Fortnite

TL;DR: I don't think there's a pay-to-progress wall but I don't have lots of late-game experience.

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There are four neighborhoods (as I like to call them, for the lore). In increasing threat level:

  • Stonewood
  • Plankerton
  • Canny Valley
  • Twine Peaks

I've been into part of Canny Valley a couple of times (there were quite a few full and partial resets during the alpha) and prior to buying the Deluxe Pack for early access hadn't spent a dime. However, the resources that represent the harshest bottlenecks change over time as they balance, and right now as I understand it Pure Drops of Rain are very hard to find. You use them when you evolve (as opposed to level up) your stuff. I have heard that this has drastically slowed or stopped lots of folks' progression.

However I don't think it's a resource that you get in llamas. You can get it from the Collection Book as well as from completing missions and quests. At least in the early game. When there are husks with 100K+ HP (Twine Peaks) and you need 20K DPS to survive, you must evolve your weapons and heroes and survivors to get maximal buffs.

But when you evolve a weapon, you also change its key resource (my term). For instance, the schematics that you get from llamas will always or almost always be Copper, and require copper ore to craft. When you evolve a Copper weapon, it becomes a Silver weapon, and now requires silver ore. Similarly for Malachite, and there's a forth that's like Onyx or something. The ores can also be hard to find. In my play experience, Malachite was dreadfully rare, such that you had to be very choosy about which of your weapons you left at Silver (and thus weaker) and which you evolved to Malachite (and thus more powerful).

There again, you don't get those materials in llamas. You get it from finishing missions and quests sometimes, sometimes from chests and toolboxes, but primarily you find ores in caves in-world.

I asked around and was reminded that, at one point, you could receive Pure Drops of Rain from retiring/recycling heroes/schematics. In that sense, it could be logically inferred that the game was pay-to-progress. However, that's no longer the case. I'd be really curious to know where people are getting this impression, and may do some hunting on the Tubes of You.

Does that help anyone?

doubtingthomas396 wrote:
sortimat wrote:
IUMogg wrote:
doubtingthomas396 wrote:

Is there a way to go back and play old missions? I'd like to try and do better on some of them, now that I've learned some things about building and materials gathering.

Yes. I'm not sure about the shield base defense, but most of the others are replayable. At a certain point you should have access to the map with all the mission icons. I've run missions multiple times to gather resources, meet daily quest requirements, etc

yea thats how i farm resources, just go into an untimed mission (fight the storm or ride the lightning) that i completed previously. i usually jump out before the end but you could complete it if you wanted.

shield defense you can go in, but unless you're at that stage in the story, you can't play a mission, just build and store stuff.

Thanks,

I can access the map, but I don't seem to have access to old map points yet. It looks like I can only select the Next Mission.

I'm digging the game, but this user interface is just confusing.

You should be able to play old map points except for Outpost Shield Defense missions, and if you can't I'd submit a bug report. When I want to farm I will hit a low-threat untimed mission in Private mode and go to town. Note that even untimed missions will end. Ray will say there's a really big storm coming and that she's got to extract you at some point.

muraii wrote:
doubtingthomas396 wrote:
sortimat wrote:
IUMogg wrote:
doubtingthomas396 wrote:

Is there a way to go back and play old missions? I'd like to try and do better on some of them, now that I've learned some things about building and materials gathering.

Yes. I'm not sure about the shield base defense, but most of the others are replayable. At a certain point you should have access to the map with all the mission icons. I've run missions multiple times to gather resources, meet daily quest requirements, etc

yea thats how i farm resources, just go into an untimed mission (fight the storm or ride the lightning) that i completed previously. i usually jump out before the end but you could complete it if you wanted.

shield defense you can go in, but unless you're at that stage in the story, you can't play a mission, just build and store stuff.

Thanks,

I can access the map, but I don't seem to have access to old map points yet. It looks like I can only select the Next Mission.

I'm digging the game, but this user interface is just confusing.

You should be able to play old map points except for Outpost Shield Defense missions, and if you can't I'd submit a bug report. When I want to farm I will hit a low-threat untimed mission in Private mode and go to town. Note that even untimed missions will end. Ray will say there's a really big storm coming and that she's got to extract you at some point.

Do I have to hit a story point before that happens? I'm not entirely sure I'm out of the tutorial yet.

muraii wrote:

TL;DR: I don't think there's a pay-to-progress wall but I don't have lots of late-game experience.

---

There are four neighborhoods (as I like to call them, for the lore). In increasing threat level:

  • Stonewood
  • Plankerton
  • Canny Valley
  • Twine Peaks

I've been into part of Canny Valley a couple of times (there were quite a few full and partial resets during the alpha) and prior to buying the Deluxe Pack for early access hadn't spent a dime. However, the resources that represent the harshest bottlenecks change over time as they balance, and right now as I understand it Pure Drops of Rain are very hard to find. You use them when you evolve (as opposed to level up) your stuff. I have heard that this has drastically slowed or stopped lots of folks' progression.

However I don't think it's a resource that you get in llamas. You can get it from the Collection Book as well as from completing missions and quests. At least in the early game. When there are husks with 100K+ HP (Twine Peaks) and you need 20K DPS to survive, you must evolve your weapons and heroes and survivors to get maximal buffs.

But when you evolve a weapon, you also change its key resource (my term). For instance, the schematics that you get from llamas will always or almost always be Copper, and require copper ore to craft. When you evolve a Copper weapon, it becomes a Silver weapon, and now requires silver ore. Similarly for Malachite, and there's a forth that's like Onyx or something. The ores can also be hard to find. In my play experience, Malachite was dreadfully rare, such that you had to be very choosy about which of your weapons you left at Silver (and thus weaker) and which you evolved to Malachite (and thus more powerful).

There again, you don't get those materials in llamas. You get it from finishing missions and quests sometimes, sometimes from chests and toolboxes, but primarily you find ores in caves in-world.

I asked around and was reminded that, at one point, you could receive Pure Drops of Rain from retiring/recycling heroes/schematics. In that sense, it could be logically inferred that the game was pay-to-progress. However, that's no longer the case. I'd be really curious to know where people are getting this impression, and may do some hunting on the Tubes of You.

Does that help anyone?

Thank you for the information. Here is the seemingly reasonable post I read that concerned me.

Reddit post on P2Progress Concerns

muraii wrote:

However, the resources that represent the harshest bottlenecks change over time as they balance, and right now as I understand it Pure Drops of Rain are very hard to find. You use them when you evolve (as opposed to level up) your stuff. I have heard that this has drastically slowed or stopped lots of folks' progression.

However I don't think it's a resource that you get in llamas. You can get it from the Collection Book as well as from completing missions and quests. At least in the early game.

i'm pretty sure i've gotten a few pure drops from llamas, but very very rarely.

in my (limited) experience they seem to come from (most to least likely):
1 - quest reward
2 - limited time mission reward (not timed mission, the ones that are only available for a few hours a day)
3 - collection book
4 - treasure chests
5 - llamas

doubtingthomas396 wrote:
muraii wrote:
doubtingthomas396 wrote:
sortimat wrote:
IUMogg wrote:
doubtingthomas396 wrote:

Is there a way to go back and play old missions? I'd like to try and do better on some of them, now that I've learned some things about building and materials gathering.

Yes. I'm not sure about the shield base defense, but most of the others are replayable. At a certain point you should have access to the map with all the mission icons. I've run missions multiple times to gather resources, meet daily quest requirements, etc

yea thats how i farm resources, just go into an untimed mission (fight the storm or ride the lightning) that i completed previously. i usually jump out before the end but you could complete it if you wanted.

shield defense you can go in, but unless you're at that stage in the story, you can't play a mission, just build and store stuff.

Thanks,

I can access the map, but I don't seem to have access to old map points yet. It looks like I can only select the Next Mission.

I'm digging the game, but this user interface is just confusing.

You should be able to play old map points except for Outpost Shield Defense missions, and if you can't I'd submit a bug report. When I want to farm I will hit a low-threat untimed mission in Private mode and go to town. Note that even untimed missions will end. Ray will say there's a really big storm coming and that she's got to extract you at some point.

Do I have to hit a story point before that happens? I'm not entirely sure I'm out of the tutorial yet.

once you are able to see the icons on the map, you can select them and go. i don't remember the exact point, but it was pretty early in the game.

Another question: I see some people have Daily Challenges and such. Is that something that opens up later on or through the skill/research trees? I haven't seen them yet, but I just did my first Shield Defense.

Abu5217 wrote:

Another question: I see some people have Daily Challenges and such. Is that something that opens up later on or through the skill/research trees? I haven't seen them yet, but I just did my first Shield Defense.

I can't recall where they open up but I think it's after another tutorial mission or two.

K, thanks.

Rybowl wrote:
muraii wrote:

TL;DR: I don't think there's a pay-to-progress wall but I don't have lots of late-game experience.

---

There are four neighborhoods (as I like to call them, for the lore). In increasing threat level:

  • Stonewood
  • Plankerton
  • Canny Valley
  • Twine Peaks

I've been into part of Canny Valley a couple of times (there were quite a few full and partial resets during the alpha) and prior to buying the Deluxe Pack for early access hadn't spent a dime. However, the resources that represent the harshest bottlenecks change over time as they balance, and right now as I understand it Pure Drops of Rain are very hard to find. You use them when you evolve (as opposed to level up) your stuff. I have heard that this has drastically slowed or stopped lots of folks' progression.

However I don't think it's a resource that you get in llamas. You can get it from the Collection Book as well as from completing missions and quests. At least in the early game. When there are husks with 100K+ HP (Twine Peaks) and you need 20K DPS to survive, you must evolve your weapons and heroes and survivors to get maximal buffs.

But when you evolve a weapon, you also change its key resource (my term). For instance, the schematics that you get from llamas will always or almost always be Copper, and require copper ore to craft. When you evolve a Copper weapon, it becomes a Silver weapon, and now requires silver ore. Similarly for Malachite, and there's a forth that's like Onyx or something. The ores can also be hard to find. In my play experience, Malachite was dreadfully rare, such that you had to be very choosy about which of your weapons you left at Silver (and thus weaker) and which you evolved to Malachite (and thus more powerful).

There again, you don't get those materials in llamas. You get it from finishing missions and quests sometimes, sometimes from chests and toolboxes, but primarily you find ores in caves in-world.

I asked around and was reminded that, at one point, you could receive Pure Drops of Rain from retiring/recycling heroes/schematics. In that sense, it could be logically inferred that the game was pay-to-progress. However, that's no longer the case. I'd be really curious to know where people are getting this impression, and may do some hunting on the Tubes of You.

Does that help anyone?

Thank you for the information. Here is the seemingly reasonable post I read that concerned me.

Reddit post on P2Progress Concerns

Thanks! I read through the main OP and many responses and initially wanted to split hairs. It's not productive, though, and there are some mechanics that will make people feel like it's pay-to-progress. There are definitely known and acknowledged issues about progression being bottlenecked. One thing that may factor into that that I hadn't really thought about in this context is dying.

When you die, your equipped weapons take damage. I think it used to be that they'd take damage unless someone revived you, but even if so, that's in the past. As threat levels increase, you will likely die more, and you _also_ will need rarer and potentially more materials and resources. Reductively it could become a vicious cycle. I personally haven't witnessed that, but I have to imagine some have.

My hope is that Epic works these things out. They've acknowledged that there are serious issues with the UX, with the systems complexity, with the balancing.

Abu5217 wrote:

Another question: I see some people have Daily Challenges and such. Is that something that opens up later on or through the skill/research trees? I haven't seen them yet, but I just did my first Shield Defense.

I'm not sure when that unlocks, but I can confirm that I have daily quests.

--- --- ---

I don't think I'm too far into the game. As such, I feel like I should give some tips for people who are just jumping in.

- I think that the best advice I can give is to just keep playing. Much of the progression is done through the skill trees. Playing and replaying missions will give you those skill points.

- You need 'nuts and bolts' to craft ammo, and other important items. It has been pointed out that you can get them from busting up cars, but I find more of them from things that can be 'searched'. When you are in the urban areas, look for boxes, trash cans, suitcases, small coffee cans, etc. I find these to be more efficient, as sometimes you just find ammo, which is probably why you need nuts n bolts in the first place.

- Explore the menus. It's tedious because the UI is a mess, but it can help you get familiar with the multitude of system.

- Just keep playing. I know I already said that. They show you systems of the game that you won't be able to use right away. If you keep progressing your skill tree, they will open up.

And team up!

muraii wrote:

Lots of good stuff.

Thank you very much for your comments. Never guarantees, but it helps to get a sense of the progression a bit more.

Is there an effective way to farm trap schematics? Or is it totally random?

RawkGWJ wrote:

Is there an effective way to farm trap schematics? Or is it totally random?

It's entirely random, with one possible limited exception: Transformation. Eventually I think a player will be able to transform heroes and schematics into trap schematics (and heroes and weapon schematics, etc.) of specific designs. This will require unlocking "Transform" in the skill tree (just above midline in the first skill tree, toward the far right) and then also getting the appropriate Transform token. I'm still experimenting/tinkering a (very) little bit.

Rybowl wrote:
muraii wrote:

Lots of good stuff.

Thank you very much for your comments. Never guarantees, but it helps to get a sense of the progression a bit more.

+1 Very appreciated. <3

Was super tired today but hopped on when I saw an invite from Taharka. Ran a couple of missions, then said, "Well, time for bed!"

Played with my schematics for another hour or something.

I have my Stonewood OD5 ready to go and would love to hop on Friday evening with whomever.

sortimat wrote:
muraii wrote:

However, the resources that represent the harshest bottlenecks change over time as they balance, and right now as I understand it Pure Drops of Rain are very hard to find. You use them when you evolve (as opposed to level up) your stuff. I have heard that this has drastically slowed or stopped lots of folks' progression.

However I don't think it's a resource that you get in llamas. You can get it from the Collection Book as well as from completing missions and quests. At least in the early game.

i'm pretty sure i've gotten a few pure drops from llamas, but very very rarely.

in my (limited) experience they seem to come from (most to least likely):
1 - quest reward
2 - limited time mission reward (not timed mission, the ones that are only available for a few hours a day)
3 - collection book
4 - treasure chests
5 - llamas

Got some Pure Drops of Rain from mini llamas today, so you're absolutely right.

Has epic stated if there will be wipes or does everything carry on into the eventual "free to play" roll out next year.

Note I choose to believe that if there are wipes epic will reset all the purchased things, as in they will be refunded or you will get the rewards again.

If they reset, I will probably stop playing. Just the effort required to get to where I am, which isn't far, is excessive. After a year's worth of play, not worth picking it back up.

If they wipe I may come back, but only if my wife and kids are interested in playing with me.

I don't think Epic has stated anything definitive. Whenever they have wiped they've always refunded anything that was purchased, so in the case of Founders Packs it would reset to when you started the game as well as any money you've put in since (as well as money you put into the alpha).

In some cases a reset also credited back skill points and (IIRC) research points, which would allow you to get partially back to your current state. In one memorable case, they refunded all materials used in your Outpost defenses. That was only because they'd refactored how Outposts worked, so that's unlikely to happen again. It was really something to have a credit on the order of 20,000 units of wood, stone, and metal just sitting in the Outpost inventory.

Garrcia wrote:

Has epic stated if there will be wipes or does everything carry on into the eventual "free to play" roll out next year.

Note I choose to believe that if there are wipes epic will reset all the purchased things, as in they will be refunded or you will get the rewards again.

There are no plans to wipe. The bolded part is correct though, were it to happen. People who purchased vbucks during the alpha not only got their vbucks back but also got a 30% bonus on top.

Oh I never knew about the bonus. I left money on the proverbial table that I probably broke to get wood!

This just in: look forward to 15 free llamas labelled "Believer's Gift". I was dumbfounded. I got a lot of cool stuff out of it, including enough Founders Coins to get two Founders Llamas. Then I slotted lots of things in the Collection Book and got yet other stuff. I got the sword I've been waiting for in the balance.

Someone in the in-game Global Chat suggested this was a response to the recent Reddit post (the one Rybowl posted upthread) and maybe even the Polygon article by Charlie Hall. It might be, I don't know, but it was pretty nice either way. I'm so glad it's not an alpha-only thing, which was a worry for me (of course only after blathering on about all my cool loot; I am good at peopling).

If this is a response to those call-outs, I'm okay with that. What little I know about the Epic team convinces me to take their claims at face value, that they really want to make a great game that people can enjoy without it being burdensome.

Now go play with your new goodies!

"State of Game: Progression", by Zak Phelps and Darren Sugg.

[R]emember that whole thing about helping us with Early Access? Well, here you are, and we want to make the game better. Already our servers are gathering data on your play patterns and we are making sure we are always listening to what's going on out in the wild. One of the things we need help with, is our advancement and loot rates. There isn't a secret cabal of llama hating Illuminati out there who are trying to "trick" you into spending money on the game once you've played it for fifty hours. What there is however is a big RPG with lots of ins/outs.
muraii wrote:

This just in: look forward to 15 free llamas labelled "Believer's Gift". I was dumbfounded. I got a lot of cool stuff out of it, including enough Founders Coins to get two Founders Llamas. Then I slotted lots of things in the Collection Book and got yet other stuff. I got the sword I've been waiting for in the balance.

I meant to mention, I had saved up enough V-bucks from dailies to buy the Super Ranged Llama the other day. It included 100 Founders Coins, which was enough to immediately get a Founders Llama as well.

deftly wrote:
muraii wrote:

This just in: look forward to 15 free llamas labelled "Believer's Gift". I was dumbfounded. I got a lot of cool stuff out of it, including enough Founders Coins to get two Founders Llamas. Then I slotted lots of things in the Collection Book and got yet other stuff. I got the sword I've been waiting for in the balance.

I meant to mention, I had saved up enough V-bucks from dailies to buy the Super Ranged Llama the other day. It included 100 Founders Coins, which was enough to immediately get a Founders Llama as well.

This right here, more than anything else, is pushing me really close to pulling the trigger on buying this. That kind of dev response earns my money.

UMOarsman wrote:
deftly wrote:
muraii wrote:

This just in: look forward to 15 free llamas labelled "Believer's Gift". I was dumbfounded. I got a lot of cool stuff out of it, including enough Founders Coins to get two Founders Llamas. Then I slotted lots of things in the Collection Book and got yet other stuff. I got the sword I've been waiting for in the balance.

I meant to mention, I had saved up enough V-bucks from dailies to buy the Super Ranged Llama the other day. It included 100 Founders Coins, which was enough to immediately get a Founders Llama as well.

This right here, more than anything else, is pushing me really close to pulling the trigger on buying this. That kind of dev response earns my money.

deftly, I'm holding on to mine hoping for a Troll Llama of some variety, but I'm kinda jealous. Which is ridiculous because I just got these 15 llamas.

UMOarsman, I feel the same way.

My crafting materials are clogging up my inventory.

Is there a way to store and save excess crafting materials? Like at your home base? Or are my only choices to use them or trash them?

I hate inventory management.