Doctor Who *Spoilers Abound! We've lost Containment*

mrtomaytohead wrote:

Seeing Bill and Capaldi's Doctor go was the first time I've ever been happy to see a Doctor and/or companion go.

I don't get you.

gore wrote:

I'm starting to think of her as a bit of a "diversity hire."

Right? Diversity hires are the worst. I'm sick of this stunt casting. I sure as sh*t don't want to see anything like myself on TV, even for one season. Doctor Who is a white man's show.

ClockworkHouse wrote:
gore wrote:

I'm starting to think of her as a bit of a "diversity hire."

Right? Diversity hires are the worst. I'm sick of this stunt casting. I sure as sh*t don't want to see anything like myself on TV, even for one season. Doctor Who is a white man's show.

Well, maybe you're misunderstanding, or maybe I expressed myself poorly, but just to make sure: I think Bill is a little lazy as a character, since she seemed to be defined by her sexuality (and to a lesser degree skin color) in a season that was leaning heavily on critiquing modern culture.

I'm generally fine with this kind of moralizing from Who, it often has some kind of lesson to teach and the companions are often its vehicles. Given its wide audience age range it's not going to always be subtle.

What I'm disappointed in is the fact that Bill is leaving the show abruptly after swooping in to deliver the message, and that means we're not going to get to know her in any other capacity. It makes her seem a bit like a token.

Are you sure you're not projecting a little on the show? Admittedly, I'm a few episodes behind but I don't see it as being any more moralizing than any other season. I see Who as kind of a UK Star Trek starring someone that's above our petty and arbitrary squabbles.

It's easy to think that it's preaching given our current climate but nothing strikes me as out of the ordinary.

If she only lasts a season is Bill a token character? I guess that's up for you to decide. I found her an absolute delight and she's making this the best Capaldi year. That doesn't sound token to me. It's a shame if we only have her for a year.

To me, a token character would have their other-ness front and center, something that defines them. In Bill I see a pretty well-realized character living her life. She's not defined by her sexuality, she's living her life. She's not defined by her skin color, she just happens to be alive and brown (and the only time I recall this being mentioned is her being in Victorian London which, with our white-washed history, seems like a fair concern for her).

If you like MST3000 (or rather, Rifftrax) as well as Doctor Who, and you have theaters in your area that simulcast Fathom events, check this out.

IN THEATERS AUG 17, AUG 24

RiffTrax Live: Doctor Who
The Five Doctors

The Doctor is in the house! The RiffTrax house, that is! The stars of Mystery Science Theater 3000®, Mike Nelson, Kevin Murphy and Bill Corbett, are back on the big screen for a legendary riffing of the 1983 Doctor Who film "The Five Doctors." Someone is taking the Doctor's past selves out of time and space, placing them in a vast wilderness - a battle arena with a sinister tower at its center. As the various incarnations of the Doctor join forces, they learn they are in the Death Zone on their home world of Gallifrey, fighting Daleks, Cybermen, Yeti and a devious Time Lord Traitor who is using the Doctor and his companions to discover the ancient secrets of Rassilon, the first and most powerful ruler of Gallifrey.

Join Mike, Kevin and Bill as they join the Five Doctors for one of the most thrilling Doctor Who adventures ever!

A lot of the episodes featured the chatecters on "present day" earth. In reality the issues you are complaining about actually happen to real people like Bill on a daily basis.

So I dunno. Are you wanting Dr Who to has less realistic characterization?

So, Torchwood: Aleins Among Us Part 1 (AKA Torchwood Season 5, in audio drama format), recently came out via Big Finish. Highly recommended, true to form Torchwood here. The biggest thing that has me really anticipating the NEXT release (in October), is this little spoilery tidbit from the preview of Part 2:

Spoiler:

Man: Can I help you?
Rhys: Sorry mate, but you and me.. have we uh, have we met?
Man: I'm the caretaker. Bilis Manger, at your service.

Totally did not see that character coming back. One of the biggest loose ends from the original series that never got addressed (though I think the character did come into play in one of the novels).

Dr Who writer Gareth Roberts says a bunch of transphobic stuff on Twitter.

TW for the "T" word.

Looks like he's another one of those "Gay men who think Trans women are just in denial about being super-gay" that also (like his dr who contemporary, John Barrowman btw).

Happily he's not writing for the series right now.

Oh dear. That's disappointing. I've also seen a great deal of hate directed towards bi folks from some of the gay community. Wonder if its caused by a similar mind set?

Just found a Dr Who reference in Agents of Mayhem.

IMAGE(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/DxqyEgK4VBY/maxresdefault.jpg)

Which reminds me. Am I being dense or did Moffets cracks in the universe, Tardis exploding plot make no sense?

strangederby wrote:

Which reminds me. Am I being dense or did Moffets cracks in the universe, Tardis exploding plot make no sense?

Nope, not just you. It's kind of Moffat's thing.

In fact, it's a long (seriously - 1 hour 45min) watch but i'd recommend this...

Ignore the click-baitey title.
(technically it's mostly about Sherlock, but it's basically a critique of Moffat in general). The Dr Who stuff is mostly up front and a bit specifically about the crack in time stuff around 20minutes in.

strangederby wrote:

Oh dear. That's disappointing. I've also seen a great deal of hate directed towards bi folks from some of the gay community. Wonder if its caused by a similar mind set?

Bisexual invisibility and erasure is an ongoing issue. If you're bisexual and in a heterosexual relationship, you're seen as heterosexual; likewise, if you're bisexual and in a homosexual relationship, you're seen as homosexual. That can lead to a lot of people assuming that you're not actually bisexual but instead that you're actually gay and in denial about it, or you're actually straight and "going through a phase".

The trans issue that Roberts and Barrowman have is a little similar. To them, trans women (and, as ever, they ignore the sh*t out of trans men) are either drag queens who take their alternate persona way too seriously, or they're gay men who are so unwilling to accept their sexuality that they'd rather change their gender. Either way, to them, trans women are just gay men. That most (something like 80%) of trans women have female partners is lost on them or else brushed off.

It's garden variety prejudice, it's just coming from people who think that being a sexual minority makes them immune from being ignorant and bigoted about other people's gender and sexuality.

strangederby wrote:

Which reminds me. Am I being dense or did Moffets cracks in the universe, Tardis exploding plot make no sense?

It's a fine refrigerator story. It worked well enough at the time, and I thought the revelation of where and when the Silence arose was neat. It put a nice little bow on Matt Smith's run on the show, and I liked how it all came together in the end.

Besides, I'd rather have an endless succession of twisty, not-sure-they-work exploding TARDIS stories than unending seasons of Clara Clara Clara.

I have trouble focusing on plot when Karen Gillan is on the screen.

Quintin_Stone wrote:

I have trouble focusing on plot when Karen Gillan is on the screen.

That sentiment would explain the script behind Guardians of the Galaxy 2.

That WW2 story amd The girl in the fireplace were really good but since then Moffets writeing seems to have gone right down the pan.

strangederby wrote:

That WW2 story amd The girl in the fireplace were really good but since then Moffets writeing seems to have gone right down the pan.

The video I posted above posits that Moffat is excellent when he's limited to a one or two episode piece where he's effectively forced to tell a good story that works within a very limited time frame. PLus a set budget, with someone in place to be able to say "no" to him when required.

No series-long "mysteries" / unanswered questions / secret conspiracies.

As soon as he got complete control over the entire series with the ability to do whatever he wanted with a (relatively) unlimited budget and time? That's when he goes a bit...crap.

Plus, it turns of the producers he uses, who are normally supposed to reign his excesses in.... one is his mother in law, and I *think* the other is usually his wife? That might just have been on Sherlock and/or Jekyl though, I don't remember exactly which shows they were connected with.

pyxistyx wrote:

No series-long "mysteries" / unanswered questions / secret conspiracies.

But those are fun, especially if they never get explained.

Alz wrote:
Quintin_Stone wrote:

I have trouble focusing on plot when Karen Gillan is on the screen.

That sentiment would explain the script behind Guardians of the Galaxy 2.

Nah, there's two simple words to explain that: "fan service"

So, Torchwood: Aliens Among Us Part 2 just came out and I finished it just now... I am just flabbergasted, so many WTF moments in this new series...

Spoiler:

The return of Bilis Manger in this second part is great, and the completely unexplained return of Yvonne Hartman from Torchwood One being chief among them.

Companions (three) officially revealed. and it turns out that Bradley Walsh rumour wasn't a rumour :O

IMAGE(https://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/3ED2/production/_98428061_dworiginal.jpg)

Jodie Whittaker, who takes over as the 13th Doctor next year, will be joined by new cast regulars Bradley Walsh, Tosin Cole and Mandip Gill, as well as Sharon D Clarke in a returning role.
Walsh will star as Graham, Cole will play Ryan and Gill will play Yasmin.

New Doctor and three new companions? Sounds terrible. I hope I'm wrong, but I can't see how they can flesh out all these characters and do them justice in 40 minute episodes.

liquid wrote:

New Doctor and three new companions? Sounds terrible. I hope I'm wrong, but I can't see how they can flesh out all these characters and do them justice in 40 minute episodes.

Technically, the very first episode already had the Doctor and three companions. This doesn't have to be a bad thing.

The first, fourth and fifth doctors have all had 3 companions at one time or another. Plus there's short stint's like Rory, Amy and River , or Jack, Rose and Ricky...er...i mean Mickey.

I’m always interested when they break from the standard of one young female companion (which is not to say that some of those young females haven’t been wonderful).

Doctor Who's New Doctor Has a New Outfit
*I will withhold judgement but I am not liking it yet.

IMAGE(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DOMUOWAVoAArDoS.jpg)

Apart from the t-shirts echoes of Tom Baker's legendary scarf... Oh. Dear.

*Searches for facepalm gif*

I think it looks cool.