GWJ Conference Call Episode 541

Nioh, Sniper Elite 4, Little Topics - Including Podcaster Fist Fights, Your Emails and More!

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This week Shawn, Cory and Elysium talk about games you avoid playing, outmoded game mechanics and who would win in a podcaster fist fight?

To contact us, email [email protected]! Send us your thoughts on the show, pressing issues you want to talk about or whatever else is on your mind.

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Show credits

Music credits: 

Only Knows - Broke for Free - http://brokeforfree.com/ - 26:01

The Collector - Broke for Free - http://brokeforfree.com/ - 48:47

Comments

Ddon't sweat the age.

I'm 60+ And have just bought Sniper Elite 4. (PC) Looking forward to the Ghost Recon Wildlands Beta (PC) and have FFXV on my PS4 but I need time to start it. My Vita is currently sporting Dragon Quest Builder and my 3DS still has Fire Emblem awakening on it. My 360 is neglected and after the launch debacle I stayed away from the Xbone.

I would love a VR set but as a pensioner then that's got to wait for a price drop although I do use tracking hardware for my Elite Dangerous play.

I hate platforming games because while I can hold my own in an FPS I can't judge a jump to save my toons life and was frustrated with GW2 bringing in so many jumping puzzles

Hmm, what age would you have pegged me at if I had not stated it upfront?

It's only 'Game Over Man' when that Alien has you bang to rights. My family and friends all know I love my games and the only time they complained was when I fell in love with WoW and wouldn't shut up about it.

00:02:19 Sniper Elite 4
00:15:03 Nioh
00:27:57 Random Topics
00:48:48 Your Emails

Regarding suppressed bullets, let me put on my shooting cap and point out that they do make sub-sonic bullets. A not inconsiderable amount of the noise from firing a bullet is from the bullet breaking the sound barrier and making a sonic boom. If you've ever been on a rifle range, this phenomenon is very familiar, as you'll notice that the person next to you seems to make a lot more noise when they shoot than you do. This is because you're behind your bullet as it breaks the sound barrier, but you're next to your neighbor's bullet as it leaves the barrel.

Sub-sonic bullets are slower, below the speed of sound, and therefore don't travel as far as normal ones, hence the increased amount of drop in Sniper Elite 4 when using suppressed bullets. They're generally used in places where loud shots would frighten wildlife, such as warding predators away from herd animals or when hunting.

So it's not actually video-game jiggery-pokery to have "suppressed bullets." The only thing I don't know is when they were first developed. All the patents I can find relating to subsonic ammunition are dated in the early 2000s, but that doesn't mean some enterprising sniper in the early 1940s didn't come up with the idea while loading his own.

I'm sincerely curious what changed in Sean that he managed to complete Chrono Trigger. I mean, in some ways I get it. The combat requires more effort on the player's part than Final Fantasy in its use of magic and techs. The setting is sci-fi and fantasy without bringing in crazy Japanese character designs like over-sexualized elementary school students or animal mascots with a really annoying speech pattern.

But I feel like Sean would have said "I'm done, that's okay, I've had my fill" when the talking frog shows up speaking Ye Olde English at the Church filled with Snake Nuns.

So Corey accidentally beat Mankind Divided almost like I did.

I was very surprised by the conversation about Nioh today. Without criticizing you guys for your reactions, I'd just say that I found the complaints hard to understand.

You said that there was no connection between the boss and the level, and that the bosses didn't have any character. The boss of the second main area in the Chugoku region that Shawn was stuck on is a water boss in a water level (a drowned palace, I think). Furthmore, the boss is based directly on an actual mythological creature from Japanese folklore, the Umibozu:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umibozu

The attention to the details of the legendary beast is remarkable. Look up images online of how this demon was imagined and you'll see! And the connection to the level, which involved wading through sunken hallways and fighting multiple miniature versions of the boss before reaching the main final conflict, is exciting.

Likewise the "vampire" boss that Shawn mentioned, Hino Enma, is taken from Japanese folklore, where she is described as a beautiful woman that lures men into caves. The caves are thus a historically significant context for the boss.

The characters in this game likewise are accurate to history, minus the supernatural themes.

Don't get me wrong, the Souls games and Bloodborne are my favorite games ever, but I'm absolutely loving Nioh for all that it does that is new and different. I think there is a lot more to the game than you are giving it credit for.

And Corey, I bounced off of that Warrior of the West duel sub-mission as well. I'm just going to come back later when I'm stronger. It's optional.

Thanks GWJ crew,

Caspar

The last console I rented (or my parents rented for me) was the Virtual Boy. Which is definitely the right way to experience the Virtual Boy.

Rat Boy wrote:

So Corey accidentally beat Mankind Divided almost like I did.

I normally try to not take offense when people put an E in my name, but I feel like Rat Boy's doing it on purpose here because I registered on the site before him.

IMAGE(https://m.popkey.co/9352ae/MMm5K.gif)

casparnic wrote:

I was very surprised by the conversation about Nioh today. Without criticizing you guys for your reactions, I'd just say that I found the complaints hard to understand.

You said that there was no connection between the boss and the level, and that the bosses didn't have any character. The boss of the second main area in the Chugoku region that Shawn was stuck on is a water boss in a water level (a drowned palace, I think). Furthmore, the boss is based directly on an actual mythological creature from Japanese folklore, the Umibozu:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umibozu

The attention to the details of the legendary beast is remarkable. Look up images online of how this demon was imagined and you'll see! And the connection to the level, which involved wading through sunken hallways and fighting multiple miniature versions of the boss before reaching the main final conflict, is exciting.

Likewise the "vampire" boss that Shawn mentioned, Hino Enma, is taken from Japanese folklore, where she is described as a beautiful woman that lures men into caves. The caves are thus a historically significant context for the boss.

The characters in this game likewise are accurate to history, minus the supernatural themes.

Don't get me wrong, the Souls games and Bloodborne are my favorite games ever, but I'm absolutely loving Nioh for all that it does that is new and different. I think there is a lot more to the game than you are giving it credit for.

And Corey, I bounced off of that Warrior of the West duel sub-mission as well. I'm just going to come back later when I'm stronger. It's optional.

Thanks GWJ crew,

Caspar

Yeah, that makes sense. If you know about all of this history, having the game tie into it is awesome.

I'm willing to bet that a large part of the game's audience don't know enough about Japanese folklore to get the connection. I don't, and I consider myself a person who really digs a historical Japan setting. So I'd argue that, without that background knowledge, the connection is lost on a lay person like me. For me, that's a miss.

I didn't require any background knowledge to discover and enjoy the world of Dark Souls, Lordran. In fact, one of my favorite experiences playing Dark Souls was learning more about the world and what happened, based solely on the breadcrumbs provided. I'm not getting that from Nioh, and that (along with the inventory issues) contributed to me losing interest.

I can't speak for Shawn, but I think I gave the game a *lot* of credit. Nioh does super interesting things with combat and combos, even if I think the layers of game mechanics get in the way of some of the more pure elements. Just because I bounced off doesn't mean it's a bad game -- you're digging it, and so are tons of other people. I'm just not enthralled with it now, and have decided to restart my life as a farmer in Stardew Valley, so...

Playing Nioh has been a highlight of an otherwise typically depressing February (oh when oh when will spring come?). However, the game has some awful difficulty spikes, two of which Cory and Shawn ran up against. After I got far enough into the game, I was able to acquire more tools which made the game a lot easier for me. Some of the later level design is really great, and while I don't partially like boss fights, they have looked very impressive.

I have engaged in jolly coop, which by default sends you to any mission that you have completed. The mission I have seen most often has been the one Shawn was stuck on, and the second most frequent one was an earlier mission that has a similar difficulty spike. Even being overpowered, I can still die due to general incompetence and the fact that enemies hit like a truck.

I can totally see people getting frustrated with Nioh. Lords of the Fallen was another Souls-like that I bounced off of a few years ago. I'm glad more developers are playing with the formula, and I'm looking forward to more innovation.

Aristophan wrote:

I'm glad more developers are playing with the formula, and I'm looking forward to more innovation.

QFT. This 100 times. I want more people to play with these ideas, in the same way that games like Dark Souls played with permadeath, roguelike mechanics, and open world level design.

Demiurge wrote:
Rat Boy wrote:

So Corey accidentally beat Mankind Divided almost like I did.

I normally try to not take offense when people put an E in my name, but I feel like Rat Boy's doing it on purpose here because I registered on the site before him.

IMAGE(https://m.popkey.co/9352ae/MMm5K.gif)

No, accidental misspelling. And here's how the boss battle ended for me in case anyone was curious...

Spoiler:

...I got to the point where I got so frustrated I ended up firing everything I had at him and flinging every grenade I could. Either I chucked a gas grenade or accidentally set off a gas mine, because suddenly I was credited with knocking him unconscious. Of all the augs that guy had, he didn't have one to protect hime from that.

My twitter question was read out, w00t! thanks, panel.

MP for Sniper Elite 4 has a small population. It's not your typical shooter. Like i've mentioned in the game's thread. You have 5-10 people in a zone (which are huge) sneaking about and trying hard not to be seen. You're using the sound of other people's gun fire to move about to get your shot in. So you tend to end up having the top scorer in the 5-10 range after the 20 minute time limit ends.

Re: Realistic Sword Fighting Game:

Chivalry: Medieval Warfare?

ReleaseTheEvil wrote:

Re: Realistic Sword Fighting Game:

Chivalry: Medieval Warfare?

For Honor is the next step beyond that. Neither have a round robin dueling lobby like JK did.

For Honor is supposed to have Rank play at some point so it could show up then.

ranalin wrote:
ReleaseTheEvil wrote:

Re: Realistic Sword Fighting Game:

Chivalry: Medieval Warfare?

For Honor is the next step beyond that. Neither have a round robin dueling lobby like JK did.

For Honor is supposed to have Rank play at some point so it could show up then.

Next step as in you feel it does a better job of it? Didn't get a chance to try the game during Beta so just curious.

ReleaseTheEvil wrote:
ranalin wrote:
ReleaseTheEvil wrote:

Re: Realistic Sword Fighting Game:

Chivalry: Medieval Warfare?

For Honor is the next step beyond that. Neither have a round robin dueling lobby like JK did.

For Honor is supposed to have Rank play at some point so it could show up then.

Next step as in you feel it does a better job of it? Didn't get a chance to try the game during Beta so just curious.

Graphically and technically better. Check out our thread on the game here:

https://www.gamerswithjobs.com/node/...

"Who'd win in a fist fight?"

Really? Are you going to play "Marry, Boff, Kill" on the next show?

Spoiler:

The Game King, clearly, wins the fist fight. All it needs is for him to picture the rest of the crew as controllers, THEN BREAK THEM WITH HIS GIANT KING HANDS AND ROYAL ANGER.

Also, marry Shawn, boff Cory, kill Sean (sorry Sean - regicide is on my bucket list)

In all fairness, if old hosts are included, Lara would put all y'all in your place.

Random thoughts on the episode:

a) You guys are mean.

b) Playing a barbarian/fighter is not as easy as you people who prefer playing wimpy classes make it sound.
"You step into a room with 3 enemies - what do you do?" First off, where are the enemies? Second off, are any of them sissy mage types or cowardly sneaky rogue types? Knowing what and where your enemies are at all times is super vital to a fighter type. Because backstabs from cowards or magic missiles to the face from back row other cowards are not paths to longevity if you are a simple fighting person.

Tossing a fireball is boring. Also what keys do that? I am old, I can't remember my name half the time much less how to do lightning bolt.

Sneaky backstabber is too hard because I have no reflexes and I suck at stealth. And not very satisfying for me, in any case (I get that other people like this sort of dastardly behavior - different strokes, etc.).

Crying "Havoc!" and wading in, though, that's a good time. Simple, maybe, but still the best, for me.

c) As an older gamer (51), I don't care any more what people think. Sean is right, when I grew up, being a gaming enthusiast was heavily stigmatized and, to some degree, it still is for older people, at least among other older people. None of my peers understand why I play games. My wife vaguely tolerates my hobby, but she knew what she was getting into when we got married. when I meet someone for the first time, I don't lead with the fact that I play games but if it comes up in conversation, I am not ashamed to talk about it, any more than an avid golfer should be ashamed about talking about their hobby. At the end of the day, I don't care what random people think about me: my friends and loved ones accept me for who I am and that's all that matters to me. If someone think less of me just because I like playing stuff, their loss.

d) I've been playing games since the late 70s. Never played a Zelda or a Metroid (not even sure what this is although I hear things described as Metroid-like quite a bit - to me it just means probably not for me). Played 1-2 hours of FF7 and stopped because I hated it and I think that's the only JRPG I've ever really tried. I've hated platformers since Impossible Mission on the C64. GameCube was the first console I bought and that was for my kids but I have no affinity for any Nintendo anything. I know about Pokemon because of my kids, ditto Mario, ditto ditto Smash - and now my knowledge of Nintendo stuff is exhausted. I played those with my kids but I would never play them on my own (and haven't since they have moved on to being into other things) because I never found them all that fun, to be honest.

e) I had another great point but old, forgot, what are we doing?

tboon wrote:

c) As an older gamer (51), I don't care any more what people think. Sean is right, when I grew up, being a gaming enthusiast was heavily stigmatized and, to some degree, it still is for older people, at least among other older people.

At 45, I'm in about the same boat. My parents never got gaming at all, and they still think it's kind of juvenile for me to be involved. Luckily my wife and most of my friends are MIT twinkie* types so I have all the geek acceptance I need.

It seems to me that there's been a change between my generation and theirs that it's now OK to stay involved in things you did as a child. Used to be that only applied to more 'adult' things that a kid might start early like hunting and fishing, or 'creative' hobbies like sewing. It's probably not coincidental that those are very traditional (and gendered) activities. I wonder how much of this change is due to relative affluence- I don't think my parents could have afforded a video gaming habit as kids, but I could, and it's even easier now since my kids can just play my games.

It's a bit of a chicken and egg question- do we we have better adult games because adults are now willing to buy them, or are adults willing to keep gaming because the games are better?

I also haven't played any Zelda (my brother got his Nintendo not long before I moved to college, and I never had a console until buying the kids a PS4 last year) and never liked platformers. I used to like RTSs but just can't deal any more- dunno if it's too much to keep track of or if I've just moved on to other games.

* (As far as I know that's a term unique to MIT, referring to the interest penumbra of both "nerd" and "geek".)

I'm glad you read the list of the first few forum accounts, that's always interested me. I enjoy how early Mex appeared.

You folks are wrong. Luigi's Mansion is a fantastic game. it is the finest example in the genre of "games-that-take-place-in-the-mario-universe-involving-gimmicky-backpacks."

I just got an NES Classic through a wellness-plan giveaway at my work, and I owned almost none of the games on it. Not Castlevania, none of the Mario games except for Super Mario 1, no Final Fantasy, no Zelda, no Metroid. I played Super Mario 2 at a friends house, but never played SMB3.

I didn't own a SNES either. Nor a Genesis.

So don't ever let anyone make you feel bad about missing the "seminal" games, your highness. I missed almost all of them, and look at me!

Err. Yeah!

ReleaseTheEvil wrote:

Re: Realistic Sword Fighting Game:

Chivalry: Medieval Warfare?

What about Mount & Blade? There's a sequel coming out eventually at some point...that I will probably mod so I can play a Western shooter or run around wielding lightsabers nine months after launch, but still.

Rat Boy wrote:
ReleaseTheEvil wrote:

Re: Realistic Sword Fighting Game:

Chivalry: Medieval Warfare?

What about Mount & Blade? There's a sequel coming out eventually at some point...that I will probably mod so I can play a Western shooter or run around wielding lightsabers nine months after launch, but still.

I wasn't that impressed with the Gamescom footage i saw. I still consider Chivalry as more technical with the actual combat and of course definitely out done by For Honor as well.

I wish For Honor was more of a successor to M&B rather than a multiplayer focused game. Bums me out every time I hear about it.

The blood was freshly running from Shawn and Sean's faces as they lay unconscious near each other when they fell. They went after each other first, some say out of rage, some say out of a boilerplate of things that pile up from years of being friends. But in reality, it was fear.

Fear of Allen. As soon as the buzzer sounded Allen's eyes went bloodshot as a terrifying smile crept over his face. He lashed out at the closest to him. Poor, unfortunate Julian never saw it coming. He was cold cocked and blacked out immediately. Cory began to dash away at the sight, but Allen feeds off of fear, and ran for him.

Allen took Cory down like a predatory beast, his nails digging in as he smashed his own head into Cory's repeatedly. Allen stood over his opponents, all on the ground, and cackled maniacally.

"I win! I wiiiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnn!!!" Allen shouted, the blood streaming down his face.

"Not quite."

Allen turned to see Amanda get up from where she was seated at the edge of the room.

"Now apologize," she said.

I'm here for you guys not being able to tell the difference between Sniper Elite/Sniper Ghost Warrior/and Ghost Recon. I also don't particularly care if I got any or all of that wrong.

I've also never played a Zelda game or a Metroid. I did play Darksiders for a while, but I got bored. It isn't some kind of principle at this point, I've just never really had a Nintendo console other than the Wii I was given recently. I'm always interested in the new Nintendo because they seem fascinating, but the importers in this country are the Apple importers, which means similar levels of price gouging, and low stock levels.

I've learned the hard way to avoid some critically acclaimed titles, because no matter how good they may be, puzzle platformers are just not my bag.