Hollow Knight

I haven't even found the first!

I'm fighting the urge to re-explore Forgotten Crossroads and Fungal Forest or whatever again, now that I got a simple key and lantern (already unlocked the cavern in Dirtmouth, and explored to the left of the village). Hopefully the lantern means visibility will be improved in the Deep Nests, which thus far have been the most difficult place I've been in.

Spoiler:

I got myself the Tram Pass, though, so I probably just unlocked a bunch of the world. Unless they have two separate forms of quick travel, which would be neat.

Dammit why am I still at work aaargh

ccesarano wrote:
Spoiler:

Unless they have two separate forms of quick travel, which would be neat.

Spoiler:

they do but they kind of go different places. Did you find getting the tram pass was particularly tricky?

Spoiler:

I forget how I died while almost at the tram pass, but I really hate those grub worms. If you strike them too early they don't flinch way, and thus before you can pull off a second attack they walk right into you and cause damage. They can swarm you pretty quickly. I was also in a rush that night as I was staying up past my bed time. So I died right before I got the tram pass, tried to speed through to my soul to reclaim it only to have to fend off a crap ton of larva and like four of those flying guys, only to die again at the mid-point because there must have been a crap ton of larva off-screen that killed my framerate.

So it was certainly a bit of a pickle.

Honestly, though, I'm probably better mentally prepared for that zone than when I first went in there, so it's my next target regardless.

Spoiler:

that was almost exactly like my experience, including being up past my bed time!

I seem to have hit quite a wall. I feel fairly underpowered for most of the boss fights I can now find and I can't really find anywhere else to go.

DanB wrote:

I seem to have hit quite a wall. I feel fairly underpowered for most of the boss fights I can now find and I can't really find anywhere else to go.

I understand completely. I kind of wish there were some additional options for gameplay... like health bars for bosses and whatnot. It'd also be nice if there was a "sacrifice all money to return to last save spot" item. Sometimes, you just don't want to backtrack.

Also, the death mechanic + distance from boss rooms can get rather frustrating. Not only do you have to defeat your shade, but then you need to pop back out and fill soul (since it's capped lower while the shade exists). Add to that the length of time (or challenges to negotiate) between the closest bench and a boss... and well, that's a recipe for annoyance. I think I'd prefer that boss deaths respawned you at the closest transition entrance to the screen area where they reside.

The discussion here makes me think this game is a lot deeper than it appears...

Tyrian wrote:

Add to that the length of time (or challenges to negotiate) between the closest bench and a boss... and well, that's a recipe for annoyance. I think I'd prefer that boss deaths respawned you at the closest transition entrance to the screen area where they reside.

I haven't fought all the bosses yet, but I've yet to encounter one that hasn't let me make a corpse run in under two or three minutes. I generally like this style of design for a couple reasons: 1.) It gives me time to cool down, rethink my strategy. 2.) It provides another challenge to overcome. Optimally navigating the path to a boss without killing any enemies (or killing as few as possible) is somewhat similar to the way speedrunning is satisfying.

I also haven't gotten stuck on a boss for too long, so maybe I'll be given a reason to change my tune.

cls33: I wasn't expecting this level of depth and breadth at all. It's practically cavernous. Goofs aside, it's astounding they managed all this on a Kickstarter that only brought them 60k AUD.

I'm really liking this game, if that wasn't clear.

I have no problem with corpse runs per se I just find some of them in this game are a just far enough to be annoying

wrt breadth/depth: I double checked the kickstarter page not only did they only raise 60K AUD but it's clear that the released games contains the stretch goals from the additional higher tiers that didn't actually get funded (i.e. the Arena). It looks like they ditched their plans to have alternate player characters though, which I guess is probably for the best from a story consistency POV.

DanB wrote:

I seem to have hit quite a wall. I feel fairly underpowered for most of the boss fights I can now find and I can't really find anywhere else to go.

The game is pretty non-linear but there are a few points where it's hard to figure out what to do next.

If you brows the map from your inventory you can get a really good overview of the paths that you havent taken. Except for the ones you dont have a map.

Spoiler:

The main one for me was going back to crystal peak and getting traversal ability there. After that the game opened up some more.

Tyops wrote:
Spoiler:

The main one for me was going back to crystal peak and getting traversal ability there. After that the game opened up some more.

Spoiler:

I had got that ability but hadn't realised something important about it. Also I found a couple of easy bosses I had managed to miss that gave me at least one other traversal ability I was missing and things have really opened up.

Also found the 3rd ore and got the upgrade only to discover there are another 3 to find!

Hmm... some parts of the late game have nearly squandered all the goodwill I had for this.

Spoiler:

White Palace is garbage and I hated every minute of it.

Some miscellaneous tips (nothing specific, but spoiler tags just in case):

Spoiler:

1. I generally prefer using buttons over triggers, unless it's an FPS, so I moved the dash from R2/RT to R1/RB. Much more comfortable for me, at least on the DS4.

2. The right analog stick will instantly move the camera up or down, skipping the forced delay if you hold up or down on the d-pad/left analog stick. Probably shouldn't have taken 14 hours for me to try that.

3. I think it's been mentioned upthread, but it bears repeating: Deepnest is not *great*. The biggest problem with it is that you can get there super early and there's very little reason for it. Exploring is fun and all, but you'll be charged to go there later, when you're far more equipped to handle the area, so consider doing a 180 when the name pops up on your screen. You will know when the time to return comes.

4. As is true for most games like this, NPCs are worth revisiting. Some more than others. More to say, more to do.

5. Everything in the game has an audio cue. One of the most crucial of which is from Cornifer, the venerable cartographer. His noise doesn't travel extremely far, but it's not an insignificant radius. Keep an ear out for it. You'll want those maps.

The game seems like fun but I think I would get board saying hello knight every time I played the game. I guess it is the polite thing to do.

Tyops wrote:

Hmm... some parts of the late game have nearly squandered all the goodwill I had for this.

Spoiler:

White Palace is garbage and I hated every minute of it.

I find the platforming super fun, so I thought that part was great. Even if I'd had problems, it is ultimately optional. If anyone else hits a wall with the place we're talking about, I recommend finding the Hiveblood charm first.

I'm close to finishing the game, and it's been fantastic throughout, with very few blemishes.

Hyetal wrote:
Tyops wrote:

Hmm... some parts of the late game have nearly squandered all the goodwill I had for this.

Spoiler:

White Palace is garbage and I hated every minute of it.

I find the platforming super fun, so I thought that part was great. Even if I'd had problems, it is ultimately optional. If anyone else hits a wall with the place we're talking about, I recommend finding the Hiveblood charm first.

I'm close to finishing the game, and it's been fantastic throughout, with very few blemishes.

Yes... I got through it using Hiveblood. The problem with this section is that it's so far disconnected from the rest of the game. I did all the other platforming relatively trouble-free but the spike in difficulty between the hardest platforming before and this is quite huge. It didnt feel (for me) like the controls supported the precision required for platforming at that level. Of course there are people on youtube that just do it all in one go.

For me at that point the game had flipped from a challenging metroidvania to a bad super meatboy and I wasnt on board for that. I made it to the "true" last boss after that and didn't care, youtubed the ending(s) and uninstalled it. It was a gem of a game that just fell on its face at he end (for me).

Tyops wrote:

Yes... I got through it using Hiveblood. The problem with this section is that it's so far disconnected from the rest of the game. I did all the other platforming relatively trouble-free but the spike in difficulty between the hardest platforming before and this is quite huge. It didnt feel (for me) like the controls supported the precision required for platforming at that level. Of course there are people on youtube that just do it all in one go.

I just ran through The White Palace and I found that the controls were more than good enough for the precision platforming that was called for.

That said, I'm fairly divided by The White Palace. On one hand I do really like the change of pace and it is cool that the game features so much variety. On the other hand I really hate when games have sudden huge steps up in difficulty or out of nowhere they ask you to complete some task that the game hasn't ever previously required you practice. Most of the level traversal isn't taxing and isn't really preparing you. So The White Palace is both something you've not had to practice and a sudden huge step up in difficulty.

I got through it and it didn't take me too long but only because I am exceptionally well practiced on things like Super Meat Boy. Even so, the last trickiest section just dragged on and I was more than ready for it to be over when it was done.

I'm now closing in on obtaining all the pick ups which also means I'm down to the grindiest bits of the late game. And they've been a bit of a mixed bag. The Dream Bosses have been great and have really scratched the Dark Souls itch, Lost Kin is an especially great fight. The Delicate Flower quest however was nothing other than utterly tedious and frustrating. The arena is also something that divides me, again I like that it is there from a variety POV but actually completing it is something of a chore; each attempt takes the best part of 10mins and if you fail you have to repeat exactly the sequence of things you've just done.

The thing this reminds me of the most is Deus EX Human Rev. It's like they outsourced the end to a different studio. More likely they ran out to time and had to push some hard bits out the door.

Tyops wrote:

More likely they ran out to time and had to push some hard bits out the door.

This seems like the most likely explanation. Looking around on the internet a number of things were dropped so they could release when they did. And it is clear that there are locations that were meant to be boss fights but aren't, like the centre of the Hive.

Some of the dropped things are apparently going to be pushed out in a future release/patch such as OSX support. And other bits are going to be paid DLC such as the other playable characters and some new areas (if you were a KS backer you'll get this free)

If you're a terrible completionist like me here is a handy 100% completion guide (spoilers obvs):

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...

Lots of progress! Still enjoying it a lot, though I have a lot of trouble with 'tricky' platforming areas. Spikes on top of columns? WHYYYYYYYYYYYYyyyyyyyyyyyy....... *ahem*

Just now entering a particular garden area and wandering through. I opened the stag way station there and stopped for the night, but didn't want to (that's how I know it totally has its hooks in me). As a fellow completionist, I'll likely give the guide a look-see. However, I'm also lazy (a terrible combination), and thus will likely never get all the achievements.

Oh yeah make no mistake, my criticism should be taken lightly as I'm still very delighted and absorbed by the game.

DanB wrote:

Oh yeah make no mistake, my criticism should be taken lightly as I'm still very delighted and absorbed by the game.

Same... I enjoyed my time with this thoroughly (until the last bits).

Perhaps I spoke too soon. The White Palace may not have eroded my good will but god damn the Trial of Fools is testing my patience

The White Palace and the Trial of Fools feel like two sides of the same coin. Both are probably meant to be left for last, before you fight the final boss, and they're definitely the ultimate test of your skills. Easier to cheese TWP, though.

Tyrian wrote:

Lots of progress! Still enjoying it a lot, though I have a lot of trouble with 'tricky' platforming areas. Spikes on top of columns? WHYYYYYYYYYYYYyyyyyyyyyyyy....... *ahem*

It's not exactly easy, but in case you're not aware, it might be useful to know that you can downward slash yourself off of spikes, just like enemies. (Doesn't apply to vines, unfortunately.)

Hyetal wrote:

It's not exactly easy, but in case you're not aware, it might be useful to know that you can downward slash yourself off of spikes, just like enemies. (Doesn't apply to vines, unfortunately.)

f*cking game changer, that.

When I'm done with Zelda and get back to this I'll have to give that a try.

Hyetal wrote:

Both are probably meant to be left for last, before you fight the final boss,

Well yeah, I'm literally doing the final arena challenge prior to the end game.

My problem with the final arena challenge is that I have the first 80% of it down and then it takes a sudden leap up in difficulty. So each attempt is 6-7mins of trivial stuff followed by a portion that nearly immediately kills me so any incremental progress requires 6-7mins of tedious repetition.

I have no issue with that portion of the challenge being as hard, just don't make me repeat an increasingly boring portion of the game to attempt it. It would be better if there were 6 challenges covering the same content but each half as long. That way I could effectively jump straight in to the latter portion of the final challenge. It'll still be just as hard it won't sap my will to live.

Compared to The White Palace, there if you take a hit it just resets you to a nearby platform so you're seldom asked to repeat too many jumps. It can get frustrating but you're not being asked to repeat portions you've already solved.

Good points, well made. What part is tripping you up? If it's the boss fight, I'll tell you the charm that lowers the cost of spells helped me. Anything that lets you hit more than one enemy at a time, and maybe gives you the ability to keep your distance.

If it's not the boss fight... I used the Great Slash as often as possible. A fully upgraded Great Slash will instantly kill many of the more annoying enemies (flying scythe-slingin' mantis, for one), and leave others one attack removed.

It is the portion where you have to stick to the walls and not touch the floor. I'm gradually getting the hang of it but there's really nowhere previously in the game where you've been required to practice that skill.

Great Slash is definitely useful for those assholes. Keeping it loaded and dropping the first/closest enemy that spawns keeps things more manageable. And bouncing off the hardier enemies will often render them completely harmless. That is probably the most challenging part, so I'm sure you'll be fine once you get it.