Hollow Knight

So, yeah. TWP.

Aaaaaaaaaarrrggghhhh.

I died so many times in there. Without hiveblood, I don't think I could have completed it.

I'm a fair hand at platfomers, though probably not in super meat boy terms. This felt like a monumental ramp up in platforming difficulty. I knew it was going to be (thanks to this thread), and yet I was *still* not prepared. The most frustrating thing was to know how to do a section, but continually fail to get through. It would either be due to a screw-up of timing, or one of the occasional frame-rate hitches I've been experiencing while playing over the steam link. I would have preferred a more standard setting w enemies and moderate trap navigation.

But, now it's done. I have killed lost kin and soul tyrant, but false champion has my number. Not maxed on masks either. Doubt I'll bother with round 3 of the colleseum. Not sure I have the patience for grey mourner's quest.

I need to finish, so as to get on to Zelda!

Grey mourner quest was OK, a bit tedious and apparently I did not choose the safest route. So perhaps it could have been a lot less tedious.

The 3rd colloseum challenge I just found to be a miserable experience

DanB wrote:

Grey mourner quest was OK, a bit tedious and apparently I did not choose the safest route. So perhaps it could have been a lot less tedious.

The 3rd colloseum challenge I just found to be a miserable experience

I'll have to see what the advised route is. Not being able to take a single hit is.... troubling.

The colosseum fight is just for an achievement?

You get an achievement and a single percentage point towards completion for the final colloseum challenge

DanB wrote:

You get an achievement and a single percentage point towards completion for the final colloseum challenge

Erk. 100% completion.. So.. Torn...

Those framerate hitches don't have anything to do with the link. They happen to just about everyone.

Tyops wrote:

Those framerate hitches don't have anything to do with the link. They happen to just about everyone.

Lovely. Well, regardless of the source, I imagine we all agree that they are largely detrimental in a precision required platforming sequence!

Unrelated, I noticed that my version number updated to what appears to be the beta track? I am not configured to pull beta patches. Anyone else seen this?

Tyrian wrote:

Unrelated, I noticed that my version number updated to what appears to be the beta track? I am not configured to pull beta patches. Anyone else seen this?

If we're talking Steam. They pushed the new version to everyone, it's not a beta release and allegedly has a frame stutter fixed

DanB wrote:
Tyrian wrote:

Unrelated, I noticed that my version number updated to what appears to be the beta track? I am not configured to pull beta patches. Anyone else seen this?

If we're talking Steam. They pushed the new version to everyone, it's not a beta release and allegedly has a frame stutter fixed

We are. I guess they only posted about it in the Discussions area, as the news page doesn't seem to have anything about it. Sadly, I'm reasonably sure I was still getting the occasional FR hitch even after the patch.

Also, increasing the notch cost of Quick Slash is sad. Glad it doesn't affect the current game, as it's just insanely useful.

From what I now see of the patch notes from yesterday 1.0.1.1 is supposed to be a beta. Looks like they pushed it to everyone on Steam instead. I wonder if that was a mistake.

The previous patch, 1.0.0.7, was supposed to have included the fix for the frame stutter but for me it made it worse.

After about an hour with this game... I'm thoroughly lost. I've managed to beat the first boss and pick up my first ability, but it seems like there is sooooo much about this game that I'm missing or just don't understand.

The lack of a map initially, and the incompleteness of the map after purchase are maddening and trying to explore every path has taken me on some extremely long tangents several times already. With the world as sparsely populated by NPCs and any sort of equipment or pickups, both landmarks and rewards beyond the gameplay seem hard to come by... the joy of exploration just isn't there for me yet.

I think I'm really going to like this game after I get over the initial sense of being overwhelmed and lost. How long until this game 'clicked' for people? I can't find much in the way of basics, or "things you should know" guide for this game so but any help getting me over that hill faster is definitely appreciated.

I threw down some minor tips on the previous page, though nothing relevant to feeling overwhelmed. I'll say this: You're overestimating how much it is you don't understand. There's just a lot of different paths. If you're not having fun exploring, ensure you've gotten every mapping item (the map - there's one for each area*, the quill for marking explored territory, the compass, and the individual pins), try to avoid the Deepnest for now, and maybe head west/left. If you're still chasing your bliss after beating the next area (think green), we can point you in the right direction.

*Your first priority on entering a new area should be to find the cartographer, Cornifer. He won't always be close to any entrance, but he does leave a paper trail, and emits a fairly loud noise. I don't really think you would enjoy the game any less if, after some time spent looking, you kept a map handy to pinpoint his location.

I feel like this game wants you to feel a bit more directionless than other Metroidvanias as well, truth told. The game only opens up more and more as you proceed, so if after obtaining the compass and quill you're still not having a good time then it may simply not be for you. Even with compass and quill, any area you enter will lack a map, and you'll have to work through until you find Cornifer. I don't mind this myself, as it certainly forces me to keep the layout of the place in mind best I can.

So I hit 100% completion and it was meh.

The final (nearly) 10 hours I spent with the game to close up all the end game content was not great. I want to say that it isn't well balanced but 'poorly paced' is likely the better description. The end game has a number of non-essential tasks and most of them were time consuming in summary

The White Palace: In retrospect I liked this, it was a bit annoying and felt out of place but I was able to sit down and complete it within a single gaming session. It didn't feel like it broke the pace of the game.

The Colosseum: I like the idea, I found the 3rd challenge to be utterly miserable, took me many hours and was made doubly miserable by the frame stutter bug killing me on occasion. As mentioned above 6 shorter challenges covering the same content would have been better for me and better paced.

Hunter's Journal: Kind of fun/interesting during the play through. But at the end of the game it was really, really dull and boring having to travel to odd corners of the map just to catch something I'd apparently missed

Grey Mourner: fiddly and a little annoying but probably easier if I'd looked up the safest path. I didn't love it but like The white Palace it took less than a single gaming session.

Spoiler:

Mr Mushroom: As with the hunter's journal it was just boring going to slightly out of the way bits of the map that you'd been to many times before

Void Heart Charm: annoying having to detour once again to the abyss which has no immediately useful quick travel spot

In total I found the end of the game to be boring. Obviously to some extent that is my own fault for wanting to get 100% (and the other bits) but at the same time I wanted to see all the content which I don't think is an unreasonable desire. Nevertheless it is a real shame that a game that was otherwise excellent, engaging and fun totally squandered that with very poor pacing for the end game content.

A lot of the final things to do require that you visit specific map locations and a lot of the tedium could have been avoided if the stag stations were better laid out. The nearest station for much of Deepnest, Kingdom's edge, Ancient basin and the Abyss is King's Station so if you've forgotten anything in one of those areas it is quite a trek.

DanB wrote:

So I hit 100% completion and it was meh.

The final (nearly) 10 hours I spent with the game to close up all the end game content was not great. I want to say that it isn't well balanced but 'poorly paced' is likely the better description. The end game has a number of non-essential tasks and most of them were time consuming in summary

[ ... snipped ... ]

In total I found the end of the game to be boring. Obviously to some extent that is my own fault for wanting to get 100% (and the other bits) but at the same time I wanted to see all the content which I don't think is an unreasonable desire. Nevertheless it is a real shame that a game that was otherwise excellent, engaging and fun totally squandered that with very poor pacing for the end game content.

A lot of the final things to do require that you visit specific map locations and a lot of the tedium could have been avoided if the stag stations were better laid out. The nearest station for much of Deepnest, Kingdom's edge, Ancient basin and the Abyss is King's Station so if you've forgotten anything in one of those areas it is quite a trek.

I think I'm pretty much on-board with the above, 100%.

I've definitely enjoyed my time in the game, but the last bits I need to do (Challenge of the Fool, 4-5 things left for Hunter's Journal, Grey Mourner) aren't really exciting me. I also concur about the placement of Stag Stations. There's not one in the Crystal Peak? Nor the Ancient Basin? The one in the Deepnest seems to have a single specific purpose, and is effectively useless for navigation otherwise.

I will also admit, I don't really like the map system as-is. Find map vendor, buy map, then use purchased things to further expand map, but only when resting, oh, and no way to know where you are without using something and sacrificing a single charm slot. Not overwhelming, but annoying. I prefer the automapping stuff you'd get in other genre entries, but maybe I'm just lazy that way.

I still remain remarkably impressed with the effort overall, though. For a new studio's first title, it shows a remarkable amount of polish. I also admit that I like the aesthetic quite a bit. So, that said, I will definitely keep an eye out for anything else they work on.

I'm quite divided about the map. I quite liked having to find Conifer to get an area's map. The quill-sitting mechanic I could do without and having to use a charm to know where you are was definitely very annoying at the start but later once I knew the maps it didn't make any difference.

Probably keeping conifer in but he sells you the whole map (minus secrets) would have been better.

DanB wrote:

I'm quite divided about the map. I quite liked having to find Conifer to get an area's map. The quill-sitting mechanic could do without and having to use a charm to know where you are was definitely very annoying at the start but later once I knew the maps it didn't make any difference.

Probably keeping conifer in but he sells you the whole map (minus secrets) would have been better.

I would maybe go with that, or letting the character auto-map things as he finds them, but could buy a completed map (minus secrets, as you say) from Conifer.

I was also surprised there wasn't an upgrade / item / charm that would expose breakable walls, false walls, and the like. Some of those hidden passages are pretty well obscured! The ones where there's no real visual indication of anything, but are simply hidden behind scenery were where I often would miss them (until going back later to find things).

I think removing the compass would have been better and have considered removing that charm.

Zelda stalled me so I'm stuck in terms of progress. However, is 100% an option or necessity? I can't see myself trying to 100% this game. I just don't do that often these days. I get what I can, but if I'm missing things then oh well.

I do get the sense that Team Cherry may have bitten off more than they could chew with promising more areas as stretch goals. Not so much in their ability to deliver, but whether a game of this genre should really be so long. Even where I'm at, which is probably not even halfway through, I'm feeling like the game would have done better condensing itself down. I just cannot see myself wanting to backtrack to old areas with new upgrades like I've done in Metroid games past.

ccesarano wrote:

Even where I'm at, which is probably not even halfway through, I'm feeling like the game would have done better condensing itself down. I just cannot see myself wanting to backtrack to old areas with new upgrades like I've done in Metroid games past.

Having got to the end I don't feel that there is too much content and certainly what content is there is not underdeveloped or lacking.

The problem for me is that the fast travel system isn't quite right (such as poor station placement) so back tracking is more tedious than it ought to be. Combine that with the very unstructured/unguided path through the game and you end up wandering around semi-lost, doing lots of backtracking, for a great deal of your first playthrough. Easily half of my play time was just futzing around trying to work out where to go. And that is not great.

If you could eliminate that the game would likely feel quite pace-y and tight and I'd guess a 2nd play through would take me about a quarter of the time

DanB wrote:
ccesarano wrote:

Even where I'm at, which is probably not even halfway through, I'm feeling like the game would have done better condensing itself down. I just cannot see myself wanting to backtrack to old areas with new upgrades like I've done in Metroid games past.

Having got to the end I don't feel that there is too much content and certainly what content is there is not underdeveloped or lacking.

The problem for me is that the fast travel system isn't quite right (such as poor station placement) so back tracking is more tedious than it ought to be. Combine that with the very unstructured/unguided path through the game and you end up wandering around semi-lost, doing lots of backtracking, for a great deal of your first playthrough. Easily half of my play time was just futzing around trying to work out where to go. And that is not great.

If you could eliminate that the game would likely feel quite pace-y and tight and I'd guess a 2nd play through would take me about a quarter of the time

Again, agree re: backtracking / re-exploring things to see where the next logical place to go is. Also, the "Wasn't there a in area X? I should go back and see if there's anything there," had me revisiting early spots a LOT. Constantly scrounging for upgrades and whatnot.

I'd still like health meters for bosses, at least. Maybe make it a gameplay option that can be toggled on/off for bosses and enemies? I also wanted an updash, or up boost, but it would trivialize a few sections.

I admit, i'm also partial to a leveling system (a la Symphony of the Night). If I am terrible, let me grind endlessly against things I can beat to improve my chances. It'll probably lock me out of speedrun achievements, and i'm ok with that.

This game isn't getting enough attention. I'm really hoping a major reviewer put it in the spotlight soon, because a game with this level of polish deserves to be known.

So, I can't beat the last thing. Every time I fight it, I get insane pauses and frame-rate hitches. Frontloading a ton of life, I was able to get to an 'intervention' point twice, but never much further (in either scenario).

These aren't like the occasional frame rate hitches I was seeing during the rest of the game. They're far more frequent (every 4-6 seconds, every time he hits me, nearly every time I dash, double jump, or if he uses a projectile ability). It prevents me from successfully dodging his attacks, not to mention actually managing to hit more than once or twice a pass.

Frustrating.

One time, while fighting the game dropped into .04 frames per second. I could hear sound effects, but action on screen was like someone was hitting frame advance every so often. I died after it seemingly resumed. Even more strange, it decided my shade was down in the elevator shaft leading to the City of Tears (according to the map)! It certainly wasn't in the room where it had been after the previous 37 failures.

I give up. I'll go play Zelda instead.

I started this recently and it's been a fun experience on PC with an XBONE controller. I've also had the stutter, but it hasn't been too much of an issue so far. It seems a bit like a less-cruel Salt & Sanctuary so far. Currently Hornet is whipping my behind, so I expect I am going to just put in the time to practice more with the combat.

Looking to get into this. It looks like what Megaman Zero should have become.

The new Hollow Knight content update is out! Hollow Knight Hidden Dreams was released yesterday with some new bosses and abilities!

The new ability, Dream Gates, lets you set teleport location with your dream nail which I've found really useful for tackling some of the late game content. I also managed to defeat one of the new bosses (I went ahead and looked up their locations).

I was sitting at 96% completion (missing colosseum of fools, a couple of nightmare bosses, etc) without any real motivation to get 100%, but this has gotten me to dive back in. Now I'm at 98% and I need to figure out those last few percentage points. I think that the new content would probably work better as a new runthrough since I wouldn't want to scour the entire map looking for new content. Will this get anyone else to revisit the game or start a new run? Hollow Knight is getting to be the same level of Shovel Knight in terms of being an embarrassment of riches. I've spent more time and had more fun with these two ~$10 games than a lot of AAA experiences.

I also believe that this game is on sale over the weekend on Steam for $9.

luckyshot wrote:

The new Hollow Knight content update is out! Hollow Knight Hidden Dreams was released yesterday with some new bosses and abilities!

The new ability, Dream Gates, lets you set teleport location with your dream nail which I've found really useful for tackling some of the late game content. I also managed to defeat one of the new bosses (I went ahead and looked up their locations).

I was sitting at 96% completion (missing colosseum of fools, a couple of nightmare bosses, etc) without any real motivation to get 100%, but this has gotten me to dive back in. Now I'm at 98% and I need to figure out those last few percentage points. I think that the new content would probably work better as a new runthrough since I wouldn't want to scour the entire map looking for new content. Will this get anyone else to revisit the game or start a new run? Hollow Knight is getting to be the same level of Shovel Knight in terms of being an embarrassment of riches. I've spent more time and had more fun with these two ~$10 games than a lot of AAA experiences.

It's on my list of things to do this weekend. I ran into a bit of a wall with the last boss (screen tearing, syncing, freezes, stuttering), and put the game down in frustration.

However, it's been a few months. There are some patches with fixes, and now this new content!

Anyone know when Hollow Knight is coming out for PS4?

Only a Switch port has been announced for consoles. I suspect we will see Xbox and PS eventually