Soccer Gaming Catch-All

This first season is taking me much more than that, but I'm sure they'll get faster as I understand the game better.

Having a rough time of it though with this first season with AFC Telford. At the midpoint we were sitting just below the middle of the table, but an injury to our leading scorer sparked a demoralizing stretch of losses that had us sitting one point out of the relegation zone with 11 games to go.

Fortunately, we've gotten our best striker healthy again and had a stretch of three easy games that we managed to pick up victories in. With 8 games left, we're in 14th place. Normally that would feel safe, but there is a cluster of teams in the bottom third, so we're only 4 points clear of 20th place, the last relegation spot. We'll need more points, and a good number of the last 8 games are against teams in the top third of the table.

We ended up finishing 12th in the league, out of 22 teams, by winning 7 of our last 10 games. I think I was pretty close to getting the sack though, as I got called into the board when we dropped to 19th place to explain myself. But our offense picked back up and a 12th-place finish led to a happy ending to the year, right at expectations.

I'm now just into the second season, after having what I thought was a solid off-season. We cleaned out all of the garbage we inherited when we took over, picked up two solid central midfielders on loans, and completely upgraded our defense. We now have depth and a marked uptick in quality of players. We went undefeated in pre-season friendlies, winning four and tying one.

But optimism is a fickle mistress, and we just lost our first three games to start the new season. We're kind of playing like Arsenal. We've had more chances than our opponent has in all three games, but we just keep missing the net. Then we make some goofy mistake in our own end and give up a goal. We hit woodwork four times in the last game, but lost 3-1 because we fouled opponents twice inside the 18. And next up we have the team currently sitting in first place. Sigh.

I'm hopeful we can turn this around. It doesn't take much to lose the locker room, and I don't have much history with the club to keep me from getting fired if this goes on too long.

I love these write-ups, keep 'em coming

After reading The Mixer, a book on the evolution of tactics during 25 years of Premier League, I got the itch again and played some FM Mobile 2017. It didn't scratch the itch though, as I'm not able to read the match while it's happening. The text popups just aren't enough, but I don't have the mental stamina to get into 'real' FM either.

dejanzie wrote:

I love these write-ups, keep 'em coming :-)

Thank you!

dejanzie wrote:

After reading The Mixer, a book on the evolution of tactics during 25 years of Premier League, I got the itch again and played some FM Mobile 2017. It didn't scratch the itch though, as I'm not able to read the match while it's happening. The text popups just aren't enough, but I don't have the mental stamina to get into 'real' FM either.

This is the first time I've played with the visual match, so I imagine it's been a long time since I played earlier versions. I'm not sure when the visual match simulation was introduced, but back in the day all you had was the visual text representation.

"Mental stamina" is a good word for it. This is my third attempt at trying to get into a newer version of FM, and the previous two attempts were just too overwhelming. Despite the integrated help system, it's not a game that lends itself to casual learning. The thing that helped this time was embracing the complexity as a friend and not rushing through things.

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On another note, things have taken a dramatic turn for the better with AFC Telford. After losing our first three, we went on a tear, winning seven league games in a row. I think we just needed to play our way into better condition and familiarity with our new system.

Our formation is helping too. We've been running a 3-1-4-2 this season, and it's opened up our offense. Having a defensive mid in front of our defensive line has enabled us to keep possession in the opponent's end of the pitch much better than last year. Last year we were out possessed in 90% of our matches; this season we're winning the possession battle in most games we play. We've scored a league-high 29 goals in 11 games. Our outside mids aren't that good at covering our flanks yet, so we are giving up a good number of goals on crosses from the wings, but it's making for some exciting high scoring soccer matches. For every one that they get, we try to get two.

The end result is that a quarter of the way through our second season, we're sitting in second place, 3 points off the top spot, with a +12 Goal Differential. The players are mostly happy, although I've got a few grumbling about playing time and a few grumbling about the heavy training. The board and fans are thrilled. It's Good Times at AFC Telford for the moment.

Considering I started this damn thread, I haven't posted in it nearly enough.

I am currently attempting to turn Holland into a nation with top-level clubs again in FM, albeit with FC Eindhoven, so as to break up the triopoly atop the Eredivisie. It's been... interesting. One of our first-teamers has a Determination of 2.

TWO.

Also, I'm looking forward to seeing what they'll do with PES this year (I've largely been a PES partisan over FIFA).

Prederick wrote:

Also, I'm looking forward to seeing what they'll do with PES this year (I've largely been a PES partisan over FIFA).

I've got €100 on incremental improvements, marketed as the next coming of Maradona's hand.

Prederick wrote:

I am currently attempting to turn Holland into a nation with top-level clubs again in FM, albeit with FC Eindhoven, so as to break up the triopoly atop the Eredivisie. It's been... interesting. One of our first-teamers has a Determination of 2.

TWO.

Ha! Does he even show up for practice? Even down in the 5th tier of English football, that's something I'd be inclined to dismiss out of hand. I had my eyes on a really good Central Defender who was perfect for our team in every way except Determination, which was a 1. I passed on him, although I wondered how much it would matter. I confess that I don't have a ton of experience bringing in low Determination players.

Are their cases in FM where Determination completely switches around, so that someone with a 1 or 2 Determination could get super motivated and end up with a high Determination rating?

Godzilla Blitz wrote:

Ha! Does he even show up for practice? Even down in the 5th tier of English football, that's something I'd be inclined to dismiss out of hand. I had my eyes on a really good Central Defender who was perfect for our team in every way except Determination, which was a 1. I passed on him, although I wondered how much it would matter. I confess that I don't have a ton of experience bringing in low Determination players.

Are their cases in FM where Determination completely switches around, so that someone with a 1 or 2 Determination could get super motivated and end up with a high Determination rating?

It's amazing, because he's not a bad professional, at least from what I've seen.

Personally, Determination is one of the key attributes I look for in the game. I've had bad teams with GREAT overall determination who went out and got results they had no right to get. I also think Determination (along with Composure) is the line between teams that give up a goal when they're up 2-0 and completely sh*t the bed, and teams who give up said same goal, get pissed off, go up the other end and put the game away for good.

We actually got promoted at the first try thanks to a bunch of free transfer signings, but it's January now and the poaching has begun in earnest. So frustrating.

dejanzie wrote:
Prederick wrote:

Also, I'm looking forward to seeing what they'll do with PES this year (I've largely been a PES partisan over FIFA).

I've got €100 on incremental improvements, marketed as the next coming of Maradona's hand.

Are you talking about PES or FIFA? Or Madden? Or NBA 2K? Or the NHL series? Or FM? Or MLB: The Show? Or literally every single other annual-release sports game on the planet?

I have some friends who are die-hard Football Manager players (they play few other games) and I asked them if they have ever managed to get a target man to work. One friend said he did once with Northern Ireland, with a striker who had nearly all stats maxed out, but that was it.

Out of curiosity, has anyone else ever managed to make a target man effective? I just can't seem to do it no matter what I try.

I'm pretty sure I had Mitrovic play pretty effectively as a Target Man in a 4-4-1-1 or 4-2-3-1 in an FM16 file but I don't remember the details that well. Think I had him on attack, Ayoze retrained as a Support Striker as an AMC and my wide players were set to be wingers on support duty if it was a 4231 or at least one was attack if it was 4-4-1-1. I think Mitrovic had 18-20 goals one season but then fell off a cliff.

I don't recall if FM had roles yet when Andy Carroll was at Newcastle but I had him work there too although most of that was he was impossible to stop on set pieces.

And there was the time I used Alan Shearer as the big man with Owen as the little poacher in FM06. Then Shearer retired, I brought in James Beattie and told my friend in IRC I had found a "new Shearer." I still hear about that.

Prederick wrote:
dejanzie wrote:
Prederick wrote:

Also, I'm looking forward to seeing what they'll do with PES this year (I've largely been a PES partisan over FIFA).

I've got €100 on incremental improvements, marketed as the next coming of Maradona's hand.

Are you talking about PES or FIFA? Or Madden? Or NBA 2K? Or the NHL series? Or FM? Or MLB: The Show? Or literally every single other annual-release sports game on the planet? :D

Touche, though I stand by my point I actually really liked PES 2017, so there isn't much I want from PES 2018 except for more licenses. While 2017 made it much easier to mass import names/logos/etc. on PS4 (I play console for couch competitions with my friends), unfortunately since the last version the database reverts to default when another user logs in.

Clusks wrote:

I have some friends who are die-hard Football Manager players (they play few other games) and I asked them if they have ever managed to get a target man to work. One friend said he did once with Northern Ireland, with a striker who had nearly all stats maxed out, but that was it.

Out of curiosity, has anyone else ever managed to make a target man effective? I just can't seem to do it no matter what I try.

That's interesting... What do you mean by 'effective'? A target man who can hold up the ball and pass it on to a speedier forward, or one who scores 30 goals per year, or just a tactic that works with a target man up front?

Target Man was easier in the older versions. I had a deadly one in FM06. 6'7" with not great technical skills, but high work rate, bravery and strength.

My current FM14 game I play with a deep target man, but I'm playing a very defensive 4-5-1 which seems to help.

Prederick wrote:

We actually got promoted at the first try thanks to a bunch of free transfer signings, but it's January now and the poaching has begun in earnest. So frustrating.

Congrats on the promotion! Sorry to hear about the poaching, but aren't you in the middle of year 2 then?

Clusks wrote:

Out of curiosity, has anyone else ever managed to make a target man effective? I just can't seem to do it no matter what I try.

I haven't tried it yet, but I have a young and rising striker who plays best in that role. He's starting to get some playing time, but nothing significant yet.

----

I've slowed some with my AFC Telford run, but I'm still making daily progress. Our play has dropped off as well, as we're now six points back of the leader. It's still early, but it's nice to be sitting in the playoff zone for the moment. It'd be fantastic to make the playoffs for promotion, as expectations were for us to finish mid-table.

I also got an email for a job interview with the last place team in the Vanarama National League, but I turned it down. Their situation looked grim, with little financial room to make quick repairs and avoid the drop. I'd rather see this out with Telford.

By effective, I guess I mean a target man who can really help with attacks. Whenever I've tried to deploy one, games just seem to go by with few chances for my team, despite having players that seem to have decent attributes for it, I'm sure there has to be a specific set up you need to apply alongside a target man.

My current target man isn't high on some of the traditional Target Man skills like teamwork or work rate, but he's strong and good on the ball, so I have him set to "run much more with the ball" and then my team sets up very deep and blocks with eight.

As soon as someone wins the ball they get it up toward the Forward and he either holds it for the overlapping wingers, or turns and runs at the defence himself.

He's very streaky and I have to work with his personality traits as he tends to have a couple good games, then suffer from the pressure a little... I then go in with the "I have faith in you!" pre-game speech and that pulls out another couple performances from him.

Despite this he ends up in about the same place for goals each season. He's inconsistently consistent.

We had a nice run of five wins tonight to get us to first place (by goal differential) in the Vanarama North league, at just about the halfway point in the season. Included in the wins were victories against the 3rd, 4th, and 7th place teams.

I'm still running a 3-1-4-2 DM formation, and have started asked the left and right center backs to push out in more of a stopper roll, as teams were killing us with crosses from the wings. This has brought immediate results. In the five-game run we only conceded three goals, our best defensive stretch of the season.

Our offense leads the league in goals scored, and our best striker, Kasheme Walton, leads the league with 20 goals. Walton, as well as all four of our midfielders and our most central defender, are all in the top ten in the league for average game rating.

The back half of the season should be an interesting run. It'd be awesome to make the jump to the Vanarama National league. If we stay healthy, we just might have the mojo to pull it off.

Clusks wrote:

I have some friends who are die-hard Football Manager players (they play few other games) and I asked them if they have ever managed to get a target man to work. One friend said he did once with Northern Ireland, with a striker who had nearly all stats maxed out, but that was it.

Out of curiosity, has anyone else ever managed to make a target man effective? I just can't seem to do it no matter what I try.

I'm making it work in my Eindhoven game at the moment. generally, now, when I build a tactic I follow Guide to Football Manager.com's... well... guide. And I've had pretty decent success with a TM, assuming he has the attributes needed to actually BE one.

dejanzie wrote:

Touche, though I stand by my point I actually really liked PES 2017, so there isn't much I want from PES 2018 except for more licenses. While 2017 made it much easier to mass import names/logos/etc. on PS4 (I play console for couch competitions with my friends), unfortunately since the last version the database reverts to default when another user logs in.

Yeah, I think it'll forever be a mod thing. I don't know if EA's wrapped up the exclusivity (I find it endlessly hilarious that Konami somehow managed to snap up the Champions League from EA. Almost none of the Premier League or La Liga, don't have the Bundesliga, but kept EA from getting the Champions League) or if it's too expensive, but I'm kind of resigned to the fact that if I want totally updated kits and logos in PES, I'm going to have to rely on the internet to do it for me.

Godzilla Blitz wrote:

Congrats on the promotion! Sorry to hear about the poaching, but aren't you in the middle of year 2 then?

Indeed. I am currently trying to hang on to Feiz Shamsin, who has attracted the attention of such luminous names as UD Las Palmas and Dinamo Zagreb. He's been good about it, since they've been lowballing us so far and not meeting his entirely reasonable Minimum Fee Release (just $6M), but if they come in with a decent offer, he's gone. We're damn near breaking the bank payingFeiz $300K a year (or, £5K per week, for those of you in the UK/Europe) and they can offer him over $1M a year. We just can't come close to matching that.

Mr Bismarck wrote:

Despite this he ends up in about the same place for goals each season. He's inconsistently consistent.

He also appears to be a scantily-clad fictional lady barbarian.

IMAGE(https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/2/29837/828576-redsonja_land_cov.jpg)

I feel like this kit violates several FIFA rules, but who's paying attention to a regionalliga team anyway?

Heh. A habit I got into about, (oh god), 18 years ago now.

When playing in the bottom leagues, nickname all your players, so that when you find someone who will sign for the worst team in the Croatian Potato Farmer's League, Third Division, (Regional), and play twice a week for five Euros, you're not giving his details away to anyone else who enjoys the challenge of truly dreadful football.

The only people I don't nickname are loan players. Which is how I end up with this lineup.

I took St. Albans from Conference South to Premier League glory a decade ago and I can still name the starting eleven. Except I don't know who any of them are, because I only know them as nicknames.

Haha. That's too funny. I particularly like Giggle Burger and Jesus Speedos. And how can you you lose with a 12-foot Pizza in goal?!?

That's awesome.

Blimey, your Red Sonja is bringing a whole new meaning to BLUF (Big Lass Up Front). The sword probably helps as well - maybe she can use it on Mike Dean.

So! The Lichstad Derby is when PSV Eindhoven takes on FC Eindhoven. We've contested it once already in my FM game, and PSV drubbed us 3-1 in league play (the 1 was a penalty).

However, we took them on in the KNVB Cup, and PSV decided to start a bunch of their youngsters. The result?

A 2-1 victory over our (not really) hated rivals. I hope I get to put some fire back into the rivalry, when we got promoted the first thing I did was cancel the link between our teams. We're not going to be junior to PSV, we want to be better than them. Even if that's a long, long way away.

Prederick wrote:

So! The Lichstad Derby is when PSV Eindhoven takes on FC Eindhoven. We've contested it once already in my FM game, and PSV drubbed us 3-1 in league play (the 1 was a penalty).

However, we took them on in the KNVB Cup, and PSV decided to start a bunch of their youngsters. The result?

A 2-1 victory over our (not really) hated rivals. I hope I get to put some fire back into the rivalry, when we got promoted the first thing I did was cancel the link between our teams. We're not going to be junior to PSV, we want to be better than them. Even if that's a long, long way away.

LichTstad. Licht = light(bulb), as Eindhoven is where Philips was founded.

/pedant

In Conference Premier with Darlington I was on a really good run, and have pushed my way into the playoff places, largely due to a young midfielder I snapped up who has a vision of 12 and a passing of 15. He was struggling as an advanced playmaker (I was reading that your team gives the ball to them as much as possible, which I think was meaning too much reliance on a young player, and not really allowing others to get into the game), so I switched him to a faux-playmaker, which is just a central midfielder who does more direct risky passing. It was working wonders.

So naturally, with 12 or so games to go, and 3 points off the top of the league, he goes and breaks his leg.

Would it make sense to start a Football Manager thread?

Clusks wrote:

In Conference Premier with Darlington I was on a really good run, and have pushed my way into the playoff places, largely due to a young midfielder I snapped up who has a vision of 12 and a passing of 15. He was struggling as an advanced playmaker (I was reading that your team gives the ball to them as much as possible, which I think was meaning too much reliance on a young player, and not really allowing others to get into the game), so I switched him to a faux-playmaker, which is just a central midfielder who does more direct risky passing. It was working wonders.

So naturally, with 12 or so games to go, and 3 points off the top of the league, he goes and breaks his leg.

Oh, that's gotta hurt! Good luck patching the finish together.

I've got a heavy reliance on a key midfielder as well. He's a loaner from the Sky Bet Two Conference, which is two levels above ours, and he's way better than the level of talent in our league. I have no idea how the loan request got accepted, as every other player we've sought at that level gets the "we'd like our player to play at a higher level" kind of rejection.

I'm just waiting for them to realize that he should be playing at a higher level, recall him, and end our magic party time.

Finally in our third season, we went to Saarbrucken and Red Sonja scored a peach of a header to give us a 1-0 win and do this...

The goal confirmed our promotion.

Despite the attention for Red Sonja the key has been our defence. Our formation is really a 4-1-4-1, but we play one of our CM's on "Defensive" and the opposite fullback as "Limited" in an attempt to just stifle the opposition. Down in division three there aren't too many Pirlo's knocking around who can unlock a stacked defence like that, so it's working out.

About half the team has their contracts expire this off-season and I'm not rushing to renew them as most of them will probably have to be replaced anyway.

Congrats Bismarck! I take it you develop your tactics yourself? In recent years, since I've had less time and the game has gotten more complicated, I haven't had the patience to build my own and test it. I've preferred to just plug and play and get to the action as soon as possible. And I usually start with Arsenal too as that's my team (I am so depressed right now...). However, I'm very tempted to start lower down the league's.

How many hours would you say it takes to play 3 seasons these days?

Congrats indeed, that's some solid defending! Only 18 goals conceded in 35 games, not bad.

How did you divine from the games you played that a solid block in the back would help you out?

After beating Saarbrucken to seal promotion and apparently wrap up the title we immediately lost at home to Wehen, while Saarbrucken won. That seemed to keep the title race alive, but Saarbrucken collapsed under the pressure and lost their last two games.

We came from behind to win our penultimate game and then cantered by Chemnitz 3-0 in the final game to finish with 83 points, with 58 goals scored and 21 allowed.

Sonja scored three times in those three games to finish with 21 himself - exactly matching the total we conceded as a team all season.

kergguz wrote:

I take it you develop your tactics yourself?

dejanzie wrote:

How did you divine from the games you played that a solid block in the back would help you out?

I did create the tactic myself, but it happened organically rather than as some stifling, defensive masterplan.

I have an almost Arsene-like love for Attacking Midfielders, so I always try to make a 4-3-3 work, but when I took over Berghausen I had an armful of Defensive Midfielders and I didn't really have the creative Central Midfielder to tie the two halves of the team together.

So I started out with a 4-2-1-2-1 with two DMs and two Wingers playing just behind the Forward and tried to play long passes to cover the gaps between the deep defence and an attack trying to play high up on the shoulder of the defence.

I couldn't get that to work, so I dropped the two wingers back from behind the forward to in line with the CM. This meant I didn't really need two DMs any more, so I pushed one of those forward, which gave me a fairly conventional midfield five of DM, 2xCM and then a winger on the left and a wide midfielder on the right.

Because one of those CMs was actually a natural DM I played him on defensive.

With the other CM on box-to-box this kind of stretched the DM/CM/CM three vertically. With a WM on the right and a W on the left this made a kind of "chain" up the field that people could pass through to move the ball forward.

Then with three Defenders set to Defensive, (the LB is on support to help the Winger), and an Anchor Man DM, whenever we lost the ball the opposition were denied the sort of instant-counter attacks you see where you give up a goal by being massively out of position.

At the lowest levels making the opposition have to work for every opportunity makes life difficult for them as the individuals don't have the technical ability.

Yes, congrats on the promotion, Bismark! Fantastic work.

kergguz wrote:

How many hours would you say it takes to play 3 seasons these days?

For what it's worth, my first season took forever, but the key for me to finally enjoying the game was to slow down and enjoy the season I was in. When the game was simpler, I could play seasons much faster and the enjoyment I got from the game was the development of the team and club over the course of many seasons. I feel like the current version of the game has more stuff in it to make individual games and a single season itself more immersive. As a manager, you have a lot more control over the results through formations and tactics than in earlier versions. This adds a whole new element to the game that makes playing an individual season much more fun. In order for me to enjoy the current version of the game, I had to play in a completely different mindset than I did with much older versions of the game.

For the math, I think my first season actually took me about 40 hours. Much of that was reading about how to play while the game was open on the side and re-learning the game. I was pretty inefficient with scouting searches and finding the information I needed.

My second season looks like it will take me about 15-20 hours now that I've learned the players and figured out much of the interface. I still see a lot of places where I'm inefficient though and expect I'll get a lot faster the more I play. Also, I'm watching all games, including friendlies, with extended highlights on. That means that each game takes about ten minutes or so to get through. At some point I'm sure I'll switch to major highlights, but at the moment I feel like watching the extended highlights is really helping me to spot weaknesses in tactics and players. Mostly, though, I'm measuring my time with the game on how much fun I'm having with the one season I'm in, and have been a lot less concerned with getting through a season. So I'm fine with how long it's taking.

I used to prefer the game when it was a career simulator over where it is now where it's more of a match simulator. I liked seeing players come through and develop and then move on or get left behind as we moved up and then following their careers after the left. These days I'm lucky if I get through six or more seasons in any career.

Certainly my earlier seasons took longer, just like Godzilla Blitz's, just because I didn't know my team at all or what the players could or couldn't do, so I would watch the full 90 minutes, (on a faster speed than 1:1), for quite a while. Then drop down to extended highlights and now, at the end of the third season I'm just watching "key" highlights and reading ratings on the fly to get an impression of how the game's going and what I might want to change.

Next year when I'm up a division with new opponents and half a new squad it'll be back to fuller highlights and a slower pace.