topic, this one about Blizzard:
https://kotaku.com/overwatch-directo...

My guess is that the rules for resetera are designed to make it clear that developers should feel welcome.

I opened an account on ResetEra.

Curious to see how it shakes out. I hope they can hold to the higher standard the modding staff are holding the members to.

I'm pretty optimistic at this point.

I ... can't find where to register. lol

Edit: Oh, invites are going out in waves or something.

Oh, I'm reminded of the "non disposable email accounts only" policy, with I think neogaf had too. Haven't had an email account like that in probably 10 years...

Mr GT Chris wrote:

Oh, I'm reminded of the "non disposable email accounts only" policy, with I think neogaf had too. Haven't had an email account like that in probably 10 years...

Yeah I'm a bit hesitant to use work email addresses for such things. I can see why they'd employ that rule, but meh.

That is such a silly requirement. I have had my Gmail account through 4 different jobs for over 15 years. It is far less disposable than my work email.

Well I put in for ResetEra as well, though who knows how long the wait will be for the activation email if they are going out in a graduated fashion.

My main fascination with GAF was the volume and speed of activity, things often move a bit too slow for me on this forum, though the wait is often rewarded, to be sure. But I've had my beefs with GAF management over the years, chaffing against how they treated developers and racking up some bans when Denis Dyack was trying to kickstart the Eternal Darkness follow up.

So many things seem different now, in retrospect. Remember EvilLore's comically self-righteous ban post for DD?

As Confucius once said, “the photoshop cat juggles a ball of yarn, and unravels it all over his face.” You are Baldur, Denis. You’re the poorly animated bald Norse technogod, the Übermensch with a thousand pointless book references misunderstood by the dirty proles who aren’t worthy enough to judge you.

Your favorite Nietzsche quote, “he who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster,” is one you’ve fallen victim to yourself, if your opinion of this site is to be taken to heart. In these pitiable confrontations with us you’ve proven to be the monster of gaming development, a sore on the industry and a squanderer of your subordinates’ time and effort. Through all this, through this self-inflicted PR nightmare, you’ve conquered vast new frontiers of unwarranted hyperbole and desperate pseudo-intellectual grasping. Buy an unaccredited doctorate, change your given name to Derek, and take up the reins; Derek Smart would eagerly defer to the greatness of Dr. Dyack.

What is an appropriate action to take in response to the man who continues to post here? I won’t be tolerating a second retconned “social experiment,” a second call for NeoGAF’s closing, or a second “worst forum” insult. You decided to ignore the option for real terms for your pointless tag bet, so with the majority of reviews condemning your magnum opus to mediocrity I’ll claim a suitable prize by telling you to get the hell off NeoGAF.

I'm giving ResetEra a try, if i ever get the activation email. Amazingly I also recently got a talking-time membership approved, that's an old chestnut, but Jeremy Parish hangs out there, so probably some good and informative conversation. Maybe, I'll bum around here more, as long as I don't get banned for still liking Denis Dyack.

I'm pretty sure our current ISP has given us some kind of default email address, buried somewhere in 10s of pages of contract documentation (in Japanese). But we've changed ISPs every year or so, why would we even bother to dig it up. Certainly not for a gaming discussion board.

Edit: and looking at the quality of some of the posters on neogaf, especially now, I'm not sure what having only "non disposable" email addresses has really gotten them. Less spam?

So I was always under the impression that NeoGAF was like 4chan... I didn't know they had improved during the gamer gate thing.

I also didn't realize how big it was. I have been using reddit to supplement my gamer/nerd related forum needs when GWJ didn't have enough interested people. Had most people here been using NeoGAF?

garion333 wrote:

I ... can't find where to register. lol

Edit: Oh, invites are going out in waves or something.

I understand that they are sending out waves of invites, but how do you even register to be considered for one of these waves? Also, put me down as someone who has been using gmail forever and have no idea about my current ISP email. The last ISP email I used was four ISPs ago.

Imbarkus wrote:

Well I put in for ResetEra as well, though who knows how long the wait will be for the activation email if they are going out in a graduated fashion.

My main fascination with GAF was the volume and speed of activity, things often move a bit too slow for me on this forum, though the wait is often rewarded, to be sure. But I've had my beefs with GAF management over the years, chaffing against how they treated developers and racking up some bans when Denis Dyack was trying to kickstart the Eternal Darkness follow up.

So many things seem different now, in retrospect. Remember EvilLore's comically self-righteous ban post for DD?

As Confucius once said, “the photoshop cat juggles a ball of yarn, and unravels it all over his face.” You are Baldur, Denis. You’re the poorly animated bald Norse technogod, the Übermensch with a thousand pointless book references misunderstood by the dirty proles who aren’t worthy enough to judge you.

Your favorite Nietzsche quote, “he who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster,” is one you’ve fallen victim to yourself, if your opinion of this site is to be taken to heart. In these pitiable confrontations with us you’ve proven to be the monster of gaming development, a sore on the industry and a squanderer of your subordinates’ time and effort. Through all this, through this self-inflicted PR nightmare, you’ve conquered vast new frontiers of unwarranted hyperbole and desperate pseudo-intellectual grasping. Buy an unaccredited doctorate, change your given name to Derek, and take up the reins; Derek Smart would eagerly defer to the greatness of Dr. Dyack.

What is an appropriate action to take in response to the man who continues to post here? I won’t be tolerating a second retconned “social experiment,” a second call for NeoGAF’s closing, or a second “worst forum” insult. You decided to ignore the option for real terms for your pointless tag bet, so with the majority of reviews condemning your magnum opus to mediocrity I’ll claim a suitable prize by telling you to get the hell off NeoGAF.

I'm giving ResetEra a try, if i ever get the activation email. Amazingly I also recently got a talking-time membership approved, that's an old chestnut, but Jeremy Parish hangs out there, so probably some good and informative conversation. Maybe, I'll bum around here more, as long as I don't get banned for still liking Denis Dyack. ;)

I still find it fascinating how you defend Dennis.

Wait, so Imbarkus is Dennis Dyack?

manta173 wrote:

So I was always under the impression that NeoGAF was like 4chan... I didn't know they had improved during the gamer gate thing.

I also didn't realize how big it was. I have been using reddit to supplement my gamer/nerd related forum needs when GWJ didn't have enough interested people. Had most people here been using NeoGAF?

“Using” is probably the right term for my relationship with NeoGAF.

I used to come on this board and ask questions like, “Should I buy this game or this other game?” “Should I keep my PS3?” I didn’t know any better at the time having spent most of my time on Gamefaqs.

Eventually when I realized GWJ was special and that I didn’t want to waste people’s time (as much as possible) I started going on high volume boards like Reddit or NeoGAF to just read people’s thoughts on stuff I was unsure about. Inevitably someone asked a question I was thinking, so I didn’t even have to ask it.

That’s the only way I’ll miss NeoGAF. I don’t want to participate in a board that big, but I enjoy the volume of opinions.

garion333 wrote:

I still find it fascinating how you defend Dennis.

Well it's not the craziest non-conventional gaming opinion you'll find lately, but I'm in the minority, for sure.

We Skyped a bunch, made "internet friends" while I was backing his game. He's a decent guy. Bad at PR... yet if you try, it's a real challenge to find an instance where he's ever launched an unfair or personal attack against anyone.

He first caught my attention in that old 1up Yours podcast when he launched into his intentional diatribe about Technopoly and how the anonymity and lack of reciprocal information on the internet was harmful in the long-term, how social media and message boards feeding a clickbait news atmosphere was leading to legitimate news outlets running with "fake news" and muddying the legitimate journalism waters, and how lack of ethical business practices in moderation and following their own rules would someday lead to an "apocalypse" for NeoGAF.

I followed up on all that talk, reading Technopoly and learning a hell of a lot about what is going on today. Denis Dyack was a progonsticator for the future, who ran a successful studio making SSI games and ports and a living for twenty plus years before everything that happened... happened.

What else can I say? Not a perfect guy, not the world's greatest game developer, but a decent (to me, personally) guy who ran a successful development house for decades, who I felt didn't get a fair shake after he sort of challenged a lot of things that people weren't into seeing challenged, at the time. Including Epic Games. I'll bet people at BlueHole have been reading up on Denis' experience, that's for sure.

But reading the last couple of pages of this thread, you were discussing overall dev treatment on GAF, and his name was just the first of many like Jaffe and Cliffy who would be banned for behavior that regular users would engage in every day. Talking to developers was the main reason I joined the stupid site. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Mr GT Chris wrote:

Oh, I'm reminded of the "non disposable email accounts only" policy, with I think neogaf had too. Haven't had an email account like that in probably 10 years...

Yeah, that was the reason I never made an account at NeoGaf. Not ever going to use my work mail for something like that.

Got a web domain mail account, but guess that does not work either (though I have no idea how they separate that from work mails). At least that was what seemed to fail at NeoGaf.
Other than work mails, do any mail accounts actually work?
ISP mails work it seems, but that is like the most disposable mail accounts ever.

I just realized that I actually did join a discord a while back and they're helpful enough to get me in at resetera. It's going to feel good being "home" again.

Missed the boat on the discord. I guess I'll have to wait until applications go public. Ah well, I can lurk the Poli thread.

DSGamer wrote:
nel e nel wrote:
Quintin_Stone wrote:

It's funny, NeoGAF used to be, many many years ago, basically a synonym for any sh*tty online community. I never visited there, but it seems like around when Gamergate hit is when their reputation started to rise out of the gutter, because they finally decided stringent moderation was needed. That was my view as a complete outsider, does that jive with what actually happened?

Not really, but that’s OK.

Is it more accurate to say people, in general, have become more socially aware? GWJ is also much different than it was 10 years ago. Partly because of gay, trans and minority members of the community have explained how certain jokes, memes, whatever hurt them.

I feel like I’ve changed politically and socially in 10 years. And not for the reasons conservatives might cite.

Sure, that's part of it, but reducing the history of that forum to, essentially, a wretched hive of scum and villainy meme is the equivalent of reducing the history of Gamers With Jobs to a SWJ hug box meme. It completely ignores how it got so big and how influential it's been, both good and bad.

Shadout wrote:
Mr GT Chris wrote:

Oh, I'm reminded of the "non disposable email accounts only" policy, with I think neogaf had too. Haven't had an email account like that in probably 10 years...

Yeah, that was the reason I never made an account at NeoGaf. Not ever going to use my work mail for something like that.

Got a web domain mail account, but guess that does not work either (though I have no idea how they separate that from work mails). At least that was what seemed to fail at NeoGaf.
Other than work mails, do any mail accounts actually work?
ISP mails work it seems, but that is like the most disposable mail accounts ever.

I think I only ever got the 'confirm your registration' email to my last work account and it was never sent anything after that. They do that to keep people from making burner accounts just to troll, and for people who get banned to stay banned.

Welp I'm good to go on ResetEra friend you can find me by the same name over there. I'll be sure to stop pop by here more often too.

So Resetera looks to me like it's pretty much like-for-like which is fine in my books. Neogaf was large enough to have some really good subcommunities within it and I liked browsing some of those threads, particularly the retro game ones that didn't move too fast to keep up with. Unfortunately it looks like at least part of the retro people splintered off on their own so who knows.

While listening to Waypoint and reading Patrick Klepek's piece I couldn't help but feel Malka could have managed his way through things by saying, "What Ms. Leupp says is true, the next morning we discussed what I did and how it was inappropriate and remained on friendly terms afterwards. She has every right to talk about what I did to her and how it makes her feel." but he doesn't seem to be that type of person and he probably has too many transgressions in his past with the revenge porn and the bragging about groping.

Oh, open registration is up: