Bee Keeping

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None of those are really a concern for me here:

Hives are not that noisy. Most often compared to a cat purring, refrigerator compressor, or a fan. With only one or two hives and you have any distance between houses it will be barely noticeable. The biggest issue with neighbors and bees is probably swimming pools. Bees are incredibly efficient. They will go to the closest source of water whether it is a dogs bowl, animal watering device, or a swimming pool. If a swimming pool is the closest source, your neighbors will start to complain of all the drowned bees in the pool filter. While it may sound like a jerk move, frankly it doesn't so much matter about the neighbors as long as you are following all applicable laws. That doesn't mean you shouldn't bee considerate of your neighbors, or inform them to what you are doing. Just that if they say "well i don't want you to have bees", it doesn't really matter.

The way the hives are designed are not really "poke with a stick" friendly. There is no way they could get a stick into it to damage the comb. If they start to go at the hive vigorously with a stick, they will quickly learn that the bees will have an issue. I am ok with that in regards to my kids and any other kids on my in laws property. It will be a very valuable life lesson.

While I will have my hive at my in laws 3+ acres with a large garden, fresh water, and lots of country in every direction. Urban beekeeping is a great thing. Many cities are loosening their restrictions on bees because of the benefits they are finding with having a beekeeping population. For example New York City, one of the largest concrete jungles out there, in 2010 ended their ban on beekeeping. Now according to Wikipedia even some of their biggest hotels have Hives. Once again this is a know your local laws type of situation.

BushPilot wrote:
Igneus wrote:

A third way to get bees, is a swarm. Which is exactly what it sounds like. You catch a wild (presumably the best at wintering) group of bees that are looking for a home. I am not doing this. While i hear it is fun, and easy-ish. I am not ready to poop my pants while handling a wild swarm of bees.

A swarm sounds a lot worse than it is. They are remarkably docile while they are just hanging around waiting for the scouts to return. I've only collected a couple, and it pretty much consisted of: (1) place empty box under bees, (2) shake the tree or whatever they're hanging in, and watch the big ball of bees fall into the box, (3) put lid on box, (4) receive profuse thanks from nearby homeowner, (5) take bees back to base and set them up in an empty colony, (6) profit. OK, I make it sound easy, but I would never try it if I hadn't done it a couple of times with an experienced beekeeper first. This is not the way to get your start.

Yeah that is what I hear. But for my start, no thanks. I am not that comfortable with bees yet to be shaking a branch full of them.

Bee Time Fun Time! Where you are given a random bit of information about bees! *

“Well," said Pooh, "what I like best," and then he had to stop and think. Because although Eating Honey was a very good thing to do, there was a moment just before you began to eat it which was better than when you were, but he didn't know what it was called.”
― A.A. Milne, Winnie-the-Pooh

Bears do not go after hives for honey. The go after them for the larvae. To a bear, comb with bee larvae is a delicious sweet treat. They have often left honey combs alone, just as often though the act of getting to the larvae destroys the honey combs.

*Remember all information given is at best well sourced, at worse pulled out of thin air because I thought I remembered hearing it from somewhere. Citations may bee needed, but will rarely bee given. I will never try to actively deceive you about bees.**

**That is exactly what someone who is trying to deceive you would say.

Well its time to Drone on about bees again.

The Drone bee. The males in a matriarchal society. Drones have a very specific purpose. Once they are used they are done. The begin life as an unfertilized egg. They contain the genetics of the queen and try to pass those genetics on to other colonies. Drones are also bigger then the workers and they do not sting. The drones whole job is to mate. They fly to a drone congregating area, and try to get it on with a queen while in flight. This act kills them by ripping out their sex organ. They live to die in the "service" of a queen.

It brings to mind a club that is just filled with dudes. All of them trying to hit on the one or two girls there.

Even if a drone doesn't mate they will be kicked out of the hive come fall.

I was told that drones can't even feed themselves and are not capable of collecting nectar. They are truly sex salves.

BushPilot wrote:

sex salves.

That's what I need afterward, too.

Mixolyde wrote:
BushPilot wrote:

sex salves.

That's what I need afterward, too.

Yikes! It was a typo: a mere slip of the finger. Perhaps that's what's causing your trouble too? Either way, I think you're doing it wrong...

BushPilot wrote:
Mixolyde wrote:
BushPilot wrote:

sex salves.

That's what I need afterward, too.

Yikes! It was a typo: a mere slip of the finger. Perhaps that's what's causing your trouble too? Either way, I think you're doing it wrong...

Well I could see why bees might need some. I mean they do get their junk ripped off.

Providing there is some nice weather this weekend, I will be assembling the hive. I will take pictures if I can.

Not sure how big the pictures show up as. So I hid them to save scrolling space. Overall took me a couple hours for the assembly. Need to do a bit of finish assembly, after I stain/finish it. Things like the Plexiglas window and window cover (that big hole on the side), screen for the bottom. Overall I am pretty satisfied with how it came out.

Spoiler:

IMAGE(http://i.imgur.com/ZGJoCQY.jpg)
Got all the parts together

IMAGE(http://i.imgur.com/trx6Ook.jpg)
The body of the hive

IMAGE(http://i.imgur.com/fQpWXsP.jpg)
Putting together the roof

IMAGE(http://i.imgur.com/ZlWtbDN.jpg)
Roof Frame on body

IMAGE(http://i.imgur.com/6K922e1.jpg)
95% assembled

IMAGE(http://i.imgur.com/hDR3BeO.jpg)
With top bars in place

Got the picture links working, but here is the link to the imgur album.

Awesome!

Nice work!

Apparently removing wild bees from urban sites is a thing, hopefully you can score a free colony with professional help.

Bfgp wrote:

Nice work!

Apparently removing wild bees from urban sites is a thing, hopefully you can score a free colony with professional help.

Yeah Swarm removal is pretty common. Generally they provide healthier bees too. I will not be doing that. You have to be able to respond on a moments notice once the keeper has it. Otherwise the bees are higher risk to abscond.

That's a good looking hive! As someone interested in getting into the bee game, I'm curious how you decided on that particular hive?

I imagine you considered the flow hive. As I understand it, there are some strong opinions out there in both the pro and con camps on the design. I've read articles from both sides, and it seems to me that many of the arguments against boil down to folks not liking change. I'd be interested to hear your take.

OldMud wrote:

That's a good looking hive! As someone interested in getting into the bee game, I'm curious how you decided on that particular hive?

I imagine you considered the flow hive. As I understand it, there are some strong opinions out there in both the pro and con camps on the design. I've read articles from both sides, and it seems to me that many of the arguments against boil down to folks not liking change. I'd be interested to hear your take.

I did a lot of research. I mean a lot of research before I decided to go with a top bar hive (TBH). What I concluded is, A hive is an artificial construct to encourage bees to build in a way that satisfies my desires. Other than going out and knocking down a wild hive there is no 100% natural process. So Is one hive better than another? Probably not, and that includes the flow. The Flow Hive seems to be just a specialized Langstroth Hive. Once again is the Langstroth Hive the best for the bees? Probably not, due to the types of adjustments to the bees way of living to make it so the Langstroth is a such a high honey yield hive. Which is the whole purpose of that hive, to make lots of honey. That being said there are certain aspects that are more bee friendly, and better for what I want which keeps me away from the Flow.

Aspect 1: Plastics. To me this is the most important thing and the reason I will not use a Flow hive. Langtroth hives mostly use foundations. Foundation is the premade comb shape found on the frames. It regulates where and how bees build their combs. They have no say in the size of the cell. That is not saying you have to use them, but mostly they do. And to keep costs down and honey yield up the most prevalent are plastic foundations, they can also be made of wax while any bee person will tell you the bees seem to prefer wax foundations they are a lot more expensive. The Flow Hive has to use plastic foundations. It is a key component to how they function. So there is concern about plastic particulates in the heat of the summer. I do not want to worry about plastics, nor do I want to worry about the cost of foundations. An additional expense and worry is storage, and the things that storing foundations cause you to worry about (basically lots of types of pests, not something to go into now).

Aspect 2: Wax. So on plastic frames bees use their wax to cover it up and build on it. Well what if we just take it out and go foundationless. What does that leave us. Wax, lots of it, in the form of drawn comb (comb that the bees make is drawn comb). Bees wax is a great product. Lots of benefits to us. When I harvest my honey I will also be harvesting the wax with it if i use some from new drawn comb. So not only will I have the honey as a product but the wax as well if I am smart about how I process. Also what is the purpose of the wax in a hive? It is a filter for toxins. As bees do their things they are able to shed certain toxins and instead of it going into the bees and honey, it goes into the wax. Which helps the bees, and also why you want to harvest out black comb.

Aspect 3: Hands on. From what I read some people go into the Flow, saying all I need to do is this and BAM honey. Well if you go at it like that you are dumb. It takes work, the Flow takes one aspect and tries to make it a little easier. Thats great. Reduces the need for extractors and some other expensive equipment that backyard keepers are going to have very limited access to. Well with the TBH I will not need that stuff anyway. I will also be able to better tell with drawn comb if the honey is ripe for harvest. Just because there is honey there doesn't mean its ready. Also the opposite is true as well, in the Flow if you end up waiting to long and it crystallizes well you wont be harvesting easily. In the TBH it wont really change how I harvest. Another part of the hands on, is with the TBH management I move around combs and bars. I don't have to add boxes, with the lifting and switching things out. The trade off with the ease of the Langstroth (and by extension Flow) is that the TBH will take a little extra hive management. I don't mind that.

I am sure there are some other things. Just I can't think of it right now. As far as what hive should someone get. Go with what suites your needs. The TBH suites mine.

I appreciate your response; you've obviously done your homework! The use of plastic in the flow hive gave me pause as well. I've got a lot more to learn before I'm ready to get started. Luckily, our local park district hosts beekeeping workshops during the summer which I am sure will be invaluable.

Really looking forward to following your progress!

OldMud wrote:

I appreciate your response; you've obviously done your homework! The use of plastic in the flow hive gave me pause as well. I've got a lot more to learn before I'm ready to get started. Luckily, our local park district hosts beekeeping workshops during the summer which I am sure will be invaluable.

Really looking forward to following your progress!

For some its not a concern. It really is one of those "to each their own" kind of things.

I seem to come off as "Flow bad, ughh ughh listen to me!"

But really I dont mean to be. I have little to no idea what I am doing. I am just learning. From what I have learned and what I know about the world, I am trying to use as little plastic as possible. If you have 50 hives and are trying to make a living off of honey. Then man I can see how the Flow would be a great idea to help production.

To be completely honest, if I was to start this whole process over again, I would probably use a Langstroth hive, foundation-less though. It seems as if there are so many more resources for that then TBH hives. I am committed though.

Even though I have nothing useful to say, I enjoy this thread very much.

Malor wrote:

Even though I have nothing useful to say, I enjoy this thread very much.

That is very useful. Means I am not just "p***ing in the wind" with this thread. Originally I was concerned that it was a waste of time and nobody would be interested in this process, but I have been very excited that there has been as much interest as there is. If it helps someone else to decide "hey this schmuck can do it, I can do it too" then even better, or the opposite as well "hey this sounds like way more hassle than its worth, I am not doing it" thats good too.

With that in mind. Does anyone have anything about bees/keeping they want to know? Otherwise I will just continue on with my ramblings about things as I think of them. Sometime soon I will also make my definitive new keeper need list. To include recommended reading and gear. By definitive I mean that it is really up for change at any moment and is in no way definitive.

Bee Time Fun Time! Where you are given a random bit of information about bees! *

NASA spokesperson - In reference to a Hive in 1984 that went on a space trip where the bees wouldn't poop. “just as clean as a pin.”

For the most part bees don't poop in the hive. They go on cleansing flights. In which they leave the hive with the specific purpose of doing their duty. If possible they will hold it in for several days until they can take this cleansing flight. As was the case in the 1984 comb experiment on the Challenger (hey look an actual reference to something!). Where they apparently held it in for the 7 days the flight lasted. The bees also seemed to of adapted to the zero gravity and built their comb. All in all the space stuff is pretty cool, but we are here to talk about bee poop.
Now the queen doesn't leave the hive other than to have sex with suicidal drones. So she poops in the hive, but her attendants carry it on out. Now they babies, they poop. That is why old comb gets black. As bees use the comb they will reuse it. The larvae goes into the comb,eats and gets bigger, poops and comes out. Then that waste is just built over, and built over again. The cell gets slightly smaller every time. Eventually you get black comb. It has all of the castings and feces and all other junk in it. Then you can take the comb and melt it down, and filter all the junk out of it (slumgum). After a bunch of filtering the poop out, we end up rubbing it on our face in products like Burts Bees Lotion/Lip Balm/anything.
Now that slumgum, is going to always be waxy, no mater how much melting and filtering. With enough wax you can get some pretty big bricks of slumgum. Now you have to be very careful with it, as wax is a great fuel. Slumgum is an AMAZING fire starter. All of the wax poop and junk act like the wick of a beeswax candle and can be lit pretty easily. Including during the whole refining process. So remember the next time you use a beeswax product, there was at one point poop mixed in, and probably little micro particles of it still.

*Remember all information given is at best well sourced, at worse pulled out of thin air because I thought I remembered hearing it from somewhere. Citations may bee needed, but will rarely bee given. I will never try to actively deceive you about bees.**

**That is exactly what someone who is trying to deceive you would say.

That's some really cool info, keep it coming!

The bit about microparticulates of bee poop is kinda funny when I think of how honey was once ingested by all the workers so we are eating bee vomit when we consume honey.

Mmmhhhhhmmm delicious, sweet, golden, bee vomit. Next bee time fun time will be all about honey.

Growing up spending weekends and summers working on a farm, the idea of people being sensitive about *bee poop* is hilarious. Try mucking out a dairy barn with a hose, shovel and broom. That'll adjust your tolerances.

Bees are awesome.

Bee Time Fun Time! Where you are given a random bit of information about bees! *

“The keeping of bees is like the direction of sunbeams.”
― Henry David Thoreau
Honey! Part 1

The modern concept of keeping bees is really with one main result. Honey! As discussed earlier honey bees are not native to the US. They were brought over by early settlers and as insects are want to do, they promptly went out and reproduced in the wild. This product they make, is really a miracle item. But what is it?

Simply put honey is an insects food source, produced to be consumed from the what is commonly referred to as a honey bee (of which there are many). From my understanding it is the only insect produced food source that humans also eat. It consists of plant nectar that has added enzymes produced by the bees (bee vomit), that is then dehydrated by the bees through fanning. There are as many varieties of honey as there are honey bees and plant combinations. Most time though honey is a mix of different nectar. Bees after all don't really care about what plant the nectar is from as long as they have nectar to eat. That doesn't say they don't have a preference, it means that their #1 priority is to eat. When you find a varietal honey (clover, wildflower, alfalfa, etc.) it is from harvesting during certain plants nectar flows. Or when bees have been placed in a high concentration area of a certain plant. During a good flow there is an abundance of honey, and taking (stealing) it from the hive isn't detrimental if the hive is properly managed. Now if the nectar flow is not strong in an area you could starve the bees, and you may need to supplement the nectar with sugar water. There is a lot of debate as to if this is good for the bees, but most agree it is at least better then letting them starve.

Now what makes honey special. One thing is, it is one of the few foods that in its edible state it can keep almost indefinitely. It depends on how it is sealed. You may have heard about honey being found in tombs and still being edible, its true. What gives it this magical property. Mostly it is the sugar, as sugar is "hygroscopic" which basically it means it absorbs moisture into it from the surrounding area. Dry sugar should also last for a long time because of this. Moisture is needed to breed bacteria and nastiness and that is what causes things to go bad. Combined with this enzymes from the bees brake down the nectar into glucose (sugar) and hydrogen peroxide (small amounts). Well what is hydrogen peroxide (HP) used for commonly? To disinfect things. That small amount HP helps to keep stuff from living in the honey. Another aspect is its PH balance. If i remember correctly a PH of 7 is neutral. Things less then 7 is acidic and honey has a PH around 3.5-4.5. That is pretty acidic and further discourages growth of nastiness. Honey from the store has been pasteurized and filtered to an incredible degree which takes out additional impurities and leaves you with a very clean honey. While it will have a "best if used by" date store bought honey will last an incredible amount of time. Raw honey (strained to get rid of large particles but unpasteurized or filtered) has bits of pollen, enzymes, small particulates of wax. Due to the so called "impurities" raw honey can go bad faster. One thing to clarify is that honey that has hardened or crystallized is not bad. It is just a natural state of honey. One thing I keep saying about honey not going bad is "if properly stored". Remember honey is hygroscopic? So it wants to pull moisture in any way it can. If your container is not air tight, it will take it right out of the air. This dilutes the properties of honey and encourages bacteria growth, it will cause honey to go bad.

Whew, that was a lot. I am going to further talk about honey next time, probably.

*Remember all information given is at best well sourced, at worse pulled out of thin air because I thought I remembered hearing it from somewhere. Citations may bee needed, but will rarely bee given. I will never try to actively deceive you about bees.**

**That is exactly what someone who is trying to deceive you would say.

Most time though honey is a mix of different nectar. Bees after all don't really care about what plant the nectar is from as long as they have nectar to eat. That doesn't say they don't have a preference, it means that their #1 priority is to eat. When you find a varietal honey (clover, wildflower, alfalfa, etc.) it is from harvesting during certain plants nectar flows. Or when bees have been placed in a high concentration area of a certain plant.

[...]

Whew, that was a lot. I am going to further talk about honey next time, probably.

Are you planning to plant nectar-producing plants in your yard, or are you just going to rely on the bees being able to find sufficient nectar in your neighborhood? How far will bees fly in search of nectar? How much nectar is needed to sustain a hive (with a surplus), and what acreage of flowering plants is needed to produce that much?

I'd say it is based on neighbourhood flora; quick googling suggests a bee visits 50-100 flowers before returning to the hive. Unless you live on huge acreage dedicated to flowers, it would be impossible to sustain a hive.

Also, this info makes a lot more sense as to honey flavour. The last year or two, we've purchased unfiltered and unpasteurized honey from a wholesaler and we always aim for their orange blossom variety. It sells for 50% more than their usual stock but it's so worth it as the honey has a beautiful citrus scent and flavour, it's almost like eating marmalade.

Malor wrote:

Even though I have nothing useful to say, I enjoy this thread very much.

+1